Is Zetterberg a Hall of Fame player?

[SuperScript29]

The difference being Kariya at least for a while carried the true superstar and next big thing aura.

So we go by auras now?

 

[LateSleeper]

So we go by auras now?

Yes please.

 

[Regal]

So we go by auras now?

Reputation goes a long way. Kariya was considered a top 5ish forward for 5 years. He was probably a little overrated due to Canada's lack of high end forwards entering the league at the time, but that reputation sticks.

Though I think Zetterberg benefits similarly as his reputation in the playoffs and his peak ability tended to push him higher in player rankings in years where he wasn't as good in the regular season.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Are people seriously debating this? He was a fantastic player from 05-14, was good his last 4 seasons and has the hardware as well. He is getting in 100%.

Triple gold club (WC gold, Olympics gold and Stanley Cup)
Conn Smythe 07/08 playoffs.
Most points and goals in the playoffs in 2007/2008 and scored the clinching goal in the finals.
Reg season:1082 games-960 points
Playoffs: 137 games-120 points
5 time top 10 in Selke voting, two time top 4.

If people think Marleau is getting in and Zetterberg isnt i dont know what to say....

 

[SuperScript29]

Reputation goes a long way. Kariya was considered a top 5ish forward for 5 years. He was probably a little overrated due to Canada's lack of high end forwards entering the league at the time, but that reputation sticks.

Though I think Zetterberg benefits similarly as his reputation in the playoffs and his peak ability tended to push him higher in player rankings in years where he wasn't as good in the regular season.

If reputation is what helped Kariya get in, I don't think Zetterberg needs to worry much then. At his peak he was among the best two-way forwards in the league, amazing in the playoffs, a team captain, and he actually has some hardware and offensive numbers to go along with it. I will be shocked if he won't get in.

 

[RedWingzz]

Yes. 960 points, 1 Cup, 1 Smythe. Excellent 2-way player, excellent leader, solid international success as well.

I'm biased, but I think he's worthy.

 

[JackSlater]

I think that he will. Middling to low end entry, but deserving. Has the hardware and name value.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I don't think Gainey should be in.

But at least his peak was in a different era that was harder to compare with the next-crop.

The HoF isn't just for great offense. There's an entire other half of the game that teams have to play, and Gainey was elite-level at that part of it so much that he spent much of his ice time having to play against the league's best.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

He's in the Elias and Hossa tier.

I'd put him above Hossa, and I think Hossa is going in within a couple years of being eligible.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

The HoF isn't just for great offense. There's an entire other half of the game that teams have to play, and Gainey was elite-level at that part of it so much that he spent much of his ice time having to play against the league's best.

Sure.

Do you think John Madden deserves to be in the Hall?

If a defensive forward who brings pedestrian levels of offense is inducted into the Hall of Fame, for being elite defensively, then you're opening the door for letting in a plethora of other defensive forwards in as well. Especially the ones who were blessed to play on stacked teams with superior offensive players.


John Madden, Mike Peca, Kris Draper, Jere Lehtinen, Guy Carobonneau, Craig Ramsay, Dirk Graham, Ryan Kesler, Craig McTavish.

Sorry man, I just don't see why Gainey should be in while a lot of other guys I listed before have similar resumes aren't in the Hall (nor should they be).

I get it that Gainey played for the illustrious dynasty era Habs, and that comes with a lot of mystique, but several of those other guys were instrumental in winning multiple cups as well, and they're not in the conversation for the Hall either (nor should they be)..

Gainey was the defensive specialist on a team that had Guy Lafleur, Pete Mahovlich, Guy Lapointe, Jacques Lemaire, Serge Savard, Larry Robinson, and was backstopped by Ken Dryden.




Sorry, but I can't help but view him as the Kris Draper / John Madden of his era.

 

[kilowatt]

Are people seriously debating this? He was a fantastic player from 05-14, was good his last 4 seasons and has the hardware as well. He is getting in 100%.

Triple gold club (WC gold, Olympics gold and Stanley Cup)
Conn Smythe 07/08 playoffs.
Most points and goals in the playoffs in 2007/2008 and scored the clinching goal in the finals.
Reg season:1082 games-960 points
Playoffs: 137 games-120 points
5 time top 10 in Selke voting, two time top 4.

If people think Marleau is getting in and Zetterberg isnt i dont know what to say....

interesting comparison: if kopitar retired tomorrow, do we think he gets in?

1003 gp, 312 goals, 888 points
two stanley cups, leading scorer in the playoffs both years
two selke trophies

do guys like zetterberg, marleau, and kopitar get into the hall of fame or the hall of really really good?

kopitar still has an eight year contract though, so i guess we’ll see what happens.

 

[MLSE]

...Okay, I'm a Red Wing fan and I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel like there was this one other guy...

Are you really a wings fan then because you would know he was their top shutdown guy in those back to back Finals runs while putting up the most points. Not Datsyuk. Lidstrom? Z got the conn Smyth in their win and probably would have got another one (could debate Lidstrom, maybe Franzen but Z was an absolute terror those 2 playoff runs)

Or my bad are you insinuating Malkin? I mean I don't want to debate that, I'd give you that but all I'd say to that was Crosby was on his way to that Conn Smyth before Z got a hold of him ( 1 g 2 a in 7 games)

 

[MLSE]

I think the fact that a lot of people here are debating whether defensive forwards should get into the Hall or not is a huge sign of respect to how good Z was defensively.

He was so good defensively we argue 2 way players and overlook he outperformed Datsyuk offensively their playoff careers while being their top shutdown guy during their biggest runs. Crosby was treated like a little boy in the 08 and 09 finals because of Z.

Datsyuk: 157gp 42g 71a 113p (0.72 ppg)
Zetterberg: 137gp 57g 63a 120p (0.88 ppg)

 

[Albatros]

interesting comparison: if kopitar retired tomorrow, do we think he gets in?

1003 gp, 312 goals, 888 points
two stanley cups, leading scorer in the playoffs both years
two selke trophies

do guys like zetterberg, marleau, and kopitar get into the hall of fame or the hall of really really good?

kopitar still has an eight year contract though, so i guess we’ll see what happens.

Kopitar is in already, he brought two cups to LA.

 

[WesMcCauley]

interesting comparison: if kopitar retired tomorrow, do we think he gets in?

1003 gp, 312 goals, 888 points
two stanley cups, leading scorer in the playoffs both years
two selke trophies

do guys like zetterberg, marleau, and kopitar get into the hall of fame or the hall of really really good?

kopitar still has an eight year contract though, so i guess we’ll see what happens.

Kopitar is a lock and Zetterberg i would also think is a lock. Both have been absolute elite in their primes and have the hardware.
Marleau hall of very good imo but will probably get in some day because of his longevity and because he ends his career in Toronto...

 

[Regal]

If reputation is what helped Kariya get in, I don't think Zetterberg needs to worry much then. At his peak he was among the best two-way forwards in the league, amazing in the playoffs, a team captain, and he actually has some hardware and offensive numbers to go along with it. I will be shocked if he won't get in.

I agree, but I still don't think Kariya is a great comparison for that. Like a Lindros or a Bure, he was a guy who didn't have the full career but was a huge figure and a fan favourite at his best. I don't think Zetterberg is in that category. But he's still so highly respected by those in the game he will get in.

 

[Zub]

I personally think he belongs.

 

[Voight]

How is this even a question? He's got a very good case, from 2005-2013 he was one of the best players in the league.

 

[3074326]

Yes. Amazing player all over the ice. For sure one of the best players in the league for a bunch of years, and was a playoff beast.

 

[Alex Jones]

The difference being Kariya at least for a while carried the true superstar and next big thing aura.

I mean, he was a true superstar and the next big thing before the injuries started. That 96-97 season he had would have won the Hart in a vast majority of years, Hasek was just at a level that no other goalie has ever achieved at that point in time.

 

[Alex Jones]

Are people seriously debating this? He was a fantastic player from 05-14, was good his last 4 seasons and has the hardware as well. He is getting in 100%.

Triple gold club (WC gold, Olympics gold and Stanley Cup)
Conn Smythe 07/08 playoffs.
Most points and goals in the playoffs in 2007/2008 and scored the clinching goal in the finals.
Reg season:1082 games-960 points
Playoffs: 137 games-120 points
5 time top 10 in Selke voting, two time top 4.

If people think Marleau is getting in and Zetterberg isnt i dont know what to say....

If this was the BBHOF he might be borderline, but HHOF lets lots of guys in, there's no way he doesn't make it.

 

[BurgoShark]

Sure.

Do you think John Madden deserves to be in the Hall?

If a defensive forward who brings pedestrian levels of offense is inducted into the Hall of Fame, for being elite defensively, then you're opening the door for letting in a plethora of other defensive forwards in as well. Especially the ones who were blessed to play on stacked teams with superior offensive players.


John Madden, Mike Peca, Kris Draper, Jere Lehtinen, Guy Carobonneau, Craig Ramsay, Dirk Graham, Ryan Kesler, Craig McTavish.

Sorry man, I just don't see why Gainey should be in while a lot of other guys I listed before have similar resumes aren't in the Hall (nor should they be).

I get it that Gainey played for the illustrious dynasty era Habs, and that comes with a lot of mystique, but several of those other guys were instrumental in winning multiple cups as well, and they're not in the conversation for the Hall either (nor should they be)..

Gainey was the defensive specialist on a team that had Guy Lafleur, Pete Mahovlich, Guy Lapointe, Jacques Lemaire, Serge Savard, Larry Robinson, and was backstopped by Ken Dryden.




Sorry, but I can't help but view him as the Kris Draper / John Madden of his era.

Lehtinen actually has a case IMO. 3 Selkes, a Stanley Cup, 875 and he went to the Olympic Games FIVE times and won four medals.

I always think International play shouldn’t carry more weight. Someone like Raimo Helminen who played very little NHL but 20+ years and 300+ games for his country should be considered.

 

[Ippenator]

He absolutely is. No question about it for me.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Sure.

Do you think John Madden deserves to be in the Hall?

When you find a number of elite players talking about how John Madden was so damn good defensively and made things so much more difficult for them when he was on the ice, get back to me. When you find Madden's first vote for end-of-season NHL All-Star, let me know as well

When you then find guys raving about Madden's leadership, presence, poise, and intangibles and how they saw him as a key part of the locker room and that everyone saw him sacrificing his talent for the good of the team and inspiring others to step it up and the deep respect they had for him, ... again, let me know.

If a defensive forward who brings pedestrian levels of offense is inducted into the Hall of Fame, for being elite defensively, then you're opening the door for letting in a plethora of other defensive forwards in as well. Especially the ones who were blessed to play on stacked teams with superior offensive players.

Again, the game of hockey is not all about offense. I didn't realize the Hockey Hall of Fame was only for offensive players and a handful of goalies, everyone else stay the hell out! If someone was truly outstanding on the defensive side of the game, why not find a spot for them?

Because they had "pedestrian levels of offense?" There are guys who piled up great offensive numbers who had pedestrian levels of defense; should we start shuffling those guys out of the HoF, too? Because I can name a dozen guys who were pretty crappy defensively but got into the HoF on offense and reputation and the excessive hype that went with it.

John Madden, Mike Peca, Kris Draper, Jere Lehtinen, Guy Carobonneau, Craig Ramsay, Dirk Graham, Ryan Kesler, Craig McTavish.

I've got bad news for you: Carbonneau should probably be in there and probably goes in down the road after the current backlog and older guys just retiring or about to retire get worked through. Lehtinen may well find his way in as well, especially after you consider his play in international tournaments. If Kesler's body hadn't given out, he'd probably be in the discussion too. [And I'm talking starting in 2012, not just recently.] Ramsay was [and still is] underappreciated, mainly because he played on Buffalo teams that were never top-tier and never went far. Peca is borderline.

Sorry man, I just don't see why Gainey should be in while a lot of other guys I listed before have similar resumes aren't in the Hall (nor should they be).

I get it that Gainey played for the illustrious dynasty era Habs, and that comes with a lot of mystique, but several of those other guys were instrumental in winning multiple cups as well, and they're not in the conversation for the Hall either (nor should they be).

Start naming them and how they were instrumental, I'll tell you why they're not in.

Gainey was the defensive specialist on a team that had Guy Lafleur, Pete Mahovlich, Guy Lapointe, Jacques Lemaire, Serge Savard, Larry Robinson, and was backstopped by Ken Dryden.

The fact that you mention him as a defensive specialist just helps make my point. he wasn't just a defensive specialist, he was the defensive specialist. Again, go read what other players who played against him had to say. They thought a hell of a lot more highly of him than you do.

Sorry, but I can't help but view him as the Kris Draper / John Madden of his era.

I think both of them were fairly decent defensive forwards, and neither one was half as good as Bob Gainey defensively.

There's a few reasons Bob Gainey landed on the NHL's "100 Greatest of All Time" list. You should read up to try and figure it out. Or, claim that hundreds of people who cover the sport and watched him play and played against him have no idea what they're talking about, and you know so much better from the comfort of your keyboard despite apparently having never watched him play at all.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

interesting comparison: if kopitar retired tomorrow, do we think he gets in?

1003 gp, 312 goals, 888 points
two stanley cups, leading scorer in the playoffs both years
two selke trophies

do guys like zetterberg, marleau, and kopitar get into the hall of fame or the hall of really really good?

kopitar still has an eight year contract though, so i guess we’ll see what happens.

I think Zetterberg goes to the HoF quicker than some here want to realize. [I have him as a lock to get in.]

Marleau has probably compiled enough numbers to get in, and drive the "he just accumulated stats" crowd crazy with howls of "this isn't the Hall of Statistics." I think if you've got 550+ goals, 1150+ points, and 1600+ regular season games, with much of your career - especially the prime part of it - played in an era where the league didn't average 6 goals per game, and all of that happened with missing a season and a half due to work stoppages, you've probably done enough to get in. [No, for anyone asking - Matt Cullen and his 1516 games played isn't enough to get in.]

Kopitar isn't a lock at the moment, and I can see where some would say he shouldn't even be under consideration. He spent a chunk of his career flying under the radar [and perhaps still does]; he's never going to get 100 points, but he also spent a decent part of his career playing in a defensively oriented system that required him to sacrifice offense for defense. [And, it got him 2 Cups - so I'm sure he's fine with that.] He's not going to be able to point to great international play with Slovenia to bolster his resume. But at 31, he's got time to get to 1000 points and go over 400 goals, and then see what happens from there.