Is now the time to deal JVR?

[Duffman955]

Move him now if the return is right. If not, wait until the trade deadline. Someone would love to pick him up then.

I'm hoping he's not a Leaf at the start of the 2016 season.

Ya who needs 60 point powerforward for 4mil.

What garbage. We only accept players below 5'11 150 lbs

 

[PuckMagi]

Move him now if the return is right. If not, wait until the trade deadline. Someone would love to pick him up then.

I'm hoping he's not a Leaf at the start of the 2016 season.

We just need to wait until someone starts to feel the heat.

Someone is going to start losing... their management will fear for their jobs... they'll look to make a trade to turn themselves around. Or there are going to be teams looking for that extra edge for whatever reason.

Whoever we end up icing this year... almost our entire team is available if the price is right.

Pretty much our whole roster except for Rielly is theoretically available. JVR, Kadri, Gardiner, Bernier, and Phaneuf are gonna require a very good return though.

 

[Swervin81]

I'm going to change my answer to a "no", simply because the trade market has completely crashed with the cap barely going up. It's a laughable buyer's market. I'd say other than Bozak and maybe Phaneuf (if no retention needed), don't sell anyone else off.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I'm going to change my answer to a "no", simply because the trade market has completely crashed with the cap barely going up. It's a laughable buyer's market. I'd say other than Bozak and maybe Phaneuf (if no retention needed), don't sell anyone else off.

honestly it looks a lot like the great depression, doesn't it?

 

[tooncesmeow]

honestly it looks a lot like the great depression, doesn't it?

Milan Lucic on a 1-year contract just got a 13th overall pick and a prospect in one of the deepest drafts.

Saad got a 2nd line center, a really good prospect, and another prospect and a pick.

A basically holdout O'Reilly managed to get 3 quality prospects who will all likely be NHL players.

Can we stop pretending? Leafs got near-fleeced on Kessel but.. I wouldn't say its a buyer's market, and it definitely wasn't a buyer's market last year's trade deadline.

At the very least, next year's TDL will probably have even higher prices since a lot of teams will have 1sts/2nds available.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Milan Lucic on a 1-year contract just got a 13th overall pick and a prospect in one of the deepest drafts.

Saad got a 2nd line center, a really good prospect, and another prospect and a pick.

A basically holdout O'Reilly managed to get 3 quality prospects who will all likely be NHL players.

Can we stop pretending? Leafs got near-fleeced on Kessel but.. I wouldn't say its a buyer's market, and it definitely wasn't a buyer's market last year's trade deadline.

At the very least, next year's TDL will probably have even higher prices since a lot of teams will have 1sts/2nds available.

never mind

 

[Swervin81]

Milan Lucic on a 1-year contract just got a 13th overall pick and a prospect in one of the deepest drafts.

Saad got a 2nd line center, a really good prospect, and another prospect and a pick.

A basically holdout O'Reilly managed to get 3 quality prospects who will all likely be NHL players.

Can we stop pretending? Leafs got near-fleeced on Kessel but.. I wouldn't say its a buyer's market, and it definitely wasn't a buyer's market last year's trade deadline.

At the very least, next year's TDL will probably have even higher prices since a lot of teams will have 1sts/2nds available.

Look at how little UFA's are getting this year conpared to the salary jumps and inflations we've seen this year. It's definitely a buyer's market with the cap staying put and teams unable to break the bank on FA's or take on gigantic contracts. All the guys listed above either have short term left or are RFA's and thus cost controlled. Kessel's the only really big contract that's been moved.

 

[Einzakin]

I think we should trade JVR as well. He's got high value right now with his 30 30 production and great contract. He could fetch a first, great prospect, and something else. We are in rebuild and JVR is 26. It really should be done, we are preparing to win when he's 29-30.

 

[Nithoniniel]

The cap not increasing makes big contracts really hard to move, but it can also make a JVR-sized contract even more valuable. It essentially increases the effect of the contract part of the players value, either positively (JVR) or negatively (Kessel).

It's fairly obvious in my mind. When the cap becomes more of a problem, teams will be more inclined to get good contract value players rather than the best available player. JVR offers just that.

 

[thewave]

Look at how little UFA's are getting this year conpared to the salary jumps and inflations we've seen this year. It's definitely a buyer's market with the cap staying put and teams unable to break the bank on FA's or take on gigantic contracts. All the guys listed above either have short term left or are RFA's and thus cost controlled. Kessel's the only really big contract that's been moved.

Lucic isn't cost controlled at all he basically gets 7m next time around. Saad is a little different. Thing is the Leafs got fleeced. He is right about that. We traded him so they could say hey look its on. We are actually doing something other than drafting 160lbs guys...

Thing is that yesterday I thought about it and I don't give a crap if they trade the remaining roster for a 7th. I hope these little guys make it and Kap is top 6 and Harrington a 4D. I hope Hunters hunches are right on the money. Time will tell, oh and the other bright side in this is that we will finish lower in the rankings without Kessel. That's like trading up if you think about it. Moving 10-5 costs a late 1st so we probably locked that.

 

[Swervin81]

Lucic isn't cost controlled at all he basically gets 7m next time around. Saad is a little different. Thing is the Leafs got fleeced. He is right about that. We traded him so they could say hey look its on. We are actually doing something other than drafting 160lbs guys...

Thing is that yesterday I thought about it and I don't give a crap if they trade the remaining roster for a 7th. I hope these little guys make it and Kap is top 6 and Harrington a 4D. I hope Hunters hunches are right on the money. Time will tell, oh and the other bright side in this is that we will finish lower in the rankings without Kessel. That's like trading up if you think about it. Moving 10-5 costs a late 1st so we probably locked that.

Lucic falls under short term.

 

[The Apologist]

Ya who needs 60 point powerforward for 4mil.

What garbage. We only accept players below 5'11 150 lbs

JVR is in no way a power forward and I am fairly certain he wont be a 60 pt forward either.

The free agent market is brutal this year. You gotta think someone like STL or CGY could use a 4M top 6 winger.

Just another part of the core that needs to go asap if you ask me.

 

[Celly Hard]

You never know, a team that misses out on FA's this offseason may pay up for JVR. He is a really attractive asset to have considering the skill compared to his contract. Absolute steal for any contending team.

the types of deals I would hope we can get for him would be structured around top prospect + 1st.

For example:

Fabbri
2016 1st

Pastrnak
2016 1st

 

[Mess]

You never know, a team that misses out on FA's this offseason may pay up for JVR. He is a really attractive asset to have considering the skill compared to his contract. Absolute steal for any contending team.

I don't believe the Leafs are shopping nor really intend to trade JVR myself.

Size is an issue with this team and James has that and his contract that would make him desirable to other teams also makes him desirable for the Leafs.

It would have to be an offer involving a #1C or #1D (potential or otherwise) to make the Leafs interested. IMO

 

[Celly Hard]

I don't believe the Leafs are shopping nor really intend to trade JVR myself.

Size is an issue with this team and James has that and his contract that would make him desirable to other teams also makes him desirable for the Leafs.

It would have to be an offer involving a #1C or #1D (potential or otherwise) to make the Leafs interested. IMO

I don't see anyone giving up a 1C or 1D for JVR. If we don't plan on contending in the next 3-6 years, don't you think it would be best to maximize our return on one of our best assets, as opposed to dealing him when he begins to regress or when we hand him a much richer contract?

 

[Jozay]

I mean, his value is only going to go down, without Kessel there to inflate his numbers. You can get a lot for JVR, at least 1 blue chipper. Difference between Kessel and Jvr is that he's much cheaper, and he doesnt have a ntc. Many teams can fit him in under the cap, so there should be a lot of teams interested. Id day go for it. But you need a package where you go "wow". And i think there is a team out there who might just do it.

 

[egd27]

What part of hockey is he really good at?

The part where you shoot the puck into the net.

Not as good as the other guy we just jumped for joy over unloading.

 

[Jozay]

Ya who needs 60 point powerforward for 4mil.

What garbage. We only accept players below 5'11 150 lbs

You think jvr can put up 60 pts without Kessel?

 

[morph]

Should have been packaged off to Pittsburg with Kessel to get a better return from Rutherford. But that opportunity was lost when Leafs let Kessel go for cheap.

Not possible.

Pittsburgh only has ~6 million in cap space now that they've taken on Kessel's contract and they still need to sign 4 more forwards.

JVR's cap hit is 4.25 million.

 

[The Apologist]

Not as good as the other guy we just jumped for joy over unloading.

And it's not just that. It seems that so many people love JVR for things he simply is not, or does not do.

He doesn't carry an offence. We have one guy left on the team that does, and in the limited time they played together JVR's stats were actually worse.

Which dispels myth number two, that he 'looked better' with Kadri. He wasn't. It actually goes to show pretty well that some people only see what they wanna see.

Myth three. He's a power forward. Look, he's big, that's about it. He doesn't use it at all. Its frustrating watching this hulking forward play smaller than Nazem, who is a freaking beanpole.

Myth four. He's better defensively. I have every Leaf game from last season on my pc. (Yes I am a sad sad person). I will challenge anyone who has a whole lot of spare time to sit through 20 games with me and explain to me where he is better defensively. He floats. He doesn't backcheck.

Myth five. He's young. He's 26 this year. A year and a half I believe younger than the old washed up dude we had to get rid of because he would be too old by the time we competed again.

Myth six. He cares. Dude checked out just as bad as anyone else last season. He tends to do it a lot, for large portions of the season. You know why nobody was talking about JVR last season? Nobody knew he was playing.

The only point I see people make that seems even remotely valid is his contract. He has a good one. Everything else about this guy points to a severe decline in 2016 that will probably kill any possible belief in any the above myths. Then we get nothing for him.

Look, I don't pretend to know what other GMs think or know like some on here, but if there is someone out there who thinks this guy is the solution to their problem and is willing to pay up, we have to take it or we will regret it.

 

[Purity*]

And it's not just that. It seems that so many people love JVR for things he simply is not, or does not do.

He doesn't carry an offence. We have one guy left on the team that does, and in the limited time they played together JVR's stats were actually worse.

Which dispels myth number two, that he 'looked better' with Kadri. He wasn't. It actually goes to show pretty well that some people only see what they wanna see.

Myth three. He's a power forward. Look, he's big, that's about it. He doesn't use it at all. Its frustrating watching this hulking forward play smaller than Nazem, who is a freaking beanpole.

Myth four. He's better defensively. I have every Leaf game from last season on my pc. (Yes I am a sad sad person). I will challenge anyone who has a whole lot of spare time to sit through 20 games with me and explain to me where he is better defensively. He floats. He doesn't backcheck.

Myth five. He's young. He's 26 this year. A year and a half I believe younger than the old washed up dude we had to get rid of because he would be too old by the time we competed again.

Myth six. He cares. Dude checked out just as bad as anyone else last season. He tends to do it a lot, for large portions of the season. You know why nobody was talking about JVR last season? Nobody knew he was playing.

The only point I see people make that seems even remotely valid is his contract. He has a good one. Everything else about this guy points to a severe decline in 2016 that will probably kill any possible belief in any the above myths. Then we get nothing for him.

Look, I don't pretend to know what other GMs think or know like some on here, but if there is someone out there who thinks this guy is the solution to their problem and is willing to pay up, we have to take it or we will regret it.

I can see you rustling a lot of jimmies with this post.

But truth be told a lot of what you said is true. JVR's defensive game can be downright painful to watch, he's a player who relies on his skill and finesse far more than his good size, at 26 years old he's definitely in the prime of his career, and we only have him locked up bargain for 3 more years. It just makes too much sense to deal him and sell high.

Oh, and the rabid Kessel hate you see on this board utterly blindsides people as to how much he elevated JVR's offensive game. Nobody wants to give Kessel credit for anything around here. More truth, Bozak, JVR and Lupul have all put up career years playing with him and I'm 100% sure Kadri would have if he got a full year with Kessel. It's both incredulous and ignorant to discredit Kessel with how much he's elevated his linemate's games over the year.

Seriously, sell high on JVR. I actually like JVR as a player but dealing him would be far better for our team in the long run. You're crazy if you think he's going to put up the same offensive totals without Kessel on the other wing. I'd be all down for keeping him this offseason then trading him at the deadline, but I'm afraid that the GM's will get a first-hand look at his game without Kessel.



Oh yeah, inb4 "Kessel fanboys" or whatever nonsensical poison the well argument you see spewed around here all the time everytime Kessel gets brought up.

 

[Gary Nylund]

And it's not just that. It seems that so many people love JVR for things he simply is not, or does not do.

He doesn't carry an offence. We have one guy left on the team that does, and in the limited time they played together JVR's stats were actually worse.

Which dispels myth number two, that he 'looked better' with Kadri. He wasn't. It actually goes to show pretty well that some people only see what they wanna see.

Myth three. He's a power forward. Look, he's big, that's about it. He doesn't use it at all. Its frustrating watching this hulking forward play smaller than Nazem, who is a freaking beanpole.

Myth four. He's better defensively. I have every Leaf game from last season on my pc. (Yes I am a sad sad person). I will challenge anyone who has a whole lot of spare time to sit through 20 games with me and explain to me where he is better defensively. He floats. He doesn't backcheck.

Myth five. He's young. He's 26 this year. A year and a half I believe younger than the old washed up dude we had to get rid of because he would be too old by the time we competed again.

Myth six. He cares. Dude checked out just as bad as anyone else last season. He tends to do it a lot, for large portions of the season. You know why nobody was talking about JVR last season? Nobody knew he was playing.

The only point I see people make that seems even remotely valid is his contract. He has a good one. Everything else about this guy points to a severe decline in 2016 that will probably kill any possible belief in any the above myths. Then we get nothing for him.

Look, I don't pretend to know what other GMs think or know like some on here, but if there is someone out there who thinks this guy is the solution to their problem and is willing to pay up, we have to take it or we will regret it.

I can see you rustling a lot of jimmies with this post.

But truth be told a lot of what you said is true. JVR's defensive game can be downright painful to watch, he's a player who relies on his skill and finesse far more than his good size, at 26 years old he's definitely in the prime of his career, and we only have him locked up bargain for 3 more years. It just makes too much sense to deal him and sell high.

Oh, and the rabid Kessel hate you see on this board utterly blindsides people as to how much he elevated JVR's offensive game. Nobody wants to give Kessel credit for anything around here. More truth, Bozak, JVR and Lupul have all put up career years playing with him and I'm 100% sure Kadri would have if he got a full year with Kessel. It's both incredulous and ignorant to discredit Kessel with how much he's elevated his linemate's games over the year.

Seriously, sell high on JVR. I actually like JVR as a player but dealing him would be far better for our team in the long run. You're crazy if you think he's going to put up the same offensive totals without Kessel on the other wing. I'd be all down for keeping him this offseason then trading him at the deadline, but I'm afraid that the GM's will get a first-hand look at his game without Kessel.

Oh yeah, inb4 "Kessel fanboys" or whatever nonsensical poison the well argument you see spewed around here all the time everytime Kessel gets brought up.

No jimmies rustled here. Two good posts that I completely agree with. I've said all along that if Kessel is traded, we better trade JVR as fast as we can right after.

 

[Daisy Jane]

No jimmies rustled here. Two good posts that I completely agree with. I've said all along that if Kessel is traded, we better trade JVR as fast as we can right after.

yup. I said that too.
i'm an equal opportunity "don't like you"-er

I don't think i have jimmies to be rustled though. that sounds like a boy thing.

 

[The CyNick]

Milan Lucic on a 1-year contract just got a 13th overall pick and a prospect in one of the deepest drafts.

Saad got a 2nd line center, a really good prospect, and another prospect and a pick.

Who was the "really good prospect" Dano? Rated the same as Harrington by HF

But continue on with the 'we got fleeced narrative'

 

[The CyNick]

Would be perfectly fine with trading JVR.