Is now the time to deal JVR?

[The_Chosen_One]

yup. I said that too.
i'm an equal opportunity "don't like you"-er

I don't think i have jimmies to be rustled though. that sounds like a boy thing.

You're more or less a dude ( at least spiritually) around these parts. LOL. :p

Anyhow, I am certainly no Kessel and would like to see JVR shipped out.

Swapping him for Jeff Skinner is what we need to consider. He's far more skilled than JVR, plays in traffic and Babcock will make sure he doesn't cut into the middle either.

In addition, I see him working much better with Kadri. We just need a finisher as a third linemate and the line could work really well. If required, we can put him on a separate line with Holland and have chemistry-building trial instead.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

People speak of JVR as if he's still 22 or something. He's 26 and for a team in a full rebuild, if you're going to move vets out, JVR should be one of them. His value will never be higher. Young+good contract+size etc, he's our most valued vet piece right now. I wouldn't be in a rush to move him but if someone comes along and is offering a blue chipper plus maybe other pieces, how would we turn that down?

 

[Man Bear Pig]

You're more or less a dude ( at least spiritually) around these parts. LOL. :p

Anyhow, I am certainly no Kessel and would like to see JVR shipped out.

Swapping him for Jeff Skinner is what we need to consider. He's far more skilled than JVR, plays in traffic and Babcock will make sure he doesn't cut into the middle either.

In addition, I see him working much better with Kadri. We just need a finisher as a third linemate and the line could work really well. If required, we can put him on a separate line with Holland and have chemistry-building trial instead.

Given Skinners health issues, that's a player I stay far away from.

 

[rojac]

You're more or less a dude ( at least spiritually) around these parts. LOL. :p

Why is Daisy spiritually a dude? Because she can talk intelligently about hockey? Is it your opinion that you can't really be a woman and talk intelligently about sports? That you have to be a man, at least in spirit, to do that?

I realize that you intended it as a joke, but, in my mind, we're well into into the 21st century and this kind of sexist bull **** should not exist.

 

[Mitchy]

It's a buyers market right now, so I don't think we would receive a good offer for him. On the flip-side, unless he changes his game a bit and hustles more, his production will almost surely drop without Kessel, which will lower his value.

 

[Crysis]

It's a buyers market right now, so I don't think we would receive a good offer for him. On the flip-side, unless he changes his game a bit and hustles more, his production will almost surely drop without Kessel, which will lower his value.

This guy is a former second overall pick who has lived up to the hype, albeit he had a bit of a slow start.

Guys like him don't come cheap even during a down year, I expect a bidding war come the trade deadline, minimum price to even be considered will be a top prospect + a first AND second rounder. That would be the value I would demand, anyways.

 

[The Apologist]

Why is Daisy spiritually a dude? Because she can talk intelligently about hockey? Is it your opinion that you can't really be a woman and talk intelligently about sports? That you have to be a man, at least in spirit, to do that?

I realize that you intended it as a joke, but, in my mind, we're well into into the 21st century and this kind of sexist bull **** should not exist.

Edit- nevermind

 

[The Apologist]

This guy is a former second overall pick who has lived up to the hype, albeit he had a bit of a slow start.

Guys like him don't come cheap even during a down year, I expect a bidding war come the trade deadline, minimum price to even be considered will be a top prospect + a first AND second rounder. That would be the value I would demand, anyways.

The hype on JVR was a soft, one way goal scoring winger?

 

[Trapper]

This guy is a former second overall pick who has lived up to the hype, albeit he had a bit of a slow start.

Guys like him don't come cheap even during a down year, I expect a bidding war come the trade deadline, minimum price to even be considered will be a top prospect + a first AND second rounder. That would be the value I would demand, anyways.

Reading this board you get the impression that JVR/Kadri/Rielly/Gardiner should just retire from hockey now. With Kessel gone they should just fold the team. Somehow JVR managed to get picked 2nd overall, score 40 points and 20 goals all before he got here.
Let's see what he can do. In another thread people are saying it's Kadri's time and he should do well under Babcock. Ok, let's see that too. Let's see how good a center he is with JVR. If JVR can't cut it, maybe Kadri couldn't either.

 

[Purity*]

Reading this board you get the impression that JVR/Kadri/Rielly/Gardiner should just retire from hockey now. With Kessel gone they should just fold the team. Somehow JVR managed to get picked 2nd overall, score 40 points and 20 goals all before he got here.
Let's see what he can do. In another thread people are saying it's Kadri's time and he should do well under Babcock. Ok, let's see that too. Let's see how good a center he is with JVR. If JVR can't cut it, maybe Kadri couldn't either.

That's a nice strawman and all but if you aren't willing to admit that the team's offense is definitely worse without Kessel I wouldn't see the point in arguing with you.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

I think JVR is at his max value, so I'd trade him. I'd even retain 50% of his salary, if the team acquiring him absolutely needed it.

 

[Trapper]

That's a nice strawman and all but if you aren't willing to admit that the team's offense is definitely worse without Kessel I wouldn't see the point in arguing with you.

Of course it's worse, how could it not be?
Take the leading scorer off any team and it's going to be worse.
The point is, now other people have to step up. Maybe people that were kept down the lineup.
If all you see is how are we going to survive, then there is no point arguing with you. We need by committee now, not waiting for one individual.

 

[Amadeus]

Winnipeg.

Josh Morrissey
1st 2016

 

[The Apologist]

Of course it's worse, how could it not be?
Take the leading scorer off any team and it's going to be worse.
The point is, now other people have to step up. Maybe people that were kept down the lineup.
If all you see is how are we going to survive, then there is no point arguing with you. We need by committee now, not waiting for one individual.

Or we could discuss the actual individual we are discussing. The one who has given zero indication that he is ever gonna be the player the JVR fan club is making him out to be.

 

[Crysis]

The hype on JVR was a soft, one way goal scoring winger?

You're right he didn't quite live up...checked his hockeys future profile...

"Talent Analysis

Van Riemsdyk is a big powerful winger who brings good speed to the table. He is a very complete talent."

He's still a top line big body winger that can put up 60 points with the right line mates. Still has plenty of value for a contending team.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Not now.

We just lost Kessel and to be honest, this will be one bad team next year.We replaced Kessel with a 32 year old fresh off an 8 goal year. JVR just became our top winger, so if you trade him, next year is over for sure. I say keep him till TD and if the team is stinking out the house then trade him at top value.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Why is Daisy spiritually a dude? Because she can talk intelligently about hockey? Is it your opinion that you can't really be a woman and talk intelligently about sports? That you have to be a man, at least in spirit, to do that?

I realize that you intended it as a joke, but, in my mind, we're well into into the 21st century and this kind of sexist bull **** should not exist.

There aren't as many women investing in the fanatic sports community as men. That's all.

The post was a mere joke. Isn't Toronto supposed to be the land of racialised poverty? I suppose we ought cracking on that arguably bigger fish.

 

[The Apologist]

You're right he didn't quite live up...checked his hockeys future profile...

"Talent Analysis

Van Riemsdyk is a big powerful winger who brings good speed to the table. He is a very complete talent."

He's still a top line big body winger that can put up 60 points with the right line mates. Still has plenty of value for a contending team.

My point was that he is not going to look like that guy at all this year. We dont have that teammate to carry him anymore. Instead well have a lazy, one dimension goal scorer who isnt scoring goals.

Hes not gonna have a Kessel to spoon feed him goals anymore.

Then what?

 

[The Apologist]

We just lost Kessel and to be honest, this will be one bad team next year.We replaced Kessel with a 32 year old fresh off an 8 goal year. JVR just became our top winger, so if you trade him, next year is over for sure. I say keep him till TD and if the team is stinking out the house then trade him at top value.

But that is the entire premise of the discussion. Hes at top value now (in theory, im not so sure other gms agree). After half a season of uninspired 30-40 pt hockey where hes minus 30 or whatever, what is his realistic value going to be?

 

[Trapper]

Or we could discuss the actual individual we are discussing. The one who has given zero indication that he is ever gonna be the player the JVR fan club is making him out to be.

The actual individual is going to have to step up now isn't he?
Let's see what he can do.
Management didn't trade him.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

You're right he didn't quite live up...checked his hockeys future profile...

"Talent Analysis

Van Riemsdyk is a big powerful winger who brings good speed to the table. He is a very complete talent."

He's still a top line big body winger that can put up 60 points with the right line mates. Still has plenty of value for a contending team.

He is a pretty powerful skater. It's difficult to argue that he isn't strong. Hell, Kessel is strong. The problem is that JVR doesn't play big. I don't see how he is a power forward at all.

 

[The Apologist]

The actual individual is going to have to step up now isn't he?
Let's see what he can do.
Management didn't trade him.

For how much longer exactly? Youre not suggesting that hes suddenly going to become the go to are you?
As for the last part, they didnt trade Bozak either..... Hope he steps up

 

[Crysis]

My point was that he is not going to look like that guy at all this year. We dont have that teammate to carry him anymore. Instead well have a lazy, one dimension goal scorer who isnt scoring goals.

Hes not gonna have a Kessel to spoon feed him goals anymore.

Then what?

I have faith that Babcock can work with him and help to maintain his trade value for the most part. I also don't under estimate the potential of Kadri and PA to put up points as a line as well if that's the first line.

I'm not too worried.

 

[Trapper]

For how much longer exactly? Youre not suggesting that hes suddenly going to become the go to are you?
As for the last part, they didnt trade Bozak either..... Hope he steps up

Are you saying JVR wouldn't be a top 6 forward without Kessel?
What he does with it is on him.
Do you think he has the ability and tell me why you don't think he will be looked upon as the go to guy? Or at least 1 of 3. Who is it? Komarov?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Who was the "really good prospect" Dano? Rated the same as Harrington by HF

But continue on with the 'we got fleeced narrative'

I like Harrington, but if he is rated the same as Dano then someone need to sit down and actually watch them.

Dano stepped into the NHL and played like a first liner last season, for 30 games. He's a complete package prospect with top line upside.

Harrington is an older prospect who could become a 4-5 D-man down the line.