Is Matt Murray Broken?

[wgknestrick]

Murray's numerous concussions may be catching up to him.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

"Does the Pittsburgh Penguins really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"



Does the Pittsburgh Penguins have a goaltending controversy? Matt Murray exposed and done?

 

[Empoleon8771]

"Does the Pittsburgh Penguins really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"



Does the Pittsburgh Penguins have a goaltending controversy? Matt Murray exposed and done?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Matt Murray with Buckley

Matt Murray with Bales

Broken

Murray kept the guy he wanted as his coach.

So I mean...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

"Does the Pittsburgh Penguins really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"



Does the Pittsburgh Penguins have a goaltending controversy? Matt Murray exposed and done?

What language is that?

43th.

 

[Khelandros]

Murray kept the guy he wanted as his coach.

So I mean...

Doesn't mean it was the right move. You'd think that Rutherford being a former goalie would look at this and wonder what the heck is going on.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Doesn't mean it was the right move. You'd think that Rutherford being a former goalie would look at this and wonder what the heck is going on.

Most if not all goalies, pick the goalie coach they are comfortable with. Murray picked the one he worked with in wbs. So people using this suddenly as an excuse don't get that he was also "his guy" when he won both cups.

 

[Khelandros]

Most if not all goalies, pick the goalie coach they are comfortable with. Murray picked the one he worked with in wbs. So people using this suddenly as an excuse don't get that he was also "his guy" when he won both cups.

That's all well and good, but looking at the mechanics something along the way has become broken. Whether it is Buckley getting Murray to do these things or something to do with Murray himself, who knows.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That's all well and good, but looking at the mechanics something along the way has become broken. Whether it is Buckley getting Murray to do these things or something to do with Murray himself, who knows.

I don't know, maybe it's the fact that the guy is f***ing fragile as hell?

Buckley was his guy in WBS when Bales was Fleury's guy, Bales helped Fleury rebound after a rough stretch and Buckley worked on the kids in WBS while Bales touched base with Buckley on things. But when Murray was up, he stuck with Buckley and the Pens then let Bales go when it was clear who the #1 was going to be.

Buckley has also worked with Jarry, DeSmith, etc. So I mean, the fact that people went there, is bizarre to me.

Murray has shown a lack of durability with his health and now mentally, the guy just does not look dialed in anymore, maybe he needs a shrink, but the way he moves in net, something isn't right and he's had a stretch of injuries we know about and then some that were kept out of the news and kept a mystery for whatever reason.

Maybe Murray rebounds when Jarry keeps out playing his ass, maybe he doesn't. Better now than when he's inked some stupid cap crushing contract.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm more amused by the fact that some folks are still holding on to the notion that Jarry couldn't be a #1 when he was always projected to be, didn't have a quick path to it, but he battled to it.

There are countless other situations like his around the league and teams have taken those guys as their #1 and what not. But because of what Murray did over 2yrs ago, people want to still give him the benefit of the doubt, in a contract year where the team has to either commit to him to a long term deal at a high cap hit, or maybe look at the kid that has been durable with his health, has battled to be a #1 and is so far, doing it consistently.

If Murray doesn't sign a cheaper deal to continue that battle between them, then they should trade him. It's not a pick me or him situation, you want to keep both, but if one still wants money like he's still elite when he clearly hasn't shown he can be during the regular season for consistent stretches, then f*** that, thanks for the back 2 backs.

I 100% believe Jarry will be fine if the team went with him as a #1. The games are building on his confidence. I wouldn't move Murray at the TDL or anything, probably at the end of the season when we've seen how this whole year has played out.

 

[Khelandros]

I don't know, maybe it's the fact that the guy is ****ing fragile as hell?

Buckley was his guy in WBS when Bales was Fleury's guy, Bales helped Fleury rebound after a rough stretch and Buckley worked on the kids in WBS while Bales touched base with Buckley on things. But when Murray was up, he stuck with Buckley and the Pens then let Bales go when it was clear who the #1 was going to be.

Buckley has also worked with Jarry, DeSmith, etc. So I mean, the fact that people went there, is bizarre to me.

Murray has shown a lack of durability with his health and now mentally, the guy just does not look dialed in anymore, maybe he needs a shrink, but the way he moves in net, something isn't right and he's had a stretch of injuries we know about and then some that were kept out of the news and kept a mystery for whatever reason.

Maybe Murray rebounds when Jarry keeps out playing his ass, maybe he doesn't. Better now than when he's inked some stupid cap crushing contract.

I thought Chiodo was the Goalie Coach in WBS.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I thought Chiodo was the Goalie Coach in WBS.

Chiodo literally joined last summer. So he's likely worked with Jarry since then, but until then, it was Buckley while Bales was gone and the Pens didn't really replace what Buckley did.

Bales left for the Hurricanes in 2017, is now with the Sabres with ex-Pen, Botts.
Buckley was promoted to Bales' role in 2017, no one was brought in to replace what Buckley did until the following year in 2018, around the time DeSmith started to really emerge as a back-up and Jarry seemed to have a very up and down season (likely changing his game up with what Chiodo was helping him with?)

2019, Jarry has been a consistent #1 goalie for us, DeSmith is doing well in WBS with Chiodo, and Murray is still having consistency issues with Buckley after 4yrs with the guy.


Buckley...

Helped mentor Matt Murray into a 2-time Stanley Cup-winning goaltender, the 4th rookie netminder to lead his team to a Cup title and a tie of the NHL rookie goaltending record with 15 playoff wins

Executive Bios

 

[Honour Over Glory]

@Khelandros

The ideal situation is Murray fights back to being #1, but then I am never not going to be skeptical. He's done this before, he will show flashes, have a long stretch of being mediocre to poor, then he will be somewhat consistent, then his playoffs will leave you wondering what all of that build up was for.

I am not sold on Murray. Even after what he did in the back 2 backs, he's followed it up with some very underwhelming seasons where the hope would be, someone would step up and either push him or take over. It's happening, I am curious what happens the rest of the year. But even if Murray bounces back, he would need to put up ungodly numbers for me to ever be receptive to him being signed to some 6m+ contract that JR might go for.

Or as an RFA, I make a deal with the Seattle expansion and solve the Pens issue of who we lose.

 

[billybudd]

@Honour Over Glory Thanks for all that. I was getting annoyed about this Bales/Buckley thing and was starting to get tempted to research it, but you saved me the time. Nice work!

 

[Shady Machine]

Sort of tired of people claiming Matt wasn't good last year. He was great from December on and struggled earlier in the year and was injured. He hasn't been good this year and the year prior to last he struggled with consistency(his dad also died, which is helpful context but understand your mileage may vary on using that as an excuse).

There are some concerning signs with his play, no doubt, but I think the narrative about him struggling since the Cup wins is too simplistic.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sort of tired of people claiming Matt wasn't good last year. He was great from December on and struggled earlier in the year and was injured. He hasn't been good this year and the year prior to last he struggled with consistency(his dad also died, which is helpful context but understand your mileage may vary on using that as an excuse).

There are some concerning signs with his play, no doubt, but I think the narrative about him struggling since the Cup wins is too simplistic.

It's not as cut and dry, for sure. But the inconsistent play wasn't something that was new. The year he father passed, he got a pass for it, which was tough for anyone to really scrutinise his play because of it. But then the following year, he started off rough again and he did turn it around, but he was also somewhat inconsistent in that stretch. He had moments of being elite, but then moments of being as ugly as he was in the first 2 months of the season that year.

The last 2 years in the playoffs, he's been mostly mediocre as well in comparison to what he did the previous 2 years. Sure people might be pouring on Murray and he might not deserve all of it, but to act like he hasn't given us cause for concern is also just as odd.

The fact is - Jarry is facing more shots and stopping more of them and the team is playing confident in front of him and he's keeping the Pens in the playoff race while key players drop like flies. Murray, when they really needed him, folded like a cheap tent this season.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

@Honour Over Glory Thanks for all that. I was getting annoyed about this Bales/Buckley thing and was starting to get tempted to research it, but you saved me the time. Nice work!

No worries.

The funniest thing is the parallels with the Murray fans that hated the Fleury fans and now how they're reacting to the people that see what Jarry is doing and want to defend Murray.

I mean...the irony of it.

For me, they're both Penguins. I am going to pick the one that helps us win and is doing it consistently since his first game this season.

Edit: I'm not a fan of the hockeywriters site, but they had a good write up of Jarry vs Murray and even the athletics, which people here like (not me), had an article about him.

If DeSmith was doing this, we'd be just happy until Murray took over. But when a guy that was drafted to be a #1 and projected to be one, is finally playing like one and consistently, people seem like they need to defend the other #1 even harder.

So odd.

 

[66-30-33]

I still believe MM can get back into his form, but he needs to start doing it. He was brutal last season up until December, then he was one of the better goalies. He used to talk about how he meditated and let things go when stuff happened to him in net back when he was winning cups, I think it was the Sharks series he talked about that? maybe he should get back to that if he quit doing that? maybe he doesn't really care too much about what's happening? who knows. Once our window expires after a few more seasons it wont matter who's in net, we are going to rebuild.

 

[Shady Machine]

It's not as cut and dry, for sure. But the inconsistent play wasn't something that was new. The year he father passed, he got a pass for it, which was tough for anyone to really scrutinise his play because of it. But then the following year, he started off rough again and he did turn it around, but he was also somewhat inconsistent in that stretch. He had moments of being elite, but then moments of being as ugly as he was in the first 2 months of the season that year.

The last 2 years in the playoffs, he's been mostly mediocre as well in comparison to what he did the previous 2 years. Sure people might be pouring on Murray and he might not deserve all of it, but to act like he hasn't given us cause for concern is also just as odd.

The fact is - Jarry is facing more shots and stopping more of them and the team is playing confident in front of him and he's keeping the Pens in the playoff race while key players drop like flies. Murray, when they really needed him, folded like a cheap tent this season.

No disagreement on this season. My main point is let's not go overboard in our analysis of the situation now by exaggerating Murray's struggles since the Cup wins. If you do that (not you specifically), you are more likely to make a rash decision.

I think it's totally fair to be concerned on giving big money long term contracts to a goalie that has been inconsistent and injured while you have 2 other NHL goalies in your org and 1 with as much potential as your starter. I just want to see a LOT more from Jarry before moving on from Murray. I'd be more inclined to take Murray to arbitration if it came to it vs trading him unless there was an offer that knocked my socks off.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hell, we might all eat crow if Jarry suddenly loses his composure and turns into what happened in 2017-18. I doubt it, but it could happen.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No disagreement on this season. My main point is let's not go overboard in our analysis of the situation now by exaggerating Murray's struggles since the Cup wins. If you do that (not you specifically), you are more likely to make a rash decision.

I think it's totally fair to be concerned on giving big money long term contracts to a goalie that has been inconsistent and injured while you have 2 other NHL goalies in your org and 1 with as much potential as your starter. I just want to see a LOT more from Jarry before moving on from Murray. I'd be more inclined to take Murray to arbitration if it came to it vs trading him unless there was an offer that knocked my socks off.

No I totally get that and you make/made valid points.

I just disagree completely with the bolded.

Jarry was drafted with as much or more potential. Murray came out of nowhere, but let's not forget Jarry was drafted with "Next #1" status. Not Murray. Murray went beast mode for 3yrs and well, yeah.

One is starting to play up to his potential and the one that no one expected, but surprised a ton of people, isn't right now.

 

[66-30-33]

Yeah MM was a long shot at best before he went to WBS IIRC?? just came out of nowhere.

 

[Shady Machine]

No I totally get that and you make/made valid points.

I just disagree completely with the bolded.

Jarry was drafted with as much or more potential. Murray came out of nowhere, but let's not forget Jarry was drafted with "Next #1" status. Not Murray. Murray went beast mode for 3yrs and well, yeah.

One is starting to play up to his potential and the one that no one expected, but surprised a ton of people, isn't right now.

I think it was @td_ice that recently posted a tidbit from a Pen's scout that was giddy after the Murray pick because they felt strongly they got a future #1 (particularly because of the mental make up). Jarry had more fanfare at the draft and prospect ranking, but maybe Murray just fell under the radar. That said, he was a stud in the AHL so it's not like his rise was a big shocker.

Anyway, I like Jarry and think it's possible he is a stud #1 someday, but it's early. Plus, the draft is old news. Let's evaluate the situation now and see how it shakes out. Personally, I want to see Jarry in the playoffs before moving on from Murray, but that also depends on how Murray plays the rest of the season.

 

[harmonica]

Yeah MM was a long shot at best before he went to WBS IIRC?? just came out of nowhere.

Murray didn't come out of no where and was well known as a prospect. But with the way goalies develope, he wasn't ranked as a stud/guarantee. Plus nobody could expect what would come from him.

 

[cheesedanish87]

This is Murray's 5th season in the NHL, I feel like we have seen a big enough sample size to know what type of goalie he is.

Murray is inconsistent.

He can get hot and carry a team for a extended period of time.

He can get cold and not give your team a chance to win over an extended period of time.

You also know Murray is going to have an injury or two every season.