Is Matt Murray Broken?

[CrosbyMalkin]

Matt, I'm sorry people booed you.

Also, going back from 2015-16 to now.

SV% numbers. Someone is 25th overall, another is 13th overall with a minimum of 40 games played, at least.

Weeeeeeeeeeeiiiirrrd.

NHL.com Stats

Using your lame logic DeSmith is the 12th best goalie since 2015-16 since he is one spot ahead of Jarry. DeSmith is an average NHL backup but using your lame argument to promote Jarry as somehow better than Murray this is what we get.

Bottom line is I posted that Murray has played like a top 5 NHL goalie for 3 of his seasons. Those can't be refuted. Using your same stats I put in 2015-16 and 2016-17 seasons minimum 50 starts combined Murray finished tied for 1st with Price in save%. Add in playoffs for those two seasons and Murray was best in NHL. But I am sure you will try and say other goalies played more games yet you give your lame chart above. Then if you take all goalies stats for the 2018-19 season of any goalie with more than half it's teams starts Murray was top 5 save%. Add those 3 years all together with playoffs and Murray has been one of they best goalies in his 3 seasons besides the season he was dealing with his father's terminal illness and eventual death.

So bringing up Jarry's small sample size in the NHL and saying that somehow that proves he is better than Murray is laughable. He doesn't even have better stats than journeyman DeSmith over that time. So I give Murray a pass for his one season with a very good excuse and am not passing judgement on this season until I see the final season numbers.

Jarry had a good hot start 18 games this season and then has been outplayed by Murray since that point. Murray is 5-0 in his last 5 games with a .929 save%. Let's see how this ends up by seasons end. You better come with some better ammo than that weak post above.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Using your lame logic DeSmith is the 12th best goalie since 2015-16 since he is one spot ahead of Jarry. DeSmith is an average NHL backup but using your lame argument to promote Jarry as somehow better than Murray this is what we get.

Bottom line is I posted that Murray has played like a top 5 NHL goalie for 3 of his seasons. Those can't be refuted. Using your same stats I put in 2015-16 and 2016-17 seasons minimum 50 starts combined Murray finished tied for 1st with Price in save%. Add in playoffs for those two seasons and Murray was best in NHL. But I am sure you will try and say other goalies played more games yet you give your lame chart above. Then if you take all goalies stats for the 2018-19 season of any goalie with more than half it's teams starts Murray was top 5 save%. Add those 3 years all together with playoffs and Murray has been one of they best goalies in his 3 seasons besides the season he was dealing with his father's terminal illness and eventual death.

So bringing up Jarry's small sample size in the NHL and saying that somehow that proves he is better than Murray is laughable. He doesn't even have better stats than journeyman DeSmith over that time. So I give Murray a pass for his one season with a very good excuse and am not passing judgement on this season until I see the final season numbers.

Jarry had a good hot start 18 games this season and then has been outplayed by Murray since that point. Murray is 5-0 in his last 5 games with a .929 save%. Let's see how this ends up by seasons end. You better come with some better ammo than that weak post above.

Literally not true at all.

What was their sv% in their last start? If you gotta use the "last 5 games" as any basis of someone playing better or being more deserving, lol. Here's a guy that had 2 rough games, then rebounded in his last game before the break and is at the ASG, something not even Murray has had the opportunity to do, because he's usually downright shit until after that point, the last 3yrs running.

1 of those games that are propping up his stats is also against literally the worst team in the last 30yrs.

Lol, you keep saying you have no bias either way, but you do and you keep f***ing posting essays. So yeah, you're jimmies are so rustled by this. Any stats anyone posts you are easily just triggered to death by it and get mad at people for it. That their stats are crap, yours aren't.



That's enough of your "stuff..." off you go to IL.

It's just nuts, people are going on about how they go by his 2nd half to prop him up in arguments, but what Jarry is doing for a full 25 games is marred by some unproven bs, when the league has a lot of situations like this that show this isn't some fluky stretch at all.

The fact that Jarry has also rebounded after 2 rough starts and then a 3rd game where the team shit the bed vs the Bruins and then was outstanding vs the Flyers, is some basis of him not being good enough, yet it proves he actually is with how quickly he was able to refocus his game. Not take over a month to with selective starts to stroke his ego.

 

[K Fleur]

If booing Murray is cool people should have booed the shit out of Yinzer Jesus.

But it’s different for some reason.

 

[canadianguy77]

If booing at a game Murray is cool people should have booed the **** out of Yinzer Jesus.

But it’s different for some reason.

The booing stuff is dumb. Every fanbase does it. Pen's fans aren't any different than any other fanbase.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Literally not true at all.

What was their sv% in their last start? If you gotta use the "last 5 games" as any basis of someone playing better or being more deserving, lol. Here's a guy that had 2 rough games, then rebounded in his last game before the break and is at the ASG, something not even Murray has had the opportunity to do, because he's usually downright **** until after that point, the last 3yrs running.

1 of those games that are propping up his stats is also against literally the worst team in the last 30yrs.

Lol, you keep saying you have no bias either way, but you do and you keep ****ing posting essays. So yeah, you're jimmies are so rustled by this. Any stats anyone posts you are easily just triggered to death by it and get mad at people for it. That their stats are crap, yours aren't.



That's enough of your "stuff..." off you go to IL.

Pathetic and embarrassed for you. Murray was propped by one good start. That is just not true. You do realize that over Murray's last 5 starts Murray is 5-0 and 4 of those starts Murray had a .917 save% or higher. The other start was still in the .9's. so somehow you are trying to act like Murray's 5-0 last 5 starts aren't very good. That is just ridiculous and you are so biased with your posts it is hard to believe you are a fan of this team. Jarry literally has 3 of his past 5 starts with save% in the .8's and somehow you argue he has been as good as Murray during this stretch. Can we at least have a conversation in reality please.

Any of your stats have been bias and not close to having any merit. Your stats you put up had DeSmith as the 12th best goalie in the NHL since 2015-16 season. So yes I dispute those lame quote facts. I used your same logic and showed how Murray had the best save% of any goalie with 50 starts between the years 2015-16 and 2016-17 seasons. See how using that type of sample size can make a point. The difference is Murray only had 14 less starts than Price who he was tied for 1st with. In your sample Jarry was litterly not close to the starts of any of the real top goalies during that time. But you lamely used that to show Jarry was better than Murray. That was absurd use of stats and those same stats had DeSmith 12th even higher than Jarry. So yes I don't take your statistical analysis seriously I don't think most people on these boards do either.

 

[Flying Dego]

Do you really think you made any point with your stupid Vezina voting crap? I could care less about any award that is voted on. Those awards are a joke and I stopped caring about them all the way back to 1989. That year Mario had 85 goals and 199 points which outpaced his closest teammate by 84 points. Gretzky won even though he had 54 goals and 168 points and only 18 points more than his closest teammate.

I gave my clear cut statistics for each of Murray's 3 years that he played top 5 NHL goalie ability. Again you couldn't refute any of those points and I am done debating with someone that really believes that Jarry should be the man after a hot 18 game start and then being mediocre at best since. I want to see much more before I turn this teams best last few Cup chances over to a goalie with such little experience. Thankfully Rutherford has much more common sense and I don't have to worry about such a bad mistake. You can believe what you want Jarry fan boy.

I hope Jarry turns out to be a top 10 starter in the league but he has much more to prove he is one. Also Honor over Glory posting lame statistics of showing Jarry 13th in the NHL with only 54 games is just laughable. Using that same logic DeSmith was right in front of Jarry at 12th. I guess he is one of the best goalies also since 2015-16. Sorry DeSmith is a back up NHL goalie but using those stats Glory put out to argue Jarry is better than Murray DeSmith is some NHL top 12 starting goalie. Please stop with the lame arguments. Some of you really have no common sense. I guess we get all kinds on message boards.

Take out the year Murray was dealing with his father's terminal illness and eventual death and see how far Murray moves up that list of Glory's. I made my case thaturrsu was a top 5 goalie in those 3 years. Gonput those years up and hit your little button. I never debated Murray was top 5 the year his father died or during the first half of this season. Plus Murray was the best goalie both his Cup years in the playoffs. I showed the facts that Murray was a top 5 goalie level player in his 3 years that was not the year of his father's death. My points for that case are very solid. Even going by this seasons stats is way to early. Let's see what his numbers look like at the end of the season. Last season his numbers started terrible also but by the end of the year he was top 5 save% for any goalie starting more than half his teams games.

Again I am not anti Jarry. I hope he proves to be an NHL top 10 goalie. If he ends up outplaying Murray from this point forward and is the starter in the playoffs and we win a Cup then I would be up for trading Murray. Short of that I keep both goalies until the expansion draft and decide then. This is what I think Rutherford will do. Done debating the knuckleheads.

Just for fun I went back and looked which goalie had the best save% with at least 50 starts for the years 2015-16 combined with 2016-17 and Murray was tired for 1st with Price. Then add in the other season I said Murray was playing top 5 goalie level which was last season and Murray is still one of they best goalies in the NHL besides the year his father had his terminal illness and eventual death. So like I said Murray has been a top 5 type NHL goalie in 3 of his plast 4 years. Let's see how the rest of this year goes Murray is 5-0 over last 5 starts with very good save% of .929 over that time. If Murray does what he did last season in the second half then his overall numbers this season will look much different.

You are using only Save % and in a way to best frame your point. That is a flawed way to judge a goalie. I gave you a better way to look into goalies with GSAA (goals saved above average) and you completely blow past that point. If you had anything else relevant to the discussion id be glad to hear it but you don't. Analytics have been heavily discussed with our skaters and it's a great tool, why scoff at a goalies version?

I am adding 'Jarry fan boy' to my description it's hilarious! Join me and put yours as 'Murray is top 5' or something fun...lighten up a bit!

For our sakes I pray JR doesn't have your outlook on Murray or he's getting 8+M for term. You are way to attached my man. If Jarry is best for the team, let it happen.

O and again make a poll to see where penguin fans view MM among the league. You won't bc you know you'll be the 1 person saying 'top 5'. But I'm the one lacking common sense. Got it. Honestly I envy you. You can watch something that isn't true and make it reality in your mind, I sometimes think life would be easier if I could do that.

Edit: I'm curious please provide the goalies you think are better than Murray. Should be a tiny list, no?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If booing at a game Murray is cool people should have booed the **** out of Yinzer Jesus.

But it’s different for some reason.

listen, I get it sucked to see and hear, but it's not the first time they've done that to a Pens player. Fleury has had many games where he got the "bronx cheer" from this fan base. So the fact that they felt they needed to even say that, felt like someone got triggered by it. While it still sucks it happens, it's sports, people say much worse to players from the stands.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You are using only Save % and in a way to best frame your point. That is a flawed way to judge a goalie. I gave you a better way to look into goalies with GSAA (goals saved above average) and you completely blow past that point. If you had anything else relevant to the discussion id be glad to hear it but you don't. Analytics have been heavily discussed with our skaters and it's a great tool, why scoff at a goalies version?

I am adding 'Jarry fan boy' to my description it's hilarious! Join me and put yours as 'Murray is top 5' or something fun...lighten up a bit!

For our sakes I pray JR doesn't have your outlook on Murray or he's getting 8+M for term. You are way to attached my man. If Jarry is best for the team, let it happen.

O and again make a poll to see where penguin fans view MM among the league. You won't bc you know you'll be the 1 person saying 'top 5'. But I'm the one lacking common sense. Got it. Honestly I envy you. You can watch something that isn't true and make it reality in your mind, I sometimes think life would be easier if I could do that.

That's the funniest part in these discussions.

The Murray arguments are with selective stats, it's either "from this date to this date" or some other random stat. Not as a whole. You've provided stats and analysis that backs your stuff without needing to pick and choose a time frame or a set amount of games.

Even going back from Murray's start to Jarry's start to now, Jarry sits 13th overall for SV% amongst all goalies in that same time frame that have played 40+ games (to count as someone that isn't some 12 game flash in the pan), Murray sits 12 spots lower or something like that.

Facts are facts.

 

[canadianguy77]

If Murray had TJ's athleticism and anticipation, and TJ had MM's size and fundamentals, and you crossed those two as some sort of hybrid, you'd have a perfect goalie.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If Murray had TJ's athleticism and anticipation, and TJ had MM's size and fundamentals, and you crossed those two as some sort of hybrid, you'd have a perfect goalie.

Thing is I think Jarry has those fundamentals and height wise he's 2" shorter than Murray, he's more or less the right size for being that athletic and tall and being effective at 6'2."

 

[JTG]

Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with Jarry's fundamentals. The very slight difference between Jarry and Murray is that when Murray is on his game, he plays with a bit more anticipation and is a tad more under control in his movements. That being said, Jarry is more athletic and doesn't really any have bugaboos like Murray does with his high glove.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with Jarry's fundamentals. The very slight difference between Jarry and Murray is that when Murray is on his game, he plays with a bit more anticipation and is a tad more under control in his movements. That being said, Jarry is more athletic and doesn't really any have bugaboos like Murray does with his high glove.

That and the amazing puck handling for a goalie.

 

[JTG]

That and the amazing puck handling for a goalie.

The puckhandling for me is the biggest differentiator as to why I like Jarry so much. He is in the upper echelon of puck moving goaltenders in the league. I just think that aspect of his game adds so much to our defense and saves the guys so many hits.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

The more words you type, the better you argument is!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The puckhandling for me is the biggest differentiator as to why I like Jarry so much. He is in the upper echelon of puck moving goaltenders in the league. I just think that aspect of his game adds so much to our defense and saves the guys so many hits.

For me it's the consistency. He has a bad goal but he refocuses almost right away. He has a very short memory of mistakes and just keeps going forward. Kid is just really good and people here might be Murray loyalists the same way people were with MAF but if this teams trades Jarry I just have this sick feeling they're giving away a future vezina winner.

 

[JTG]

For me it's the consistency. He has a bad goal but he refocuses almost right away. He has a very short memory of mistakes and just keeps going forward. Kid is just really good and people here might be Murray loyalists the same way people were with MAF but if this teams trades Jarry I just have this sick feeling they're giving away a future vezina winner.

I am a big Murray fan, but this is why you draft goalies in back to back years. This situation is turning out exactly how you would want to script it if you were a GM. Have a constant flow of guys so you're never paying out the ass for talent. With Jarry there is no reason to pay Murray a huge salary that eats up valuable cap where we could surround Sid and Geno with better talent as they age.

 

[66-30-33]

Is MM at an age he can still work on his puck handling or is he past that and had to work on it much younger?

 

[HandshakeLine]

The booing stuff is dumb. Every fanbase does it. Pen's fans aren't any different than any other fanbase.

Yeah, nothing beats wanting to be the same as other entitled fanbases! Let's go set some cars on fire!

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Is MM at an age he can still work on his puck handling or is he past that and had to work on it much younger?

I don't see why he can't improve it. It's not like Murray is bad at handling the puck (he's not Fleury), he's just not great at it like Jarry is.

 

[Turin]

There was a PDOcast recently about goalies, and apparently it’s being speculated that Murray’s style doesn’t suit the post 2017 game, as in his lateral movement isn’t as good as his other traits, and what made him really good right away isn’t the same thing given the chances in offensive attack the last few years.

I’m a bit skeptical, since he was pretty good last year, but something to think about and was an interesting take. They compared him to guys like Price, and basically said the cerebral goalie isn’t as effective as they were before.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

Oof can we get a word limit on posts