Is Matt Murray Broken?

[CrosbyMalkin]

Murray's numerous concussions may be catching up to him.

I think it is wayyyy to early to even debate this topic. If Murray hadn't already had times like this before and then go on to perform at an elite level for the rest of the year then maybe I would be a little concerned. Keep starting Jarry as long as he keeps kicking butt and then if he has a few bad games then Murray has his shot to take back his starting job. We saw how this went last year when DeSmith had a really hot start and eventually Murray took over and played great the rest of the season.

People need to relax and realize that Murray will be fine and if anything he is keeping his cap hit much lower in a new contract if he keeps this up much longer. Most likely he will start playing well and then we will have to pay big money for the next contract but at least he isn't signed to big money yet and how he performs from this point forward is going to mean literally millions a year for his future.

 

[trooper66]

He is a great goaltender, most goaltenders go through this kind of stuff

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

This is Murray's 5th season in the NHL, I feel like we have seen a big enough sample size to know what type of goalie he is.

Murray is inconsistent.

He can get hot and carry a team for a extended period of time.

He can get cold and not give your team a chance to win over an extended period of time.

You also know Murray is going to have an injury or two every season.

This is pretty right on and is why I want a backup that can play at a high level. All this trading Jarry talk is something I wouldn't consider. Keep both and if Jarry plays as well until the expansion draft then make a decision on who to go with. Jarry has the pedigree and athleticism to become a good starter and DeSmith is more an NHL backup in my opinion. I personally would keep all 3 for now.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think it was @td_ice that recently posted a tidbit from a Pen's scout that was giddy after the Murray pick because they felt strongly they got a future #1 (particularly because of the mental make up). Jarry had more fanfare at the draft and prospect ranking, but maybe Murray just fell under the radar. That said, he was a stud in the AHL so it's not like his rise was a big shocker.

Anyway, I like Jarry and think it's possible he is a stud #1 someday, but it's early. Plus, the draft is old news. Let's evaluate the situation now and see how it shakes out. Personally, I want to see Jarry in the playoffs before moving on from Murray, but that also depends on how Murray plays the rest of the season.

I know when he was drafted, there were talks of him being a goalie to watch out for after the year he had with the soo greyhounds. What he did in the ahl was when he came out of nowhere. Not after that is what I meant, he also had a damn good final year in the OHL. His ahl year was well documented. At that time the folks here were talking about goalies of the future and it was a lot of Vasilievskiy, Demko, Jarry talk and Murray was beast mode in the ahl and the first cup thing happened for the back to backs.

Murray is guy that should be in the talks of a top 5 but hasn't been consistent enough to be planted there yet. This year after the year he had last year should have been him quieting all critics and well...He's only given those clowns fuel for goalie controversy talk. Fun.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think it was @td_ice that recently posted a tidbit from a Pen's scout that was giddy after the Murray pick because they felt strongly they got a future #1 (particularly because of the mental make up).

From what I've seen, his mental game has been badly shaken. He has the rest of this season to sort his mind out but if the mental game isn't comparatively sharp his physical game is nothing special. He had the mental edge in his first couple years. Let's see if he can regain it.

 

[EightyOne]

I thought Chiodo was the Goalie Coach in WBS.

yikes

 

[Honour Over Glory]

yikes

I posted about this above.

Chiodo worked with Jarry the last season or so. He's done a decent job actually. Buckley is Murray's boy.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

From what I've seen, his mental game has been badly shaken. He has the rest of this season to sort his mind out but if the mental game isn't comparatively sharp his physical game is nothing special. He had the mental edge in his first couple years. Let's see if he can regain it.

I mean he had that Boeser meltdown and since then he doesn't look as sharp anymore with that cool as ice demeanour. Meanwhile Jarry even 2yrs ago or last year when he was all but written off, was always calm and just confident in himself. He's got his mojo going and he's realizing his potential.

Jarry has come in to relieve Murray in bad games and let in a few but comes back super strong in his starts. That's a starter's mentality.

Murray looks like he's ok but his game is just so off right now and it's stuff we've seen before but his movements are also so delayed to react. Not sure what is up with the guy.

 

[EightyOne]

I posted about this above.

Chiodo worked with Jarry the last season or so. He's done a decent job actually. Buckley is Murray's boy.

I'm really just interested in what Chiodo could bring to the discussion of modern goaltending strategy beyond 'just dont give up on your dream'

 

[Burn]

From what I've seen, his mental game has been badly shaken. He has the rest of this season to sort his mind out but if the mental game isn't comparatively sharp his physical game is nothing special. He had the mental edge in his first couple years. Let's see if he can regain it.

This Ill agree with. His focus is off... He was always square to pucks, sharp and quick with movements and that's not happening anymore.

My main problems with Murray are that he's staying the same goalie while the league has scouted him and figured him out.

The same can be said for Sullivan hockey.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm really just interested in what Chiodo could bring to the discussion of modern goaltending strategy beyond 'just dont give up on your dream'

To be fair, stars make terrible coaches.

I really don't know, but safe to say, there's a world of difference between teaching and doing. Some ex-plugs become great coaches. Maybe he's just got a good eye for fundamentals and technique, even if he couldn't replicate it himself?

 

[Turin]

This Ill agree with. His focus is off... He was always square to pucks, sharp and quick with movements and that's not happening anymore.

My main problems with Murray are that he's staying the same goalie while the league has scouted him and figured him out.

The same can be said for Sullivan hockey.

That’s a very easy way to hand wave literally anything. “They haven’t adapted”

 

[Ugene Magic]

I feel at this point, I need to stay away from all this goalie talk, I'd rather live in the moment and take what's given, I have a soft spot for all of these guys and I feel like every time you have to pick a side. I want them all to succeed and there literally is only one starter position.

Signed.



Out.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I feel at this point, I need to stay away from all this goalie talk, I'd rather live in the moment and take what's given, I have a soft spot for all of these guys and I feel like every time you have to pick a side. I want them all to succeed and there literally is only one starter position.

Signed.



Out.

Appreciated Ugene, but I'm watching the Penguins cap situation. We don't owe Murray a big-money contract. I'd be willing to give him $4Mish/year to be #1A or #1B but given what we've seen out of Jarry (and DeSmith at times) I don't want Murray to be one of our 3-5 highest paid players. I'd trade him first.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

This Ill agree with. His focus is off... He was always square to pucks, sharp and quick with movements and that's not happening anymore.

My main problems with Murray are that he's staying the same goalie while the league has scouted him and figured him out.

The same can be said for Sullivan hockey.

Both your points are wrong. Murray has been in the league 5 years. Do you really think it takes 5 years to figure a goalie out..

Murray is just on a rough stretch of bad play for whatever reason. I have seen him like this for long stretches many times before. The one thing I know is he always comes out of them and plays like a top tier goalie the rest of the year. Last year his stats had been just as bad. Then starting some time in December he was a top 3 goalie in the league the rest of the season. Do you really think that with all the film study teams do it would take 5 years to figure out a goalies so called weakness?

Your point about Sullivan's coaching and the league figuring that out is just as ridiculous point. In fact this Pens team is playing Sullivan's system to a key and the team looks as good as the 2016 Pens. It is amazing how well the Pens are doing with many of it's core players out and other top players for long stretches of the season. What is you expectations for the Pens with all these injuries? To be in a playoff spot is frankly remarkable and Sullivan has been coach of the year to date for what this team has done. When you have had Crosby, Malkin, Dumoulin, and Letang out for long stretches of the season and still be in a playoff spot. How many team could lose their top two defenseman and their top two forwards for long stretches and a host of other top 9 forwards and defenseman and still be in playoff contention?

If the Pens get healthy and keep playing Sullivan's system they can win the Cup with the roster they have. Of course being the best team never guarantees the Cup but I feel as good about this team as the 2016 team and believe they are just as good now. Most likely this team will add because Rutherford has the cap space at the deadline to bring in someone really good. I don't think it is needed but if he can pull it off great.

By the way I love the way Jarry is playing and he should be the starter until his play falters. DeSmith started out the same way last year as one of the hottest goalies in the league but eventually came back to Earth and Murray took back over. I think Jerry has a better pedigree than DeSmith and I hope he proves he is a good starter in this league but time will tell.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

I mean he had that Boeser meltdown and since then he doesn't look as sharp anymore with that cool as ice demeanour. Meanwhile Jarry even 2yrs ago or last year when he was all but written off, was always calm and just confident in himself. He's got his mojo going and he's realizing his potential.

Jarry has come in to relieve Murray in bad games and let in a few but comes back super strong in his starts. That's a starter's mentality.

Murray looks like he's ok but his game is just so off right now and it's stuff we've seen before but his movements are also so delayed to react. Not sure what is up with the guy.

This is simply inaccurate. Murray was one of the best goalies in the league for the second half of last season. You're reading way too much into one interview.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Sort of tired of people claiming Matt wasn't good last year. He was great from December on and struggled earlier in the year and was injured. He hasn't been good this year and the year prior to last he struggled with consistency(his dad also died, which is helpful context but understand your mileage may vary on using that as an excuse).

There are some concerning signs with his play, no doubt, but I think the narrative about him struggling since the Cup wins is too simplistic.

No, what you're really tired about is the fact the guy you hitched your wagon to, has largely been a below average NHL goalie to AHL fodder for the better part of the last 2 years.

It's simple minded people like yourself who pay people big money for crap they did years ago, in a very, very small sample size (playoffs).

Matt Murray has not had 1 single season where he played above the bar from start to finish. He's not been good enough in the playoffs either the past 2 trips.

He's been the most disappointing Pens player since 2107 given the huge things he did in 2016-17.

All you and some fragile others are doing is making the same tired excuse MAF got between 2010-13. It's beyond comical.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I think it was @td_ice that recently posted a tidbit from a Pen's scout that was giddy after the Murray pick because they felt strongly they got a future #1 (particularly because of the mental make up). Jarry had more fanfare at the draft and prospect ranking, but maybe Murray just fell under the radar. That said, he was a stud in the AHL so it's not like his rise was a big shocker.

Anyway, I like Jarry and think it's possible he is a stud #1 someday, but it's early. Plus, the draft is old news. Let's evaluate the situation now and see how it shakes out. Personally, I want to see Jarry in the playoffs before moving on from Murray, but that also depends on how Murray plays the rest of the season.

If Matt Murray was a better prospect than Jarry, he would have been drafted as such. He wasn't.

It ain't hard.

 

[ImporterExporter]

He is a great goaltender, most goaltenders go through this kind of stuff

Months in a row playing at an ECHL level?

No, they do not. I think people really have a strange understanding of the English language and what words actually mean.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

If Matt Murray was a better prospect than Jarry, he would have been drafted as such. He wasn't.

It ain't hard.

They were drafted in different years. Why are you like this?

 

[ChaosAgent]

No, what you're really tired about is the fact the guy you hitched your wagon to, has largely been a below average NHL goalie to AHL fodder for the better part of the last 2 years.

It's simple minded people like yourself who pay people big money for crap they did years ago, in a very, very small sample size (playoffs).

Matt Murray has not had 1 single season where he played above the bar from start to finish. He's not been good enough in the playoffs either the past 2 trips.

He's been the most disappointing Pens player since 2107 given the huge things he did in 2016-17.

All you and some fragile others are doing is making the same tired excuse MAF got between 2010-13. It's beyond comical.

Watch the personal attacks, dude.

You're a little bit overexaggerating on Murray. He's gone from very bad to very good over the last couple of years. He's not a bad NHL starter holistically. Just not a good one, either.

That said the larger point is that his arrow is pointing slightly downwards. People are really underestimating the mental aspects of the goalie position. Murray's aging curve is far less like Malkin going through a slump from the '09-'10 and '10-'11 seasons...and far more like Jordan Spieth stuck on 4 golfing majors after looking like he was going to challenge Tiger and Jack's records in his first few years on tour. Or, since people hate cross-sport comparisons, like Cam Ward.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I feel at this point, I need to stay away from all this goalie talk, I'd rather live in the moment and take what's given, I have a soft spot for all of these guys and I feel like every time you have to pick a side. I want them all to succeed and there literally is only one starter position.

Signed.



Out.

That’s fair especially when it’s likely nothing happens until the summer. JR likes depth especially in goal. He’s been burnt before in that department.

Whoever is playing better will get the starts for the most part. Terrible situation to be in

 

[ChaosAgent]

That’s fair especially when it’s likely nothing happens until the summer. JR likes depth especially in goal. He’s been burnt before in that department.

Whoever is playing better will get the starts for the most part. Terrible situation to be in

I guess technically something might happen with DeSmith. If no one gets injured and he keeps playing well he'll have significant value and I see us cashing in.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I guess technically something might happen with DeSmith. If no one gets injured and he keeps playing well he'll have significant value and I see us cashing in.

I’m not even sure that’ll happen because De Smith’s value won’t be that high in trade. Unless it’s the add on to get something else in a bigger deal.

 

[ImporterExporter]

They were drafted in different years. Why are you like this?

Like what?

Rational and armed with irrefutable facts?

Matt Murray was a diamond in the rough pick. He's somebody we got a lot more out of than was expected. And that's great.

Jarry was the centerpiece of our draft and the 2nd overall goalie drafted in 2013. He was drafted with the intention of supplanting MAF one day. Do i really need to post how many G we're thought of more highly in 2012?

It ain't hard.