Is Jon Cooper our weakest link?

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

and yet if they failed in the playoffs, they wouldve fired trotz. and even though he didnt stay, look what a mistake that wouldve been. i dont like judging things by playoffs in an age of nhl parity. give me 82 game sample sizes. and in those, coopers amazing. **** happens in the playoffs. you need a lot of luck. plus if the players cant get jacked up for the playoffs thats their fault. much harder to keep them interested in the reg. season and coop did that.

A series of small sample sizes eventually becomes a decently large sample size on its own.

If my math is correct, Jon Cooper has now been the head coach of the Lightning for 66 playoff games. The Lightning's record in those 66 playoff games? 36-30, a .545 win percentage. Breakdown by round:

Round 1: 12-13 (three wins, two defeats [both sweeps])
Round 2: 12-4 (three wins, zero defeats)
Round 3: 10-11 (one win, two defeats)
Round 4: 2-4 (one defeat)

That's 7-5 in playoff series' overall and, for whatever its worth, when the Lightning have faced a team with a higher seed than them (rarely), they're 2-1, both wins coming in 2015 against the Habs and Rangers, two teams with better regular season records but teams I felt the Lightning were better than, and I wrote that at the time as well. What that means also is that the Lightning have lost four postseason series over the years where they were the higher seed, thus, the team with the home ice advantage. Only once - 2016 ECF vs. Pittsburgh - were they eliminated when they didn't have home ice advantage. That pretty well sucks, and is entirely substantiated by their 18-18 record in home playoff games under Cooper (I mean, c'mon, that's pathetic).

Relative to expectations, the results aren't good enough. 66 games is nearly an entire season's worth of games, if small sample sizes is something you're worried about. 66 games across five postseasons, most of which have ended in dismal failure. Enough.

 

[J T Money]

Instead of firing Cooper, should work something out and trade with Pittsburgh for Sullivan. Coaches have been traded before (Gruden was acquired via trade and won the Super Bowl that year).

Saves both team money

 

[Hockey4Life91]

I was reading Washington by Ron Chernow. And a passage about the US’s preeminent leader struck me as worth passing on: “It bothered [Washington] that egalitarian officers fraternized with their men, joined them in line for food, and even gave them shaves.... To Patrick Henry, Washington worried aloud about the soldier and officer being too nearly on a level. Discipline and subordination add life and vigor to military movements. In part, Washington had an old-fashioned faith in military hierarchy as LIKELY TO PRODUCE THE MOST EFFICIENT ARMY.”

Putting aside the tactical shortcomings of Cooper, this too is a reason we mentally were weak and not capable of playing many gears higher. Cooper’s Buddy Buddy approach no longer is in the best interest of the team. First, for motivation reasons. Second, his lineup choices are not the best objective choices.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

I don't think Cooper is a bad coach. I think the team, and the coaching staff simply got complacent over the 82 game regular season that probably came easy for them. They enjoyed success all season and a mistake here or there or a loss here or there didn't bother anybody because they won the next night. They felt, as a team, they were good enough to beat anybody on any given night so I believe the X's and O's probably weren't a big concern for anybody as long as the team continued to rack up wins. It led to the team playing fast and loose, with not much structure. A lot of individual talent. Kuch racked up points like it was the 80's. The team and staff figured they would just be able to turn it on/up at the playoffs and keep winning. They got over confident and complacent. It doesn't appear they formulated much of a plan going into the series and it doesn't appear that any new plans were hatched during the beatdown.... They just seemed to think that they would win, because they had done it all year. it doesn't appear that they even attempted to adjust their play or game plan. If they did, it sure didn't show.

They seemed to forget that the playoffs are a different animal... much more physical and whistles are swallowed.
The games mean more and guys play harder. The intensity goes up and the need to be structured and detail oriented also goes up. Small mistakes can doom you in playoff games. Repeating the same mistakes is not a recipe for success.

Next year, I don't think they make the same mistake. I think they will take each playoff opponent more seriously and will have plans and backup plans on how to beat them and better prepared with what to expect. I think this collapse will be a giant wake up call to everybody involved that they have to get more serious about contending in the playoffs.

If nothing else, I'm sure a lot more practice aimed at beating a trap is in store for this team and can only help going forward.

 

[T REX]

I was reading Washington by Ron Chernow. And a passage about the US’s preeminent leader struck me as worth passing on: “It bothered [Washington] that egalitarian officers fraternized with their men, joined them in line for food, and even gave them shaves.... To Patrick Henry, Washington worried aloud about the soldier and officer being too nearly on a level. Discipline and subordination add life and vigor to military movements. In part, Washington had an old-fashioned faith in military hierarchy as LIKELY TO PRODUCE THE MOST EFFICIENT ARMY.”

Putting aside the tactical shortcomings of Cooper, this too is a reason we mentally were weak and not capable of playing many gears higher. Cooper’s Buddy Buddy approach no longer is in the best interest of the team. First, for motivation reasons. Second, his lineup choices are not the best objective choices.

THIS. Friendship totally blurs the line. We need new blood desperately.

 

[T REX]

I don't think Cooper is a bad coach. I think the team, and the coaching staff simply got complacent over the 82 game regular season that probably came easy for them. They enjoyed success all season and a mistake here or there or a loss here or there didn't bother anybody because they won the next night. They felt, as a team, they were good enough to beat anybody on any given night so I believe the X's and O's probably weren't a big concern for anybody as long as the team continued to rack up wins. It led to the team playing fast and loose, with not much structure. A lot of individual talent. Kuch racked up points like it was the 80's. The team and staff figured they would just be able to turn it on/up at the playoffs and keep winning. They got over confident and complacent. It doesn't appear they formulated much of a plan going into the series and it doesn't appear that any new plans were hatched during the beatdown.... They just seemed to think that they would win, because they had done it all year. it doesn't appear that they even attempted to adjust their play or game plan. If they did, it sure didn't show.

They seemed to forget that the playoffs are a different animal... much more physical and whistles are swallowed.
The games mean more and guys play harder. The intensity goes up and the need to be structured and detail oriented also goes up. Small mistakes can doom you in playoff games. Repeating the same mistakes is not a recipe for success.

Next year, I don't think they make the same mistake. I think they will take each playoff opponent more seriously and will have plans and backup plans on how to beat them and better prepared with what to expect. I think this collapse will be a giant wake up call to everybody involved that they have to get more serious about contending in the playoffs.

If nothing else, I'm sure a lot more practice aimed at beating a trap is in store for this team and can only help going forward.

Huh? That's what the caps beat us with LAST year. Why wouldn't we have practiced it already. We would face it agains vs the Caps or Islanders. It's a year too late.

 

[Rehabguy]

His calm demeanor swept you guys right out of the playoffs.

 

[Maelmoor]

This might be the year when someone snags him up in the nhl especially if he goes on a good playoff run. Right now Groulx or Richards would be he only two cooper replacements I want

If we go with what seems the most popular opinion, that this failure is Cooper's fault (I don't think it's that simple but anyway), why would you want to replace him with his right hand? If he had a totally different idea how to coach, why didn't he speak up? The coaching staff are usually working close together and aligned.

I can understand the wish to pick Groulx or someone from the outside, but to promote a part of the "failure" wouldn't make any sense.

 

[Fabiobest]

"My faith in Jon Cooper has not waived at all. We may not have won a Cup with him yet. If I hadn't re-signed Coop before playoffs, I'd be looking to re-sign him now"

Julien BriseBois

 

[ultra63]

"My faith in Jon Cooper has not waived at all. We may not have won a Cup with him yet. If I hadn't re-signed Coop before playoffs, I'd be looking to re-sign him now"

Julien BriseBois

. I couldn't believe that statement when I heard it.

 

[Fabiobest]

. I couldn't believe that statement when I heard it.

I agree with BB.
Here I've read lots of times that many people consider an idiot a coach that reached the Finals and 2 times the ECF...
He's not the idiot that lots of you believe he's. There's not only one reason because we lost now...and it's not only a Cooper fault.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

"My faith in Jon Cooper has not waived at all. We may not have won a Cup with him yet. If I hadn't re-signed Coop before playoffs, I'd be looking to re-sign him now"

Julien BriseBois

well, that pretty much says it all.

Will be looking forward to the next playoffs failure

 

[Fabiobest]

well, that pretty much says it all.

Will be looking forward to the next playoffs failure

We'll see...
If there's one sure thing is sports is that, in sports, nothing is sure. Everything can happen.

 

[MattM92]

"My faith in Jon Cooper has not waived at all. We may not have won a Cup with him yet. If I hadn't re-signed Coop before playoffs, I'd be looking to re-sign him now"

Julien BriseBois

That is just unbelievable. I'm not astounded that he isn't getting fired today, but that is almost a glowing review after what pretty much the entire hockey world has seen to be a grave weakness.

 

[Sky04]

Looks like JBB isn't looking to win a cup in the next 5 years, that's nice at least he's upfront about it.

 

[MattM92]

These comments by JBB are very, very troubling.

It very much looks like we will be going into October with the no or very minimal turnover.

Complacency on the ice loses games. Complacency behind the bench loses series. Complacency in the front office closes windows.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

"My faith in Jon Cooper has not waived at all. We may not have won a Cup with him yet. If I hadn't re-signed Coop before playoffs, I'd be looking to re-sign him now"

Julien BriseBois

Jesus christ.....

 

[JFleegs]

Were f***ed...

 

[These Are The Days]

REEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

 

[ultra63]

Should the thread be
Is JBB our weakest link?

 

[These Are The Days]

I'll accept Cooper returning if we change the fabric of the locker room. I can accept a coach who is quiet, laid back and hands off. That shouldn't sentence a team to playoff damnation every year. A fire and brimstone captain paired with coach like Cooper is a good balance in my eyes even vice versa. Coach is a hard ass? A captain who refuses to let it shake him and he stays cool and carries coach's message is a good balance too. As long as one guy of authority HATES losing and rallies the boys I'm happy. I just think too much of the same attitude is toxic. A coaching staff and team full of fire and brimstone is sometimes a team that doesn't know how to be calm in the storm. I don't always like that either but it can be productive.

Sadly this is what we have. It shows a painful lack of leadership and complacency and it pissed me off to no end to see Stamkos acting like this too. Your captain is your buffer between coach and team.

Wanna keep Cooper? Fine. But Stamkos can no longer be our captain. He has shadowed Cooper long enough and it makes me sick

There's too much of the same personality and it's made us weak

 

[Hoek]

Sigh.

I agree Sunny there should at least be some change to the on ice leadership.

 

[T REX]

I'm not surprised. I do think the organization is too chummy. It will be our downfall.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

I'm not surprised. I do think the organization is too chummy. It will be our downfall.

your avatar

 

[Nautica54]

Ah well get em next time...good try guys!