Is Jon Cooper our weakest link?

[Flat Ronnie]

Not sure I'd call any professional hockey player a beta. But there is somewhat of a culture of complacency here.

Beta can be mental, not just physical.

Theres A LOT of mentally soft top players on this team.

 

[Sky04]

BINGO!

Well said. Nothing but betas. Not necessarily their fault, that's just who they are. It's up to management to recognize it and build around them with killers. They have failed to do that so far.

The teams comprised on "nice, do-what's right" kind of guys who couldn't trash talk their way out of a paper bag but that's what we have and that's what we need to work around. They don't need to "copy" the mold of any other team, they need to identify and address their own weaknesses. Pittsburgh won a cup with a bunch of quiet guys, Washington and LA won cups with a bunch of RA-RA guys, there's no one recipe to a cup.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

The teams comprised on "nice, do-what's right" kind of guys who couldn't trash talk their way out of a paper bag but that's what we have and that's what we need to work around. They don't need to "copy" the mold of any other team, they need to identify and address their own weaknesses. Pittsburgh won a cup with a bunch of quiet guys, Washington and LA won cups with a bunch of RA-RA guys, there's no one recipe to a cup.

We dont need an overhaul, we need a fix. The mix for Pitt, WAS and LA worked for them. The mix that we have does not work - period.

It would be insanity to continue as is. There has to be at least one or two adaptions.

 

[Fork]

I never watched any tampa games before this year's playoffs, but I just want to say something. I watched every interview from Cooper after each game, and this guy has absolutely zero intensity. Players take on the personality of their coaches and it's not surprising given how they have played. Cooper always gives off this whatever attitude, I can't even tell if he actually wants to win hockey games. is it just me or do you guys feel this way too? how can you stand this guy, I don't think a coach like this can lead any team through the playoffs

 

[Coopers Gum]

I never watched any tampa games before this year's playoffs, but I just want to say something. I watched every interview from Cooper after each game, and this guy has absolutely zero intensity. Players take on the personality of their coaches and it's not surprising given how they have played. Cooper always gives off this whatever attitude, I can't even tell if he actually wants to win hockey games. is it just me or do you guys feel this way too? how can you stand this guy, I don't think a coach like this can lead any team through the playoffs

We feel the same way.

 

[romba]

Trotz's no nonsense approach may not have worked as well right off the bat with a ready made highly skilled veteran lineup the Bolts have. The blue collar lunch pail style was perfect for the Islanders.

Would have loved to see AV coach you guys to see what he could with the skill, but he too had difficulty beating the trap at times, as most Coaches who emphasize speed and skill do.

 

[romba]

We dont need an overhaul, we need a fix. The mix for Pitt, WAS and LA worked for them. The mix that we have does not work - period.

It would be insanity to continue as is. There has to be at least one or two adaptions.

Keep in mind Washington's mix didn't work for the longest time, until it did. Keep trying, you'll get there too, too much talent not to.

 

[Prediculous]

OP nailed it. Tampa is my #2 team (born and raised in Orlando), rooted for them hard against Chicago for their Stanley cup appearance. This team would be a dynasty with a guy like Trotz who preaches effort, intensity, and defense. The offense would take care of itself with the talent you all have. Cooper failed the team miserably and should be gone. Is the historical regular season enough to keep him around after these playoffs?

Hoping the Magic and Rays can fill the sports void for you all.

 

[MattM92]

Trotz's no nonsense approach may not have worked as well right off the bat with a ready made highly skilled veteran lineup the Bolts have. The blue collar lunch pail style was perfect for the Islanders.

Would have loved to see AV coach you guys to see what he could with the skill, but he too had difficulty beating the trap at times, as most Coaches who emphasize speed and skill do.

Not sure I agree there. Maybe some growing pains at the beginning, but it worked out fine in Washington and they have no shortage of high end talent.

 

[romba]

Not sure I agree there. Maybe some growing pains at the beginning, but it worked out fine in Washington and they have no shortage of high end talent.

Agreed, but it took 3 (or 4?) seasons for Trotz to get the best out of the Caps in the playoffs. People see what he's done with the Isles and assume he'd have the same or better effect stepping in with a more talented team which isn't necessarily the case.

 

[DekeR]

There are few ways to beat a 1-2-2. Tampa is not eqipped to dump and chase and they didn't try to short change the ice. They lost because of a team shaddy D and the players didn't step up the intensity. Bottom line is that the coaches didn't get the players to up the intensity and the players failed to play with any urgency, not to mention Vas laying a huge egg. Second set of PO's for him and I have yet to see him steal a PO game. Plenty of blame to go around.

 

[MattM92]

Agreed, but it took 3 (or 4?) seasons for Trotz to get the best out of the Caps in the playoffs. People see what he's done with the Isles and assume he'd have the same or better effect stepping in with a more talented team which isn't necessarily the case.

Ah, sorry, misunderstood your initial post. Agreed.

 

[AlphaCatalyst]

People weren't "loving" Cooper - we were giving him the benefit of the doubt based on the team's performance. The book was always "how does he do in the playoffs - he's earned another run." And he did.

And then he pooped on it.

So #FireCooper.

Systematic coaches have their place - Mike Sullivan just won back to back cups with Pittsburgh by deploying a system that covers their weak defense but he didn't adapt to squat, he just put his players in the best position for them to succeed. Tampa for years ran a stupid cycle system despite a team full of great skates, once Cooper changed that they became a dominant team (surprise). Cooper's not a bad coach, he's bad for this team that's got a bunch of beta players - adjustments, having a coach that's in your ear and a guy who can fire you up is what's needed on this team.

These are pretty much my thoughts on Cooper.

 

[Hoek]

There are few ways to beat a 1-2-2. Tampa is not eqipped to dump and chase and they didn't try to short change the ice. They lost because of a team shaddy D and the players didn't step up the intensity. Bottom line is that the coaches didn't get the players to up the intensity and the players failed to play with any urgency, not to mention Vas laying a huge egg. Second set of PO's for him and I have yet to see him steal a PO game. Plenty of blame to go around.

He stole like every win in the Pens and Caps series. We got worked in both of those and the only reason we won 3 games in each and took it to Game 7 was because of Vasi.

 

[Sky04]

There are few ways to beat a 1-2-2. Tampa is not eqipped to dump and chase and they didn't try to short change the ice. They lost because of a team shaddy D and the players didn't step up the intensity. Bottom line is that the coaches didn't get the players to up the intensity and the players failed to play with any urgency, not to mention Vas laying a huge egg. Second set of PO's for him and I have yet to see him steal a PO game. Plenty of blame to go around.

This exactly, this is how you beat a trap, you outskate the shit out of the other team. Watch any playoff game, most teams trap, the good ones have full buy-in from every player and make it more difficult, with the rule changes of the initial lockout "trapping" isn't as lethal as it used to be but it's a standard defensive system in hockey. If you get complacent because teams aren't opening their lanes for you, you're going to lose. Watch Boston vs Toronto this round, they're both fighting for every inch of ice trying to break down eachothers defenses, Tampa didn't have that intensity and now we have to wait and listen for a full calendar year about how they "learned a lesson" from this.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think Coop will be gone. Just a matter of when. That was inexcusable. Some players should be gone too but easier to fire a coach.

 

[The Macho King]

This exactly, this is how you beat a trap, you outskate the **** out of the other team. Watch any playoff game, most teams trap, the good ones have full buy-in from every player and make it more difficult, with the rule changes of the initial lockout "trapping" isn't as lethal as it used to be but it's a standard defensive system in hockey. If you get complacent because teams aren't opening their lanes for you, you're going to lose. Watch Boston vs Toronto this round, they're both fighting for every inch of ice trying to break down eachothers defenses, Tampa didn't have that intensity and now we have to wait and listen for a full calendar year about how they "learned a lesson" from this.

You skate, and you try and spread them out. Admittedly Hedman would have helped there with his ability to rush it up the ice on his own, but yeah there's no reason a 1-2-2 (not even a real trap since their forecheck was aggressive as f***) can't be figured out in this league.

 

[Magicman]

The teams comprised on "nice, do-what's right" kind of guys who couldn't trash talk their way out of a paper bag but that's what we have and that's what we need to work around. They don't need to "copy" the mold of any other team, they need to identify and address their own weaknesses. Pittsburgh won a cup with a bunch of quiet guys, Washington and LA won cups with a bunch of RA-RA guys, there's no one recipe to a cup.

No clue about the Caps, but...
Los Angeles won with a bunch of guys who put their ass's on the line for their teammates. Richards, Greene, Mitchell, Regehr, King, Clifford, Nolan, Stoll, Penner, Fraser, Brown, just to name a few. And they didn't stop coming at you.

You don't have to be Kreskin to realize that as the some of those players left/retired/aged... so did the Kings future cup runs.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Did we ever have anyone crashing the net? Bobrovsky looked so comfortable out there.

 

[Todd1a]

I think Coop will be gone. Just a matter of when. That was inexcusable. Some players should be gone too but easier to fire a coach.

You think he is gone this summer or will cooper be coaching us next season?

 

[PJ817]

When your team captain after the sweep comes out and says

"They had a well designed strategy that was well executed by the players who bought into it, and we had no answer for that"

Is that not the same thing that many of us have been saying, though much more politely? Cooper should be fired; he was brought up from the AHL because of JBB. He was brought into the AHL BY?

JBB... and who stands by Coop? JBB... the only one that can save this mess is? Yzerman - make him President of Hockey Ops, give him full control of everything - have him fire JBB, hire Jacques Lemaire with HUGE paycheck, FIRE Cooper.

Otherwise? JBB is an clown and we've got more of this coming up next year (minus Girardi, Strals, Cobie, Rutta who will be gone; Cally can't launch with that salary and no cup...)

 

[DFC]

I think Coop will be gone. Just a matter of when. That was inexcusable. Some players should be gone too but easier to fire a coach.

I think it happens sometime next year. There were times during these four games where it looked like the players lost faith and quit. I wouldn't be shocked if we see some of that next season, and, while I don't think Coop will be fired in the off-season, I do think his leash will be short.

 

[DFC]

When your team captain after the sweep comes out and says

"They had a well designed strategy that was well executed by the players who bought into it, and we had no answer for that"

Is that not the same thing that many of us have been saying, though much more politely? Cooper should be fired; he was brought up from the AHL because of JBB. He was brought into the AHL BY?

JBB... and who stands by Coop? JBB... the only one that can save this mess is? Yzerman - make him President of Hockey Ops, give him full control of everything - have him fire JBB, hire Jacques Lemaire with HUGE paycheck, FIRE Cooper.

Otherwise? JBB is an clown and we've got more of this coming up next year (minus Girardi, Strals, Cobie, Rutta who will be gone; Cally can't launch with that salary and no cup...)

Yeah, that's not an endorsement of Coop. And it's exactly, with even some of the same language, what many of us were saying.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Did we ever have anyone crashing the net? Bobrovsky looked so comfortable out there.

Nope. And we had like 1 shot on goal from the slot the entire series.

 

[Bolt 45]

Did we ever have anyone crashing the net? Bobrovsky looked so comfortable out there.

We tried that exactly once and were promptly given a penalty.