Is Jim Benning now the worst GM in the NHL?

[4Twenty]

if we actually followed central scouting we wouldn't have Horvat, Pettersson and Boeser today. Swap them out with Nikushkin, Kylinton, and Vilardi is the end result if you really believe any team can get away with following central scouting whom I think it's also a joke at times.

Draft from melvin's potato list then.

 

[Jay Cee]

You guys never get tired of saying and arguing about the exact same things over and over LOL.

You could easily make a bot that does what 50% of people do at on this forum.

 

[lawrence]

You guys never get tired of saying and arguing about the exact same things over and over LOL.

You could easily make a bot that does what 50% of people do at on this forum.

This is another management thread and it’s
The same bs the same users have said in other threads.

 

[lawrence]

The absolute worst way to analyze what you lost in a draft pick trade is to only look at the player the other team selected. It doesn't tell you anything.

Trotting it out continually is silly, and if the team is only doing that rudimentary level of analysis it's no surprise they gave away a full years worth of picks in 4 seasons.

Double standard. You are allowed to analyze a trade before the pplayers get picked but not allowed to do it after the picks are made ? Double standard.

 

[4Twenty]

Double standard. You are allowed to analyze a trade before the pplayers get picked but not allowed to do it after the picks are made ? Double standard.

Having a hard time seeing the double standard, could you elaborate what you mean?

It makes no sense if you're a team trying to figure out what you missed out on at a given pick by just looking at who was taken by one of the other 30 teams staffs. I mean for fans, it's a simplistic way to look at it, but it doesn't provide you any intel.

If I was running a team, I'd be looking at the players who were available, what my staff's list looked like etc.

Just saying Roland Mckeown is a nothing prospect makes no sense, just the same as when Gillis traded Ballard for the pick that turned into Howden. Don't you think it makes sense to see who your staff had a BPA at that spot? vs what some other team did? Did the Canucks lose out on Howden, or the opportunity at players like Coyle, Kuznetsov, Toffoli etc?

 

[Grantham]

I would like to see how Chia and Benning compare for FA signings in their most recent tenure. I think it could be a toss up.

 

[moog35]

I would like to see how Chia and Benning compare for FA signings in their most recent tenure. I think it could be a toss up.

Ya both have some pretty bad FA signings. Benning’s drafting has been better than Chia’s though

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Double standard. You are allowed to analyze a trade before the pplayers get picked but not allowed to do it after the picks are made ? Double standard.

Yes, because the chances of Benning picking the same players are astronomical. Therefore using the players other teams players drafted is not a valid comparison.

 

[lawrence]

Yes, because the chances of Benning picking the same players are astronomical. Therefore using the players other teams players drafted is not a valid comparison.

So we don’t know who the f*** he was going to pick right ? So why are we complaining about lost picks like it’s the end of the world ?

Double f In standard.

It’s like saying we did very well in the pavel bure trade because we got a 1st round pick in return in that trade even though we picked Nathan smith.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

This is another management thread and it’s
The same bs the same users have said in other threads.

Why is it bs? Why is the criticism Benning has received on here not justified?

So we don’t know who the **** he was going to pick right ? So why are we complaining about lost picks like it’s the end of the world ?

Double f In standard.

It’s like saying we did very well in the pavel bure trade because we got a 1st round pick in return in that trade even though we picked Nathan smith.

Because we've been a rebuilding team since about 2014. Rebuilding teams shouldn't be trading away draft picks, but rather looking to acquire them. No one is expecting the Canucks to hit on all of their draft picks. But the more picks we have, the better our odds are of hitting on some of them.

 

[MS]

The draft picks Benning has bled are a problem but they’re not even in the top 10 things wrong with Jim Benning and the job he’s done here, and long arguments about them are a bit of a red herring.

Even if he hadn’t bled those picks, he’s still by far the worst GM in the NHL. They’re a drop in the bucket.

 

[lawrence]

Why is it bs? Why is the criticism Benning has received on here not justified?



Because we've been a rebuilding team since about 2014. Rebuilding teams shouldn't be trading away draft picks, but rather looking to acquire them. No one is expecting the Canucks to hit on all of their draft picks. But the more picks we have, the better our odds are of hitting on some of them.

Because people get tired of it. We don’t need to hear the same shit over and over again.

 

[lawrence]

Again, not trying to convince anyone benning is a genius. But some of you are overrating picks by way to far.

 

[clunk]

Again, not trying to convince anyone benning is a genius. But some of you are overrating picks by way to far.

Is trading away draft picks for 'win now' pieces and pet projects rebuilding?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Because people get tired of it. We don’t need to hear the same **** over and over again.

It cuts both ways. People that unreasonably defend Benning often trigger the rehashed debates.

 

[Horse McHindu]

You mean in their "transition" stage?





Lowest point total in the league while trying to make the playoffs.

Unfortunately, this is a concept that for whatever reason, the “Tank Crowd” doesn’t seem to get.

Even if management realizes deep down that the team in front are in a rebuilding stage, you HAVE to get the kids to compete hard every night and make them try and push for the playoffs. You don’t just go in front of the media and bury your team by saying, “yeah we’re rebuilding and we look forward to getting younger and getting help via the lottery.” What type of message does that send to the vets on the team? Or even the kids? THAT is how you get your kids to party late at night, act unprofessionally, and not take their crafts seriously. “Management doesn’t care about this season so why should we right?” Just a bad bad bad management approach to take. THAT is how you end up like Ottawa and Edmonton.

It’s this willingness to compete night in night out that will help the team form good habits in the long run.

Even during a rebuild stage, you bring in vets IF there are no kids or prospects in the system that are ready for open roles (or even around 90% of said role so that said kid could realistically grow into said role).

That’s why you bring in a Prust (Gaunce was t quite ready at the time), or a Sutter (help take pressure off of Horvat....by filling in on the 2nd line at times while taking defensive assignments....something that Bonino can’t do), or an Eriksson (when Vrbata left, we had no one in the system that could complement Hansen on that right side. Virtanen was too green and Burrows was washed up. Boeser was an unknown entity at the time).

You DON’T just sell off all your vets for picks and then force your current kids to play in roles that they are too green for. Why? Because - even if you’re accumulating picks/prospects, you are likely setting up the current kids within the system to fail. It’s akin to trying to fill a bucket with water that has a small hole in it. It’s one major reason why many teams in the NHL over the last 20 years, have been perennial bottom feeders.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

So we don’t know who the **** he was going to pick right ? So why are we complaining about lost picks like it’s the end of the world ?

Double f In standard.

It’s like saying we did very well in the pavel bure trade because we got a 1st round pick in return in that trade even though we picked Nathan smith.

18/19 MGMT thread VII. WARNING POST #25

That is the result of Benning trading away draft picks. If he kept his picks, the chances of getting atleast 1 top 6/top 4 d is 53%. For a team lacking both, just having one would be huge.

If we traded Bure for a 4th and that pick ended up being a superstar that would not make it a good trade. If a rebuilding team trades a second for a fringe player and the pick busts, it is not a good trade. This is what matters when judging pick-player trades:

-Where the team is at. Does it make sense for the team to be trading away picks?
-The value of the player.
-The value of the pick.

 

[pgj98m3]

Because people get tired of it. We don’t need to hear the same **** over and over again.

When he leaves it will stop....try thinking before posting

 

[moog35]

The draft picks Benning has bled are a problem but they’re not even in the top 10 things wrong with Jim Benning and the job he’s done here, and long arguments about them are a bit of a red herring.

Even if he hadn’t bled those picks, he’s still by far the worst GM in the NHL. They’re a drop in the bucket.

How is Benning the worst GM in the NHL by far?

Is he the best? Not even close
Is he in the top 15? I don’t think he is
Is he around 20ish? I’d say so

He’s not the worst GM in the league.

His pro scouting sucks but his drafting has been pretty good.

He also had to deal with a meddling owner who didn’t want a rebuild and a president of hockey operations with zero expirience. He hasn’t been great but he’s been improving lately even if it’s slowly

Since Linden left he’s actually been making some very Un-Benning like moves. He has acquired picks, got Leivo for cheap and traded a veteran to make room for a younger player in the Nillson deal.

It makes me wonder how many of his previous win now moves were influenced by ownership and Linden.

 

[mossey3535]

Like I said there is not just one scouting staff. Not every scouting will want the same player. He still needs to pick the right player. He could of listened to someone else or pick his own guy.

"Amateur scouting different animal" fair enough. So Do you blame JB for drafting Juolevi and Virtanen? If the answer is No that means you will think JB was driving that pick. Can you provide a video or any legit resources to back that up?

About the pro scouting? I agree Jb negotiate the trade. I dont think JB does all the targeting and scouting? A few messages ago you wrote "the pro scouting couldn't target any good defencemen" so it's not all JB fault.

Ok let's saw off responsibility for amateur drafting between the scouting staff and JB. So that is not really a win or a loss for him.

Now all that's left to evaluate him with is pretty much just a giant mound of fail. He signed some good RFA contracts, and I liked the Goldy, Baertschi, and Leivo trades (but he botched the last one and lost double the assets). That's about it.

That's why the scouting thing is debated ad nauseum, even though in reality it's ambiguous. That uncertainty is the only place where a Benning supporter can try to claim a clear win for him even if it is on spurious grounds.

 

[Horse McHindu]

How is Benning the worst GM in the NHL by far?

Is he the best? Not even close
Is he in the top 15? I don’t think he is
Is he around 20ish? I’d say so

He’s not the worst GM in the league.

His pro scouting sucks but his drafting has been pretty good.

He also had to deal with a meddling owner who didn’t want a rebuild and a president of hockey operations with zero expirience. He hasn’t been great but he’s been improving lately even if it’s slowly

Since Linden left he’s actually been making some very Un-Benning like moves. He has acquired picks, got Leivo for cheap and traded a veteran to make room for a younger player in the Nillson deal.

It makes me wonder how many of his previous win now moves were influenced by ownership and Linden.

I don’t fully agree with this but there is a lot about this post that I do agree with.

 

[BROCK HUGHES]

Any Gm who values Pouliot as a nhl defenseman should be in the bottom 3.
Until Benning starts getting rid of the garbage he has collected he is a bottom 3...Del zotto was a start ,why stop there.

 

[Hit the post]

Any Gm who values Pouliot as a nhl defenseman should be in the bottom 3.
Until Benning starts getting rid of the garbage he has collected he is a bottom 3...Del zotto was a start ,why stop there.

When you consider Guds (at this point in time) over those two pieces of trash that tells you something. Course, he have to give up real assets to acquire Guds. At least those two (and Bartman) were obtained for "free" or minimal assets. How many lottery pick finishes does he need to rebuild the blueline? Certainly isn't getting it via free agence, trade, etc., Heck, Jim Benning the NHL defenseman > anybody he's acquired as of this date.

 

[Peter10]

That’s why you bring in a Prust (Gaunce was t quite ready at the time), or a Sutter (help take pressure off of Horvat....by filling in on the 2nd line at times while taking defensive assignments....something that Bonino can’t do), or an Eriksson (when Vrbata left, we had no one in the system that could complement Hansen on that right side. Virtanen was too green and Burrows was washed up. Boeser was an unknown entity at the time).

This tells me you havent really watched a game from 15-17 when Sutter was constantly used in offense assignments (f.e. on the wing with the Sedins) while Bo was doing PK work.

And signing an over the hill forward to a 6-year deal (for 36m nonetheless) is not a fill in until the young guys are ready. Seriously, you make yourself look terrible when you try to defend things like this.

 

[PG Canuck]

This is another management thread and it’s
The same bs the same users have said in other threads.

Both sides do it - lets not try to act like angels here.