Is Erik Karlsson still a top 5-10 dman?

[Revelation]

Name one post where he is compared to Keith or Lidstrom, he is much more then an ok young second pairing defenseman though, maybe you should watch him. He is dynamic and only 20 years old

At this point that's exactly he is, even if he's a solid #3 that's hardly a diss, but everyone hypes their young defensemen who stick in the NHL to high hell so saying a guy is 2nd pairing at 20 years old is somehow taken as an insult. I remember when top pairing used to actually mean something though so maybe it's just me.

He was compared to Keith after the trade, then in the who plays most like Lidstrom thread he was argued to be a candidate, I'm not gonna go dig for links because f*** doing that on a Friday night. I don't even think he's bad it's just comical.

 

[Revelation]

Krug? Carlson? Josi? Damn man. I can get taking Doughty, Hedman, Subban, or maybe even Burns (though not imo), but the rest are a solid NO right now. Dahlin and Jones hold more trade value.

Poor John Carlson, puts up 68 points, leads his team to a cup on the backend playing in all situations and usually paired with Michael Kempny/Christian Djoos, signs a big contract that's actually not that big and is on pace for like 90 points and still gets no respect. WTF does a guy have to do around here.

 

[NyQuil]

Poor John Carlson, puts up 68 points, leads his team to a cup on the backend playing in all situations and usually paired with Michael Kempny/Christian Djoos, signs a big contract that's actually not that big and is on pace for like 90 points and still gets no respect. WTF does a guy have to do around here.

It’s tough when you’re not the best guy on your team.

Some might argue 3 or 4.

It’s actually a nice problem to have.

 

[CanadienShark]

Poor John Carlson, puts up 68 points, leads his team to a cup on the backend playing in all situations and usually paired with Michael Kempny/Christian Djoos, signs a big contract that's actually not that big and is on pace for like 90 points and still gets no respect. WTF does a guy have to do around here.

I'm a huge Carlson fan. Let me make that clear. I think he's a top 10 d-man. I just don't think he's on Karlsson's level. Carlson has a ton of internal competition. Niskanen and Orlov are top pairing d-men and while I disagree with the following assesment, some consider them to be better than Carlson.

 

[Revelation]

I'm a huge Carlson fan. Let me make that clear. I think he's a top 10 d-man. I just don't think he's on Karlsson's level. Carlson has a ton of internal competition. Niskanen and Orlov are top pairing d-men and while I disagree with the following assesment, some consider them to be better than Carlson.

Niskanen and Orlov are #2s that compliment each other perfectly so their pairing plays as more than the sum of its parts, kind of like Hamhius-Bieksa for the stretch when it was a really good pairing. Carlson is top dog, it took him a while but he's great at everything now.

It's hard for me to say what EK's level is anymore, clearly he's still top pairing but he's missing heelbones and stuff and it's entirely possible Carlson is better from this point on. At least if he puts up substantially more points and goes deep again playing all situation you can make a case.

 

[wetcoast]

Uh yes.

Anderson’s play is a 180 from last season and Chabot is more seasoned now. Ask any Sens fans if they would take Karlsson back and most of us would say Yes in a heartbeat.

To think we would be worse with Karlsson this season is just idiotic. Have you seen our SA and our defense?

The thing is that the Sens are doing better without him this season compared to last.

The Sens also did better after the bad cookie hit.

Might just be coincidence or maybe not hard to tell.

One thing is for sure EK65 hasn't been a top 10 dman over last season and this year.

 

[wetcoast]

It’s tough when you’re not the best guy on your team.

Some might argue 3 or 4.

It’s actually a nice problem to have.

This is what EK65 fans are finding out in this thread.

For years the narrative has been the team being poor around him.

How times have changed.

 

[SPF6ty9]

This is what EK65 fans are finding out in this thread.

For years the narrative has been the team being poor around him.

How times have changed.

What are you even arguing? That Karlsson isn't good because points? His advance stats show he's still a top 3 defensemen in the league. The eye test shows he's starting to settle in and dominate again. When he finishes the year with 60 some points and tilts the ice like no other defenseman, well, that's what I would call a star player.

I don't know what you mean by narrative, there was never any narrative, never needed to be. Karlsson has years worth of elite play with both good and bad teammates to show what he is. Are you Mike Hoffman's gf or something?

 

[wetcoast]

What are you even arguing? That Karlsson isn't good because points? His advance stats show he's still a top 3 defensemen in the league. The eye test shows he's starting to settle in and dominate again. When he finishes the year with 60 some points and tilts the ice like no other defenseman, well, that's what I would call a star player.

Advanced stats are great but EK remains a high event Dman, when he is on the ice his team scores alot but so does the over team.

Last time I checked teams wins games by scoring more goals than their opponents.

And let's not skip over the fact that he is playing with an elite defensive Dman in Vlasic.

He might score 60 points this year, he is on pace for 52 right now, but so will maybe a dozen other Dmen including one on his own team in Burns.

He doesn't tilt the ice like no other Dman, that's pure fiction.

Giordano is doing that this year.

I don't know what you mean by narrative, there was never any narrative, never needed to be. Karlsson has years worth of elite play with both good and bad teammates to show what he is. Are you Mike Hoffman's gf or something?

Well yes there was, for years EK65 defenders talked about the AHL level type of team the Sens were without EK.

There were threads ad nauseam with posts like that in them.

 

[NyQuil]

This is what EK65 fans are finding out in this thread.

For years the narrative has been the team being poor around him.

How times have changed.

The narrative being 100% accurate.

It’s a good thing you were paying attention.

 

[NyQuil]

The thing is that the Sens are doing better without him this season compared to last.

The Sens also did better after the bad cookie hit.

Might just be coincidence or maybe not hard to tell.

One thing is for sure EK65 hasn't been a top 10 dman over last season and this year.

With EK65 playing at his best, they had their second best playoff performance in franchise history.

Maybe have a look at the rosters as opposed to just making generalizations.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Advanced stats are great but EK remains a high event Dman, when he is on the ice his team scores alot but so does the over team.

Last time I checked teams wins games but scoring more goals than their opponents.

And let's not skip over the fact that he is playing with an elite defensive Dman in Vlasic.

He might score 60 points this year, he is on pace for 52 right now, but so will maybe a dozen other Dmen including one on his own team in Burns.

He doesn't tilt the ice like no other Dman, that's pure fiction.

Giordano is doing that this year.





Well yes there was, for years EK65 defenders talked about the AHL level type of team the Sens were without EK.

There were threads ad nauseam with posts like that in them.

Did you ignore Sharks fans analysis of Vlasic this season?

Fact: Karlsson is awesome.

 

[Drytoast]

Not gonna lie...


Not impressed with his play.

 

[wetcoast]

The narrative being 100% accurate.

It’s a good thing you were paying attention.

you can't see the irony here?

Last season the Sens finished 30th in the league.

EK is now gone and they are in 24th place going into tonight's game which I now see that they won?

 

[wetcoast]

With EK65 playing at his best, they had their second best playoff performance in franchise history.

Maybe have a look at the rosters as opposed to just making generalizations.

Let's face the facts here.

Karlsson was 12th in Norris voting last year and looks likely to be outside the top 10 again.

So to the OP no he isn't a top 10 dman any more.

 

[Levie]

Advanced stats are great but EK remains a high event Dman, when he is on the ice his team scores alot but so does the over team.

Last time I checked teams wins games by scoring more goals than their opponents.

And let's not skip over the fact that he is playing with an elite defensive Dman in Vlasic.

He might score 60 points this year, he is on pace for 52 right now, but so will maybe a dozen other Dmen including one on his own team in Burns.

He doesn't tilt the ice like no other Dman, that's pure fiction.

Giordano is doing that this year.





Well yes there was, for years EK65 defenders talked about the AHL level type of team the Sens were without EK.

There were threads ad nauseam with posts like that in them.

Guess I know I can disregard anything you say about the Sharks.

 

[wetcoast]

Guess I know I can disregard anything you say about the Sharks.

You don't think that vlasic is elite defensively?

 

[Mattb124]

Did you ignore Sharks fans analysis of Vlasic this season?

Fact: Karlsson is awesome.

And it's not even just Sharks fan analysis. Vlasic has always been a + player facing top comp, and he is a Sharks worst -14 so far this year. Horribad.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Poor John Carlson, puts up 68 points, leads his team to a cup on the backend playing in all situations and usually paired with Michael Kempny/Christian Djoos, signs a big contract that's actually not that big and is on pace for like 90 points and still gets no respect. WTF does a guy have to do around here.

Yeah, cause he’s nowhere near Erik f***ing Karlsson. That’s why he gets scoffed at when he’s brought up in a thread like this.

 

[Revelation]

Yeah, cause he’s nowhere near Erik ****ing Karlsson. That’s why he gets scoffed at when he’s brought up in a thread like this.

The way Erik Karlsson has been playing since getting his heel chopped up he's comfortably above him.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The way Erik Karlsson has been playing since getting his heel chopped up he's comfortably above him.

He’s really not and he’s actually not even close.

The only thing that Carlson does at a high level is scoring points on an absolutely elite PP that runs through a generational player and Erik Karlsson still scored at a higher points per game last season on the sunken Senators.

 

[Revelation]

He’s really not and he’s actually not even close.

The only thing that Carlson does at a high level is scoring points on an absolutely elite PP that runs through a generational player and Erik Karlsson still scored at a higher points per game last season on the sunken Senators.

And now you see what happens when the entire offense doesn't run through Karlsson. Unable to put up those same numbers despite being surrounded by comparable players to what Carlson has.

The idea that the guy who's had the most RS points for D last season, most points for D last playoffs on the way to a cup, most points this year while playing in all situations with passable partners is nowhere remotely close to what Erik Karlsson has been since the start of 2017 is laughable.

 

[CaptainShark]

Advanced stats are great but EK remains a high event Dman, when he is on the ice his team scores alot but so does the over team.

Last time I checked teams wins games by scoring more goals than their opponents.

And let's not skip over the fact that he is playing with an elite defensive Dman in Vlasic.

I dunno what pains me more, reading this quote or watching Vlasic play this season.

1st capital mistake: The Karlsson Vlasic paring lasted about 5 games, since then Karlsson has been paired with Brendan Dillon.

2nd capital mistake: Vlasic wasn’t elite last season and he is downright shitty this season so far. Looks lost, uninterested, unstructured, whatever...

To sum up: it doesn’t make sense to chime in on this thread if you haven’t even watched a few Sharks games recently.

 

[CaptainShark]

And now you see what happens when the entire offense doesn't run through Karlsson. Unable to put up those same numbers despite being surrounded by comparable players to what Carlson has.

Again, it took some time to adjust but he’s been on nearly a PPG pace for the last 16 games (15 points) despite having to share premium ice-time with Burns and playing fewer minutes than in Ottawa. Anyone who has watched the last 10-15 Sharks games and doesn’t recognize that Karlsson is elite, does not understand hockey. I’m not a huge +/- guy, but even that has improved a lot over that span. That Karlssons +/- was sooo terrible early was in part due to him being on the ice for some ENGs and in part because he was so bad in his own zone that I started to question the trade... it took him longer to adjust than I had imagined, but now it’s all smiles in San Jose!

 

[Agent Zub]

Advanced stats are great but EK remains a high event Dman, when he is on the ice his team scores alot but so does the over team.

Last time I checked teams wins games by scoring more goals than their opponents.

And let's not skip over the fact that he is playing with an elite defensive Dman in Vlasic.

He might score 60 points this year, he is on pace for 52 right now, but so will maybe a dozen other Dmen including one on his own team in Burns.

He doesn't tilt the ice like no other Dman, that's pure fiction.

Giordano is doing that this year.





Well yes there was, for years EK65 defenders talked about the AHL level type of team the Sens were without EK.

There were threads ad nauseam with posts like that in them.

Holy shit [mod]. Vlasic has been one of the worst defenceman in the league this year and he doesn't play with Karlsson. Jesus f***ing Christ why am I wasting my time replying to someone who has no clue whats happening.