Is Buffalo's Roster Better Than Montreal ?

[sabremike]

Sizzle sizzle!

In a vacuum I would agree, but when you have just about the worst forward depth in the sport (both at the NHL level and in terms of prospects) and you end up with your pick of several high end forward prospects who miraculously fall to that spot and you pass that's inexcusable.

 

[Dirty Dog]

In a vacuum I would agree, but when you have just about the worst forward depth in the sport (both at the NHL level and in terms of prospects) and you end up with your pick of several high end forward prospects who miraculously fall to that spot and you pass that's inexcusable.

In fact, ITS ONE OF THE WORST PICKS EVER

It’s a hot take from someone who consistently says them with no depth, and is wrong a ton. If you want to hate buffalo taking to many defensemen as a trend that’s fine, if you are you going to use that as a complaint to criticize a specific pick, then you having a nice gap in your logic.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

So barrie is a 1D now? Thats rich. Points do not always translate to 1D. Barrie is identical to Risto on the Sabres, but played on a better team. He played 2nd line ES minutes and was the QB of one of the best PP's in the league for the past 2 seasons. He is not the guy you throw on the ice to protect a lead, PK, or do anything that true 1D's do. I absolutely love Barrie. He will put up a ton of points, but you are badly mistaken if you think you have a Doughty on your hands. Think its a coincidence he finsihed 7th in dman scoring, 6th in pp scoring, and 6th in shots by a dman, yet received ZERO Norris votes?



I liked their moves this offseason as well, but my point anywhere I've said it and what some guys are saying here is these moves were a bunch of fluff taking them from a lottery team to a bottom 10 team instead. Dahlin or Eichel having Hart like seasons is the only way they sneak into the playoffs.

Atlantic will be:

1. Lightning

then in any order
2. Bruins
3. Leafs
4. Panthers

Then its the Habs/Sabres

Then at the bottom Wings/Sens

So the Sabres are fighting for a WC spot as the best case scenario. They're fighting with whoever misses the Atlantic top 3 and assuming the Metro top 3 stays the same for simplicity they have to be better than 6 of these teams, who all (outside of CBJ) drastically improved this offseason:

Panthers
Habs
Hurricanes
Blue Jackets
Flyers
Rangers
Devils

Thats where Sabres fans lose me. You improved, cool, but barely. And those who say take baby steps developing, this will be Jack Eichel's 6th season. 6! I'll be watching for the Eichel trade request to happen before they make the playoffs.

Edited: 5th season. I cant count.

You just said you can’t count.

I guess that’s why you’re saying sabres fans will be wanting Eichel traded after he’s put up 201 Pts in his last 203 games from season 2-4 after leading a team with no secondary scoring, defense, goaltending or coaching.

But you say 6th! Like he’s going into already HIS 6th season! As if he’s been there forever....uh, he’s played four and two he missed 1/4th of the year and as I said hasn’t had the luxury of a team around him.

Do Edmonton fans blame mcdavid or demand he leave when they miss?

Besides Eichel plays 1/3rd of the game, that’s Means for over 65 percent of game buffalo Dressed an abysmal roster and you wonder why they haven’t made the playoffs?

So no keep miscalculating things and whatnot, you have no idea how good he is and can be or what our fans think of him. If you see the odd sabres fan bashing him it’s due to us holding him in a higher regard that most since we know his worth and with that comes amazing accountability, plus sabres fans are tied of Losing. With Eichel literally being two points off from being PPG the past three years which were only
His second third and fourth seasons With those injuries and no help, playing for a team that scored a league low In goals I could only imagine the numbers he’d put up on a high flying offense like Tampa, or if he had another scoring line and wasn’t matched against every teams top tier defensemen way and every shift. He’s that good
Whether you like it or not.

No one would demand him to be traded, there would be thirty teams lining up and there are only players on one hand I’d trade him for.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

You just said you can’t count.

I guess that’s why you’re saying sabres fans will be wanting Eichel traded after he’s put up 201 Pts in his last 203 games from season 2-4 (following two ankles to boot) after leading a team with no secondary scoring, defense, goaltending or coaching.

But you say 6th! Like he’s going into already HIS 6th season! As if he’s been there forever....uh, he’s played four and two he missed 1/4th of the year and as I said hasn’t had the luxury of a team around him.

Do Edmonton fans blame mcdavid or demand he leave when they miss?

Besides Eichel plays 1/3rd of the game, that’s Means for over 65 percent of game buffalo Dressed an abysmal roster and you wonder why they haven’t made the playoffs?

So no keep miscalculating things and whatnot, you have no idea how good he is and can be or what our fans think of him. If you see the odd sabres fan bashing him it’s due to us holding him in a higher regard that most since we know his worth and with that comes amazing accountability, plus sabres fans are tied of Losing. With Eichel literally being two points off from being PPG the past three years which were only
His second third and fourth seasons With those injuries and no help, playing for a team that scored a league low In goals I could only imagine the numbers he’d put up on a high flying offense like Tampa, or if he had another scoring line and wasn’t matched against every teams top tier defensemen way and every shift. He’s that good
Whether you like it or not.

No one would demand him to be traded, there would be thirty teams lining up and there are only players on one hand I’d trade him for.

I was referring to Eichel requesting a trade, not the fans. I never once said anything bad about Eichel. He's a badass and I'm a huge fan of his. But 5 seasons and zero playoffs isn't much better than 6. And to compare to McDavid, does anyone bash him? No they bash the joke of a franchise he plays for. Similar to Eichel.

Its like you look for any reason to jo Eichel. No one outside of leafs fans trolling are saying anything negative about his on ice play. Hes awesome and his team sucks.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

I was referring to Eichel requesting a trade, not the fans. I never once said anything bad about Eichel. He's a badass and I'm a huge fan of his. But 5 seasons and zero playoffs isn't much better than 6. And to compare to McDavid, does anyone bash him? No they bash the joke of a franchise he plays for. Similar to Eichel.

Its like you look for any reason to jo Eichel. No one outside of leafs fans trolling are saying anything negative about his on ice play. Hes awesome and his team sucks.

I don’t go around looking for
Reasons to “jo” Eichel, not sure what that was meant to say but I’ll assume you mean praise or bring up Eichel, I’ve posted on these forums longer then probably half The boards have watched the NHL and discuss many different topics. Why wouldn’t it be relevant to discuss him in this thread? Lol


And again you got how many years he’s played in wrong it’s just four seasons, and as you admit he’s tried to make the best out of bad circumstances.

Even if you’re not cracking at him others do and it Makes no sense, so forgive me if I elaborate on why it’s ridiculous to suggest things when people do it all the time. I don’t get the hypocrisy, It’s not like tavares was crucified all those years never making the playoffs on the island except one or two times after years and years without.

I mean Eichel literally improved his team the first year he joined because they finished dead last the year before he arrived by like over ten points I believe. I mean like I said even as is he plays 1/3rd a game it’s Kind of hard in that scenario to make the playoffs wth no Depth scoring, goaltending or defense, not to mention coaching .....and throughout those four years his best linemate he’s had this entire time has a career high is 63 points which he got playing with Jack Eichel. I’m Reiterating this to you not only because you agree with me but for people Who actually haven’t looked at his brief Four year History properly. I mean what he is supposed to do that mcdavid hasn’t, I just briefly (for me lol) looked at his team in those four years and it’s pretty interesting what I found....


In those four years, two of them were wrecked because of injury and both times he spent the other part of the year recovering from injury (and playing incredible despite this) you saw the improvement in year one after them being dead last the year before the jumped quite a lot. I’m certainly aware Matthews took a team from dead last to the playoffs the next year in his rookie season which was a similar team point jump buffalo got from the addition of Eichel too,, difference being they just made the playoffs...but he also had the additions that season of Marner Nylander Zaitsev (who was good in his first year) and most importantly a starting goalie, something Eichel never has had as Lehrer battled personal issuss.

I like this fact the most right here, In year two he couldn’t of done anything about the team being bad because his season didn’t start the year, tripped over girgensens stick backwards spraining his ankle and missing two and a half months. Despite this at 19 In his second season playing just four and a half months he almost went PPG (0.95) still finished ahead of Mackinnon in points after he played a whole year, and ahead of mcdavid in transition rushes which is insane as this was mcdavids first full season at 100 points and he is the master at that. Jack finished eleventh that year in points per game too.

Fun fact actually: because he was 11th in PPG in just his 2nd season he actually missed out on a two million dollar bonus in His contract because draisaitl got an assist on mcdavids empty netter on the last day of the year putting Leon as tenth best. Lol

In year 3 he got injured halfway through and by the time the time he returned Buffalo was so far out of it they couldn’t recover. Then in year 4, they were first overall in early December then took a nose dive. No secondary scoring, he had over fifty more Pts then the second line center and goaltending went to hell with our best dman being 18 and no coaching again lol....

So no it will be his 5th and we will see but as I’ve pointed it out above, of those 4 years in only 2 he could “realistically” made a Taylor Hall New Jersey I’ll take you there run. One when he was a rookie and the other last year and to be honest when he got injured in December for two weeks this year buffalo was well in a playoff spot, so it’s not as bad as people think. And while frustrated I think even he realizes this and will not talk about being moved until say least the end of Year six. And that’s just talk and I doubt it would be made publically unlike some others...

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Not that it's a huge difference, but this is Eichels 5th season.

For what it's worth I have them 5th in the Atlantic. Whether that's good enough to sneak into the WC, I'm not sure.

Tampa
Toronto
Boston
Florida
Buffalo
Montreal
Detroit
Ottawa

Almost my predictions with 2 and 3 different.

 

[Canadienna]

Buffalo Montreal and Florida will keep Boston Toronto and Tampa honest.

I think the whole Atlantic is pretty darn good this year. Buffalo could be better than Montreal, and they could both make the playoffs, or both miss with ~95 points.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Buffalo Montreal and Florida will keep Boston Toronto and Tampa honest.

I think the whole Atlantic is pretty darn good this year. Buffalo could be better than Montreal, and they could both make the playoffs, or both miss with ~95 points.

The entire East is pretty solid with Tampa being the only heavy favorites. Here is my prediction:

1. Lightning
2. Leafs
3. Bruins

1. Capitals
2. Penguins
3. Hurricanes

7. Flyers
8. Panthers

9. Islanders
10. Rangers
11. Devils
12. Canadiens
13. Sabres
14. Red Wings
15. Blue Jackets
16. Senators

 

[EveryDay]

Comparing these two rosters, I would REALLY like to say Buffalo has the "better" roster, and if all players on the Sabres played up to their potential, I would say 'yes, Buffalo is looking better than Montreal overall"

However, Buffalo has had "potential" for a few seasons now and, as some have already mentioned, the team doesn't quite come together like you would think they would.
This off season they added some nice players (and did so during the year last season), but STILL the roster is full of question marks.
---Who will stop pucks consistently?
---Will anyone besides the top line score consistently?
---Will Ristolainen quit crying about 'not helping the team' and actually DO something on the ice that suggests he can?
---Is Kyle Okposo going to play like the guy they are paying him to be?
---Will young players like Reinhart, Vesey, and Middlestadt stop being 'potential' and just be what people have been saying they COULD be???

See, with all the issues the Habs have as well, they still sport some nicely talented players, DO play a better overall team game, have some solid vets manning key positions on the team, and when you have a goalie like Carey Price, even if the rest of the team is an inconsistent, dull PP mess, he can steal games the Habs have no business winning.

So until the Sabres can show they are all rowing in the same direction and their talent is actually shining through instead of just looking good on paper, it is hard for me to buy into Buffalo being better than Montreal.
From where I sit, the Habs, today, and probably when the season starts, is "better".
The onus is now on the Sabres to prove differently.

You know MTL was one of the most dominant team last season 5 on 5 right? they were dominating the opponent most of the game and they would have make the playoff if their ugly PP could have been just average.... Carey Price was pretty good but the difference was MTL forwards, mainly the top9. The line of Tatar-Danault-Gallagher was probably the best line in the NHL last year 5on5, they had the puck around 65% of the time and that line will probably be back together next year.

On paper MTL forwards are better and deeper, Carey Price is a top 3 goaltender in the NHL and both befence are pretty close but Weber remain the best defenceman between both teams and Petry is at least as good as Dahlin for the moment. If I had to rank the top4 defenceman of each team it would be as follow:

Weber
Petry/Dahlin
Ristolainen
Miller
Montour
Mete
Chiarot or Kulak

I give the edge to Buffalo but MTL defender are much better defensively.

I believe MTL will hit around 100 points next season and Buffalo 85 points.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

You know MTL was one of the most dominant team last season 5 on 5 right? they were dominating the opponent most of the game and they would have make the playoff if their ugly PP could have been just average.... Carey Price was pretty good but the difference was MTL forwards, mainly the top9. The line of Tatar-Danault-Gallagher was probably the best line in the NHL last year 5on5, they had the puck around 65% of the time and that line will probably be back together next year.

On paper MTL forwards are better and deeper, Carey Price is a top 3 goaltender in the NHL and both befence are pretty close but Weber remain the best defenceman between both teams and Petry is at least as good as Dahlin for the moment. If I had to rank the top4 defenceman of each team it would be as follow:

Weber
Petry/Dahlin
Ristolainen
Miller
Montour
Mete
Chiarot or Kulak

I give the edge to Buffalo but MTL defender are much better defensively.

I believe MTL will hit around 100 points next season and Buffalo 85 points.

MTL forwards are better + MTL Goaltending is better + MTL defenders are better = give the edge to Buffalo?

 

[EveryDay]

MTL forwards are better + MTL Goaltending is better + MTL defenders are better = give the edge to Buffalo?

I should have say I give the edge to Buffalo offensively regarding defenceman, thats it.

MTL have a better team on the ice and on paper.

 

[JungleBeat]

Buffalo is better. The Habs overachieved and have no elite talent aside from Weber.

 

[DFAC]

Buffalo is better. The Habs overachieved and have no elite talent aside from Weber.

Price?

And to answer OP from a neutral fan - no

 

[Panthaz89]

You know MTL was one of the most dominant team last season 5 on 5 right? they were dominating the opponent most of the game and they would have make the playoff if their ugly PP could have been just average.... Carey Price was pretty good but the difference was MTL forwards, mainly the top9. The line of Tatar-Danault-Gallagher was probably the best line in the NHL last year 5on5, they had the puck around 65% of the time and that line will probably be back together next year.

On paper MTL forwards are better and deeper, Carey Price is a top 3 goaltender in the NHL and both befence are pretty close but Weber remain the best defenceman between both teams and Petry is at least as good as Dahlin for the moment. If I had to rank the top4 defenceman of each team it would be as follow:

Weber
Petry/Dahlin
Ristolainen
Miller
Montour
Mete
Chiarot or Kulak

I give the edge to Buffalo but MTL defender are much better defensively.

I believe MTL will hit around 100 points next season and Buffalo 85 points.

Yeah we saw Montreal 4x alone with the Sabres their lines aren't nearly as good as you think.....and they certainly got whooped when they faced the Sabres top line h2h. We also faced the real best lines on the other teams in the Atlantic if anything they probably have the 2nd worst "best line" in the division and Boston, TB, and Toronto's top line dwarfs them.

 

[sharks9]

Yeah we saw Montreal 4x alone with the Sabres their lines aren't nearly as good as you think.....and they certainly got whooped when they faced the Sabres top line h2h. We also faced the real best lines on the other teams in the Atlantic if anything they probably have the 2nd worst "best line" in the division and Boston, TB, and Toronto's top line dwarfs them.

Can't find specific stats vs. Buffalo's top line but Gallagher and Tatar were over 60% CF in every game against Buffalo this year, so they definitely weren't getting whooped by them. Danault's are worse but that's because he had some rough oZone start percentages.

 

[EveryDay]

Yeah we saw Montreal 4x alone with the Sabres their lines aren't nearly as good as you think.....and they certainly got whooped when they faced the Sabres top line h2h. We also faced the real best lines on the other teams in the Atlantic if anything they probably have the 2nd worst "best line" in the division and Boston, TB, and Toronto's top line dwarfs them.

As I think? pretty funny.... Its not what I think, its the proof of advanced stats including corsi.

MTL was one of the most dominant team last year 5on5, sorry to burst your bubble, ask anyone who knows anything about hockey, they'll tell you. We were awful on the PP and pretty average on the PK. Toronto Boston anf TB didn't have any easy game against MTL last year but they were toying with Buffalo.

Go take a look at advanced stats last year 5on5, MTL is at the top of evrey category while Buffalo.....

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

As I think? pretty funny.... Its not what I think, its the proof of advanced stats including corsi.

MTL was one of the most dominant team last year 5on5, sorry to burst your bubble, ask anyone who knows anything about hockey, they'll tell you. We were awful on the PP and pretty average on the PK. Toronto Boston anf TB didn't have any easy game against MTL last year but they were toying with Buffalo.

Go take a look at advanced stats last year 5on5, MTL is at the top of evrey category while Buffalo.....

Bruins beating the Habs 4-0 on December 17th in Montreal was one of their most dominant efforts on the year. Habs looked absolutely terrible. One of the few regular season games I remember very well.

I don’t have too much to say about the rest of your post, but giving your oozing confidence in your own opinion, I felt the need to burst your bubble.

 

[EveryDay]

Bruins beating the Habs 4-0 on December 17th in Montreal was one of their most dominant efforts on the year. Habs looked absolutely terrible. One of the few regular season games I remember very well.

I don’t have too much to say about the rest of your post, but giving your oozing confidence in your own opinion, I felt the need to burst your bubble.

Ohh noooo MTL had a bad game this year against the Bruins? I'm wrong then..... Did MTL beat Boston also 3-0 on October? I guess it was an easy game......

 

[Lshap]

Yeah we saw Montreal 4x alone with the Sabres their lines aren't nearly as good as you think.....and they certainly got whooped when they faced the Sabres top line h2h. We also faced the real best lines on the other teams in the Atlantic if anything they probably have the 2nd worst "best line" in the division and Boston, TB, and Toronto's top line dwarfs them.

Montreal finished 20 points higher than Buffalo. It'll take more than wishful thinking to leap over that chasm. Neither team made substantial changes and no players had exceptional or unsustainable seasons. Both teams have very good prospects and young players, but it's unlikely one group of kids will be so much better or worse for Buffalo to overtake Montreal.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Leafs are 100% locks. And no their roster has definitely not downgraded considering we finally got our 1st pairing Dman we've been clamoring for years. Makes no sense

They may have upgraded with Barrie, but they also downgraded by the following:

Top 4D Gardiner > Nothing
Hainsey > Holl
Zaitsev > Ceci
Marleau > Spezza
Brown > nothing
Kadri >> Kerfoot

Now add in Dermott and Hyman both missing time to start the season, and it’s not hard to argue that they’re actually a worse team on paper this coming season.

They lost a top 4D, two top 6D (who played top 4 for them), two 3rd line W, a #2C and only replaced them with a #3D and a #3c/w
Along with waiver wire type players.

They could easily be in a battle for the playoffs. Leaf fans seem to forget they only made the playoffs by 3pts last season...

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I just don't see how anybody can realistically see Buffalo closing a 20 point gap on Montreal especially when you realize that to pass Montreal nt onl does Buffalo have to deal with Toronto, Tampa , Florida and Boston in their own division , arguably the toughest division in the but beyond Toronto and Florida loading up in the Atlantic you still was Pittsburgh, and Washing as the class of the Metro and NJ, Philadelphia , the Rangers and devils all getting significant upgrades to their roster.

Buffalo does have a have a better roster but the east as a whole as loaded up so mch that I don't know that it matters, Buffalo is in a

 

[LeafGrief]

They may have upgraded with Barrie, but they also downgraded by the following:

Top 4D Gardiner > Nothing
Hainsey > Holl
Zaitsev > Ceci
Marleau > Spezza
Brown > nothing
Kadri >> Kerfoot

Now add in Dermott and Hyman both missing time to start the season, and it’s not hard to argue that they’re actually a worse team on paper this coming season.

They lost a top 4D, two top 6D (who played top 4 for them), two 3rd line W, a #2C and only replaced them with a #3D and a #3c/w
Along with waiver wire type players.

They could easily be in a battle for the playoffs. Leaf fans seem to forget they only made the playoffs by 3pts last season...

Oh please, at least try to be a little objective. Leafs lost a top4 D but even you point out that we replaced our #2C with a #3D. Good grief. Marleau was awful last year, Brown scored 8 goals. I'd have loved if we could keep Brown, but I'm not going to pretend that a 29 point player is irreplaceable. We'll have Muzzin for an entire season. We'll have Nylander for an entire season. Our defense is massively upgraded from one year ago (Muzzin and Barrie). We had to let some guys go, but we upgraded our defense which everyone and their mum loves to say was our Achilles heel. You think that Hainsey and Gardiner were the irreplaceable pieces? Come on.

Muzzin > Gardiner
Barrie >>> Zaitsev
Ceci << Hainsey - Sucks to lose Hainsey
Mikheyev or Moore = Brown
Spezza = Marleau at worst. Seriously, Marleau was cooked.
Kerfoot << Kadri
Random #6 = Ozhiganov

 

[nbwingsfan]

Oh please, at least try to be a little objective. Leafs lost a top4 D but even you point out that we replaced our #2C with a #3D. Good grief. Marleau was awful last year, Brown scored 8 goals. I'd have loved if we could keep Brown, but I'm not going to pretend that a 29 point player is irreplaceable. We'll have Muzzin for an entire season. We'll have Nylander for an entire season. Our defense is massively upgraded from one year ago (Muzzin and Barrie). We had to let some guys go, but we upgraded our defense which everyone and their mum loves to say was our Achilles heel. You think that Hainsey and Gardiner were the irreplaceable pieces? Come on.

Muzzin > Gardiner
Barrie >>> Zaitsev
Ceci << Hainsey - Sucks to lose Hainsey
Mikheyev or Moore = Brown
Spezza = Marleau at worst. Seriously, Marleau was cooked.
Kerfoot << Kadri
Random #6 = Ozhiganov

No... you replaced your #4D with a #3D.

It’s hikarious that you think Marleau was “cooked” yet had seasons of 27G/47pts and 16G/37pts... but Spezza and his back to back 8G/27pts will be an obvious improvement

Whether you like it or not, Muzzin was on the team last season for a good portion of the year, and the Leafs showed an actual decrease in play when he joined.

Sure Nylander will hopefully be improved, but that’s far from a guarantee. I’ve never seen a player need half a season to regain form just because of a holdout. Didn’t affect other holdout players nearly the same.

There was a LOT of depth that the Leafs lost this season.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Ohh noooo MTL had a bad game this year against the Bruins? I'm wrong then..... Did MTL beat Boston also 3-0 on October? I guess it was an easy game......

I am simply responding to you saying that none of the top teams had ANY EASY GAMES against Montreal. Not saying that Montreal never played a single good game...

 

[wetcoast]

Buffalo has the 2 most valuable commodities and hardest things to find, franchise center and D in Eichel and Dahlin.

But MTL has been depth and more of a winning culture.

Wouldn’t be shocked if either finished ahead of other in standings but would put more weight in MTL doing so.

I think goaltending gives Montreal the edge but Buffalo has the 2 best players and they are young and still getting better.

I'd rather have Buffalo's roster if I were a coach or GM.