Is Buffalo's Roster Better Than Montreal ?

NJ DevLolz

The Many Saints of Newark
Sep 30, 2017
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5,400
That list really isn't that impressive. Take off Hughes who hasn't stepped on NHL ice yet and it goes from hopeful to ugly real fast.
Hmm?

Hischier is a borderline 1C at 20
Bratt just scored at .6 ppg at 20 on an abomination of a team (injuries)
Severson and Butcher are top 4 dmen
Jesper Boqvist led the SHL in ES points at 20 on an awful team
Miles Wood and Pavel Zacha are proven valuable bottom 6ers
Ty Smith won CHL dman of the year at 18 years old
 
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typicalsavage

Registered User
Oct 31, 2018
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Give Mitts time. Risto isn't that bad and i'd take Reinhart. Also you can't just completely disregard some guys because they haven't played in the NHL yet or only half of a season.

Find me someone who isn't a Leafs fan who would take Matthews/Marner over Dahlin/Eichel.

Eichel's contract > Matthew's contract (maybe Marner's too depending on what it is)

Eichesl contract is only better cause of the term, but Matthews is a way better player than Eichel was when he signed the deal.
 

Tage2Tuch

Because TheJackAttack is in Black
May 10, 2004
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This is how the Sabres head coach is gonna look like walking into their locker room this season:

View attachment 250065


I have a feeling this could also be your expression when you look at the standings one day always expecting them to be “edmonton”

I find it rich the people who Come on here to bash buffalo and it’s losing culture are fans of teams that don’t win anything of significance Themselves. It’s almost like a “get them before They can get me.” I have no clue if that’s you or not but it wouldn’t surprise me.
 
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OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,271
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I like the devil but non of those guys are better than eichel/dahlin

Eichel
Reinhart
Dahlin
MIttlestadt
Risto
pilut
jokihariu
Johnson
oloffson
thompson
smith
cozen
UPL
Laaksonen
Bryson
borgen
GIRGENSON

And of your list, I would only take Reinhart, Eichel, and Dahlin over them.
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,271
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I'd take Gallagher anytime. 30 goals scorer, futur captain, true leader, nose for the net, one of the best on 5vs5.

Like both players, but I’ll take Reinhart’s consistent improving game at 23 over Gallagher at this point. Reinhart also has the nose for the net, and makes those players he plays with better at a younger age.

For a guy that plays the front of the net a lot, he’s done pretty well getting on average 20+ goals and 25-30+ assists.

But don’t get me wrong, I’d love for Gallagher to be on the team and I love his game.
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,271
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Not high on cozen johnson oloffson UPL Mitts Jokihariu pilut ?

Not as much as the NJD guys.

Edit: not to mention, I doubt Buffalo gets the most that is possible out of any of those guys.

I trust NJ to do better with their players
 

lauraP

Registered User
Aug 4, 2019
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Not as much as the NJD guys.

Edit: not to mention, I doubt Buffalo gets the most that is possible out of any of those guys.

I trust NJ to do better with their players
One by one buffalo's player are just better / have more potential than most of jerseys players
 
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xNogaitx

Akuna Matata.
Sep 9, 2017
762
285
Edmonton
Lol you can debate if the Leafs will ever win a 1st rd series...but to say they're not a playoff lock going into next season is straight-up laughable.

Dont let your general hate for the leafs skew common sense

My reasoning behind it they were the last Atlantic team to make it last year. And you can reasonably argue that their roster has slightly downgraded over last year while all 3 of Panthers, Canadiens, and Sabres have improved.

I didn't say they won't make the playoffs for sure. But I wouldn't consider them locks, rather they'll be fighting for those last two WC spots which may lead them to miss if the Metropolitan slides in 4 or 5 teams in.
 

xNogaitx

Akuna Matata.
Sep 9, 2017
762
285
Edmonton
You rank Leafs that low? I think they rank 3rd in division much ahead of 4th and another first round with Boston. Fall off like Hans last year? Habs overachieved if anything and their roster is far ahead of what Habs was last year.

I've answered it already but my point isn't necessarily about the Habs vs. the Leafs but rather the Atlantic as a whole.

Leafs' roster has downgraded. Up front their forward group was weakened to accomodate the big salaries and they no longer have the "big 3" down the middle.

On defense for me this is more of a lateral move and a "last attempt" at having something half decent until starting next year and for the next 2-3 years you may see thee Leafs drop awaiting to regain cap space to fill their defensive corps with players other than replacement level.

And in net they have Andersen whose stats put him in the 15-25 range among starters, and then they drop to guys that aren't NHL quality anymore. One injury to Andersen and they could drop like flies.

So taking those things into consideration, with Buffalo getting better, the Habs youth likely due for a breakout, and most importantly the Panthers for me have a roster that's much more complete than any other team among those I just discussed and I see them being that 3rd lock almost team in the Atlantic. They are much better in net & depth at G than Toronto, they have an overall defense that's better, and albeit not as much start power upfront, they are much more deep.

Panthers will surprise many this year.
 

OVO16

#WeTheNorth
Apr 16, 2017
9,964
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My reasoning behind it they were the last Atlantic team to make it last year. And you can reasonably argue that their roster has slightly downgraded over last year while all 3 of Panthers, Canadiens, and Sabres have improved.

I didn't say they won't make the playoffs for sure. But I wouldn't consider them locks, rather they'll be fighting for those last two WC spots which may lead them to miss if the Metropolitan slides in 4 or 5 teams in.

Leafs are 100% locks. And no their roster has definitely not downgraded considering we finally got our 1st pairing Dman we've been clamoring for years. Makes no sense
 

holy

2023-2024 Cup CHamps
May 22, 2017
7,116
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I have a feeling this could also be your expression when you look at the standings one day always expecting them to be “edmonton”

I find it rich the people who Come on here to bash buffalo and it’s losing culture are fans of teams that don’t win anything of significance Themselves. It’s almost like a “get them before They can get me.” I have no clue if that’s you or not but it wouldn’t surprise me.
Nah, it was just a joke on Jeff Skinner's name tbh, I don't dislike the Sabres.

Although I will clown them from time to time.

I blame Daniel Briere. Neither team has been particularly good since he played for them.
 

lifeisruff

Registered User
Oct 29, 2009
1,853
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wny
Another point on Buffalo is I'm not sure who plays defense.

Scandella, Bogosian and Ristolainen are still here mind you. And if they play a lot I don't think the difference in D between Montreal is all that great. (if they even are better).

A top six of

Dahlin: Miller
McCabe: Montour
Pilut: Ristolainen/Jokiharju

would be much better then Montreal's D,

(Statement predicated on Dahlin taking an expected big leap forward and Pilut playing like he did before he was sent back to Rochester last year.)

but this lineup only exists if Sabres value possession stats over seniority. Otherwise, Pilut and Jokiharju will waste away in Rochester and we'll have a D which is only incrementally better then the mediocre D we had last year.
 
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The Podium

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
22,956
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Toronto
And Matthews and Marner? That’s better then Eichel dahlin mittlestadt Reinhart cozens Jokiharju montour ristolainen, Ullmark and arguably the best goalie prospect in the world right now in Luukonen not too mention Olofsson who lead the shl in scoring, and Edmonton? PleAse tell me your joking on that one. Broberg and Bouchard is cool, nurse too, and the big two but it gets veeeeerrry thin after that.

Matthews => Eichel
Rielly >> Ristolainen
Marner >>> Mittlestadt
Nylander => Rienhart
Sandin << Dahlin
Dermott > Montour
Andresen >> Ullmark
Bracco > Olofsson

Liljegren < Cozens
X < Jokiharju
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
45,636
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Oh man....just going to ask how you have possibly been saying for years “until buffalo gets a number two center they will struggle” for years and years, lol when before They had ROR? Once again you don’t make any sense, I don’t mean that to be rude
It’s just your logic doesent fit, and it also doesent fit about Olofsson having “done nothing”, which I elaborate on below. You also didn’t say Buffalo would struggle as our main point of disagreement you came in here acting like this was a silly argument to ask, calling the threads integrity into question as If it was such a stretch. Then you want to tell me that you’re not a Sabres basher when you’ve done it in every thread regarding them, multiple times in the past Year or two? Often when unprovoked and almost always unnecessary. You even ignore the possibility of mittlestadt and his development becoming that 2C, he absolutely is great and has that potential, if you’d of watched him play last year you’d know he was amazing even in games he didn’t even get points. On buffalo Like Eichel you can sometimes be the best player On the ice in a game and can end up after the game with 0 points. It happens, those totals you saw initially are not everything or Mackinnon wouldn’t be looked at as a top Five player, he’d be damned by his first 5 years. Yes they were better then Casey’s first year but they had very different potential/expectations as a first and seventh overall pick. I’m not even suggesting it will happen but you are completely ruling out the possibility. Why? I thought you didn’t bash the sabres? Since when does a players ability when they are young solely rest on what they were the year before? I’m not even saying the sabres will be good this year, but again you rule these possibilities out like they’re fact, which ultimately all your doing is proving the agenda I said you had to be right.

This is all about proving to you that someone asking if Buffalo could be better then MONTREAL isn’t “hilarious” in the slightest. Which is again what you suggested then when I responded, you
Never touched on why that was. As I said before, habs and sabres fans have kept this civil. LEAF fans, I hate grouping you guys like that by 3-4 of you have come in here and said: Things like: = there’s no argument for it honestly” - CLWM.... “Habs>-Sabres because anything> Sabres” ...”Lol is this a joke, buffalo will be a bottom feeder like always”....And lastly you “this is hilarious, buffalo bashfest. Etc x 4 repeat” it’s so redundant guys, we get it the leafs are the be all end all and buffalo will Always be trash. We apologize that every person on this forum doesen’t agree with such a novel concept.


And people wonder why many use terms like “leaf fans”.... this has nothing to do With them and while Montreal and buffalo fans are being civil (we both know there’s a chance either teams could be better) it’s Those four Toronto fans who haven’t.

So again, there’s a distinct difference between a team struggling and a team being in contention with one that finished just 5th in the division last year while Buffalo finished 6th. Many of you thought Montreal would be a bottom feeder last
Year Too, ...How did that Turn out? So I don’t see how it’s so inconceivable to suggest that with these teams spots literally beside each other last season couldn’t be switched, especially after offseason acquisitions, a coaching change and BUFS two best players who have both top ten in the game potential are a year older in the right way, whilst Montreal’s best two are fragile and a year older in the wrong way. We’re talking about a “one spot shift” in the standings. ONE. That’s not hilarious whether it’s buffalo and Montreal, Tampa bay and Boston, or Ottawa and Detroit.


The forward crop has most certainly improved and that second line you touched on, whether it’s Mitts with Vesey, Okposo, Thompson, Sheary, Johansson or any combination of Olofsson/Reinhart or skinner/Rodrigues , literally, there’s 8 guys Mitts could play with and one of Them should work. The other should be Johansson with both Marcus and Casey, and with them both being good at other things then just point totals you point to from both being pretty low, even If mittlestadtt gets just 15-20 more Pts in his second season coming up he will be a legit 2C. So because at 19 in his rookie year he didn’t establish that with awful linemates he’s suddenly a bum and not with mentioning, got it. Let’s start ruling out everyone before their second season since you’ve done that with Ullmark, Mittlestadt, you’re even doing that with guys like Olofsson who have yet to join the team and I can’t wait to get to that as it’s the best part.

Saying Carter Hutton wasn’t the guy doesent make you a genius. He wasn’t terrible Last year, the team was terrible, worst coached year in the history of the franchise not one move in the lineup, or Timeout or challenge, or anything....Huron started Off amazing and then due to his inexperience of playing that Much behind a weaker defense to boot, he couldn’t keep up. Predicting the sabres to suck every year in net isn’t exactly very bold or worthy of bragging rights considering they haven’t had a goalie Since Miller who had proven to be legit. I said above in another post that Hutton can be a solid backup Which he’s proven to be and he’s now in a Contract year, one more fact you completely overlooked. Behind a different coaching system to one that hasn’t worked as well as an improved overall team he could do great in the back up role where he fits best, especially with motivation galore in money in a contract year potentially for the last time. You know he will wasn’t to cash out. Ullmark could turn into a number one goalie, just like mittlestadt could also turn into a number two center. Saying buffalo doesn't have these things as gospel is ridiculous. They don’t have it going in but they could have it As Soon as The puck Drops.I don’t know if you didn’t read what I said about both Ullmark and UPL, I gave several Reasons why they could obtain those spots but holy god man, both were kids who played just one year on a bad teAm. They showed signs last year and have potential in spades. Ukko Pekka Luukonen is one of the best goaltending prospects in the world m, him potentially joining that improved environment could also be a surprise.


Finally, (saving the best for last) Victor olofsson has loads of potential. To say he “hasn’t done anything” and then to further and try and justify THAT as why you ignored him is completely asinine. I find it more believable you either forgot him, or don’t know Who he Was. I completely disagree he’s done nothing. That’s what you say about a player who’s been called up and hasn’t produced at the pro level. If someone was bragging about their ahl numbers but didn’t produce in the NHL despite given a chance, then that’s what you can say about player that he’s done nothing. Tage Thompson, while having potential you could say “has done nothing.” At least not worthy of being a first round pick, see the difference? No? (Because you don’t want too) here’s another example/reason perhaps better explaining that, ....when Petterson broke forsbergs records in that league but hadn’t played in the NHL yet would you of said “nah not gonna list him, he’s done NOTHING.” Last year during Canuck previews? Of course not.

Olofsson not only lead that league in scoring and before I go on (just so we’re all clear I’m not Saying he’s On EP level, not delusional) ....but both did remarkable things in the Same league and not have a crazy shot and I’m just illustrating a point to you that because someone Hasn’t played NHL Games doesen’t mean he hasn’t done anything so let’s just not mention him. The funny thing about that too actually is that he HAS had some brief NHL Experience, and what did the kid do. He sniped here too When given the chance getting a few points in a few games, Continuing to produce every single place he’s gone. And that was on a Buffalo team Who were in free fall at the time.

So if you’re going to discuss both teams depth it would be highly Foolish to discount him, with that sick shot and playmakers like Eichel and dahlin on the PP? Look out. The guy could absolutely Get over 20 goals so it’s ignorant to Just say “he’s done nothing” it’s Not just that he just scored thirty times in the AHL. Or your sparks comment would hold more true. If he’s given a chance on a longer schedule and falls Flat, use that argument then. As of now he’s a threat with plenty of potential because he’s done it everywhere he’s gone and done it wel, hasn’t stopped, and he’s joining a situation that’s going to benefit him totally and completely. Buffalo is a team where someone like HIM actually could jump on any line 1-3 because of the depth issues and could excel because he has the opportunity now with that amazing shot to go in a line with jack Eichel and Sam Reinhart, or Johansson and mittlestadt, with offensive dmen like Dahlin Risto Montour Jokiharju, imagine him on the powerplay in those circumstances with some elite playmakers. And you’re going to tell me it’s fine to ignore him when discussing depth. Okay, sure....let’s just ignore Gusev, Kakko...(again not saying he will be on KKs level I’m just making a point) let’s ignore everyone while we’re at it. Olofsson actually has proven he could hang with the games elite in the few chances he was given. As long as he continues to do well everywhere you absolutely Can’t discredt the guy as potentially being a good depth piece this year. Which is exactly what you did and backed it up with a reason as I just proved makers absolutely zero sense, other then proving you DO have an agenda against the sabres. As much as you say you don’t, these posts and your post history (since I use facts in my arguments) prove otherwise.

All this was about was to reiterate that it’s absolutely not hilarious to suggest that Buffalo could be better then montreal this year and you still stick to that hyperbolic comment despite the
Teams being right next to each other next year, then back up your claims by ignoring half of what buffalo has and very well could have. Okay....

Actually Montreal finished 4th in the division not 5th Florida was 5th.

So you have a problem with me calling it hilarious that Buffalo is going to make up a 20 point gap on Montreal, or at least that they could.

So that means that you believe that either Hutton or Ullmark, it doesn't really matter pick either guy you want, you believe that either guy is capable of beating, Andersen, Vasy, Rask, Price, Bobvrosky, and even Rask on consistent basis because that's what it's going to take, forget the rest of the east, or NHL those are the guys in the Atlantic those are the guys that Buffalo would have to beat consistently and I don't think that 1 on 1 Hutton or Ullmark can do it, they don't match up to the murders row that is the Atlantic goaltending pool.

Nor do I think the forwards match up to what Toronto, Tampa, Florida, Bostion can throw out there, sure you can toss out Skinner Eichel and Reinhart, but every team I mentioned can match or beat that line and they can all beat whatever you want to throw out for lines 2-4

Buffalo doesn't have the goaltending, or offensive depth to make the kind of jump you claim is possible they just don't .

and let me just quickly say that I'm all about the NHL what playrrs do in other league's doesn't matter to me The NHL is the only league that matters.

I can't wait to see how you spin this post into "Sabre bashing."
 

King Mapes

Sub to My YouTube Blocks_4_days
Feb 9, 2008
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I sincerely don't mean to pick on you guys personally, but this meme of the Habs overachieving or benefitting from career seasons has to be put to death once and for all.

Here are the facts: Toronto, Florida, Tampa, Boston, Carolina, NYI, and Buffalo all benefitted from multiple players with career-best seasons. In fact, career-best seasons happened all around the league. Check the stats -- each of these teams benefitted from career bumps. Montreal had no added advantage, no extra bump, no lucky break, no unsustainable spike that those other teams didn't also have. If you believe a team overachieved, the facts say it's one of those teams, not Montreal.

That includes health. Montreal was mid-pack for injury impact.

As I said, my frustration isn't directed at you two. This myth has been repeated by a number of people (including a few Habs fans) and parroted by others. A quick check shows that all the factors that supposedly helped Montreal, in fact, helped their competition even more.
So by that logic no team over achieved? I’m talking as a whole Montreal finished better than what I predicted they would. Therefor overachieved. As for Leaf players having career years... I’m sure they had a lot since, you know, all their top players are really young :laugh: I get what you’re saying I just think they did better than I thought they would.
 

King Mapes

Sub to My YouTube Blocks_4_days
Feb 9, 2008
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I've answered it already but my point isn't necessarily about the Habs vs. the Leafs but rather the Atlantic as a whole.

Leafs' roster has downgraded. Up front their forward group was weakened to accomodate the big salaries and they no longer have the "big 3" down the middle.

On defense for me this is more of a lateral move and a "last attempt" at having something half decent until starting next year and for the next 2-3 years you may see thee Leafs drop awaiting to regain cap space to fill their defensive corps with players other than replacement level.

And in net they have Andersen whose stats put him in the 15-25 range among starters, and then they drop to guys that aren't NHL quality anymore. One injury to Andersen and they could drop like flies.

So taking those things into consideration, with Buffalo getting better, the Habs youth likely due for a breakout, and most importantly the Panthers for me have a roster that's much more complete than any other team among those I just discussed and I see them being that 3rd lock almost team in the Atlantic. They are much better in net & depth at G than Toronto, they have an overall defense that's better, and albeit not as much start power upfront, they are much more deep.

Panthers will surprise many this year.
Toronto didn’t downgrade especially when you consider guys like AM, Marner and Nylander should continue to progress. Nylander was bad for awhile last year, they have him the whole year this year and he should be a lot better. You ranked Freddy I’m he 15-25 rank which for one is a huge difference and two, he’s better than that. One injury to the starter and they drop? Interesting. You can do that for almost any team.

Habs aren’t coming close. Youth due for a breakout? Like who?

I’ll give you Florida I don’t disagree they should be decent. But Habs? :laugh:

Buffalo? They have a losing culture and aren’t coming close.
 

HolyCrap

Registered User
Oct 2, 2015
5,064
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Toronto didn’t downgrade especially when you consider guys like AM, Marner and Nylander should continue to progress. Nylander was bad for awhile last year, they have him the whole year this year and he should be a lot better. You ranked Freddy I’m he 15-25 rank which for one is a huge difference and two, he’s better than that. One injury to the starter and they drop? Interesting. You can do that for almost any team.

Habs aren’t coming close. Youth due for a breakout? Like who?

I’ll give you Florida I don’t disagree they should be decent. But Habs? :laugh:

Buffalo? They have a losing culture and aren’t coming close.

I’m not arguing between Sabers and Habs as they could both be fighting for playoffs.

But the posters saying Leafs downgraded should be embarrassed. We upgraded our position of need. Sent our no show 3rd center out. And gained depth. All the while were a young team and Willy should have a better start. Muzzin was a late add lastyear. They could bomb as it happens with plenty of teams. But to say they downgraded is laughable.
 

Isaac Nootin

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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I've liked almost every move Buffalo has made this offseason outside of the Skinner contract. A team looking to improve/compete can not be paying secondary talent 9 million dollars a year. It completely ruined their salary structure. If Reinhart puts up another similar season, how do you pay him less than Skinner?

They still need to lock down their goaltending position, but I like the direction they're headed.
 
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Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
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So by that logic no team over achieved? I’m talking as a whole Montreal finished better than what I predicted they would. Therefor overachieved. As for Leaf players having career years... I’m sure they had a lot since, you know, all their top players are really young :laugh: I get what you’re saying I just think they did better than I thought they would.
The point is, why would the Habs be singled out as 'overachieving' when nobody on their team actually over-achieved? They had no more luck or unsustainable spikes than any other team, so why mention overachieving in the first place? Montreal finished where they deserved to finish.

I prefer your phrase, "Better than I thought", because it's honest. It acknowledges what most of us know: that most of our predictions suck. On the other hand, saying a team overachieved diminishes their success by implying they were helped along by luck.

If the Leafs have playoff success next season, I hope I have the grace to admit they were simply better than I thought, rather than dismiss them as overachievers.
 

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