Is Buffalo's Roster Better Than Montreal ?

Burke the Legend

Registered User
Feb 22, 2012
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It's great that Buffalo has some top end elite talent pieces and a killer first line (now very expensive one too) but it's not that easy as people think to put together a roster of quality bottom 9 forwards who have a strong compete culture, well coached and then the goaltending solution isn't going to fall out of the sky either. Buffalo still has a long way to go to get to Montreal/Florida's level, competing for playoff spots.
 

Spilot23

Registered User
Dec 30, 2014
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You can put all the arrows In the world but one thing I picked up on from this is that you’re severely underestimating the value of veteran leadership.

You either become one naturally from guiadance and characteristics passed on, (for some it’s natural for some not6) or you don’t...


Saying Marleau and Hainsey were bleh, is a bit ignorant. You don’t know the little things they did inside the room that may of helped the mentality of Matthews of Maner when frustrated. You can count kadri too but he wouldn’t be the best one to give advice in the heat of the moment but was an assset In other spots.

If you think guys like Marleau and hainsey were all about points and plus minus and corsi I don’t know where to go with this.

What goes on from The ice is only Half The story, You can even say the didn’t look good on the ice too. That’s not all that matters. Being mentally strong matters. Why did the blues go from dead last to the cup In a few months. You can say many things but that team every guy believed. Not Just in the cliche we want to win so “we Believe in our group” it’s why guys like Justin Williams is always valuable to a team.
As an Avs fan IMO the veteran leadership is overrated. When Roy was still there the team added Beauchemin, Iginla as their supposed leadership. If you watch the Avs roster in 2016-17, it isn't that much different from what we have right now. The major difference is that Sakic trusts his youngsters and traded or bought out those slow veterans like the two I mentioned (nothing against Beauchemin and Iginla they were amazing players in their prime), Tyutin, Mcleod or Rene Bourque. I'm pretty sure if we still were in that Roy era, Girard would've been stapled as a 3rd pairing D or even 7th dman behind Wiercioch and Tyutin :laugh: while Makar wouldn't have played a single game. Can't also deny those horrible "reclamation project" adds with the likes of Ghetto, Colborne, Gelinas or Grigorenko. Now they just develop their youngster and play them.

So IMO the lost of veterans in Marleau and Hainsey aren't gonna be significant as their youngster can take a spot. Nylander had a down year but I expect him to be alot better this season. They added one of the best offensive dman but don't know how Barrie will look. Will they get the season Barrie where he was terribly inconsistent or down the stretch Barrie where he was clutch and pretty good in both ends? How Kerfoot will look in the East? I just don't think the Leafs downgraded that much compared to last year where people said the lost of JVR, Komarov and Bozak will hurt them and Tavares won't have the production the three players combined had.

Edit : I forgot it was a Sabres/Habs thread my apologies can delete if I derailed the thread.
 

Royal Thunder

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Feb 21, 2012
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It's great that Buffalo has some top end elite talent pieces and a killer first line (now very expensive one too) but it's not that easy as people think to put together a roster of quality bottom 9 forwards who have a strong compete culture, well coached and then the goaltending solution isn't going to fall out of the sky either. Buffalo still has a long way to go to get to Montreal/Florida's level, competing for playoff spots.
It's intrigued that you think Montreal is on the same level as Florida. Florida has one of the best collections of talent up front in the entire league and have added Bob and Coach Q. They look ready to compete for a top 3 spot in the division to me. Montreal seems more like a bit of a ragtag team that overachieved (to their credit) by playing incredibly tight, structured hockey. Julien did a terrific job, but can they do it again? They're just not that impressive on paper :dunno:
 
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Burke the Legend

Registered User
Feb 22, 2012
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It's intrigued that you think Montreal is on the same level as Florida. Florida has one of the best collections of talent up front in the entire league and have added Bob and Coach Q. They look ready to compete for a top 3 spot in the division to me. Montreal seems more like a bit of a ragtag team that overachieved (to their credit) by playing incredibly tight, structured hockey. Julien did a terrific job, but can they do it again? They're just not that impressive on paper :dunno:

Not trying to be a homer here but Montreal put up 96 points and I'm not sure what happened that screams regression. I don't want to deal with hypotheticals but just stuff we can easily extrapolate with plain facts.

As for Florida the biggest improvement is goaltending. If Bobrosky can put up a .915+ save % (sub .900 for team last season) the reduced GA would go a long way to bring up the cats' goal differential to the level of a playoff team

Once you get into coaching it becomes more a guessing game. I'd rather not assume Florida is going to get some great boost from coach Q, that remains to be seen. Then at the same time why would you assume Montreal's system regresses? The Habs are mostly a young team and there's been very few changes to the roster. The only guy that screams overachievment was maybe Andrew Shaw's career year (although it's also been his first year in a while without concussion issues so it's possible he can maintain it). They seriously underachieved on their PP though.
 

Royal Thunder

Frolunda Mode
Feb 21, 2012
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Not trying to be a homer here but Montreal put up 96 points and I'm not sure what happened that screams regression. I don't want to deal with hypotheticals but just stuff we can easily extrapolate with plain facts.

As for Florida the biggest improvement is goaltending. If Bobrosky can put up a .915+ save % (sub .900 for team last season) the reduced GA would go a long way to bring up the cats' goal differential to the level of a playoff team

Once you get into coaching it becomes more a guessing game. I'd rather not assume Florida is going to get some great boost from coach Q, that remains to be seen. Then at the same time why would you assume Montreal's system regresses? The Habs are mostly a young team and there's been very few changes to the roster. The only guy that screams overachievment was maybe Andrew Shaw's career year (although it's also been his first year in a while without concussion issues so it's possible he can maintain it). They seriously underachieved on their PP though.
You don't think Domi is a prime candidate to regress a bit? Also Shaw is no longer on the team so they will have to replace that offense.

I think Montreal played as good as they could have last year and they still missed out. If they can maintain that level they could do it again, but if they slip even just a bit then their lack of high end talent could easily bump them to 6th or 7th in the division IMO. Of course with Carey Price anything is possible and you have to consider that.
 
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Panthaz89

Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
Dec 24, 2016
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The Panthers finished 10 points above the Sabres last year and substantially improved by adding Bobrovsky. Their forward group is much better than the Sabres and I don’t know many people who would prefer the Sabres defenseman over what the Panthers have.
They finished 10 points behind the Canadians...which hardly makes them contenders from a little upgrade at Goalie and hell yeah I would take the Sabres current D right now for sure.... the post didn't really have much to do with them being better than the Sabres/Canadians anyway its about challenging the top 3 which have better teams than Florida all around.
 

Tage2Tuch

Because TheJackAttack is in Black
May 10, 2004
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You're not really coming up with a consistent argument here. I understand that leadership is important in hockey and Patrick Marleau has a reputation as a leader, and there is more than enough evidence that he was a huge positive influence in Marner and Matthews' lives. But I work in an environment where young men and women are thrust into leadership roles at extremely young ages with relatively little experience. Some of them sink while others take to it like naturals. It is a bummer to lose Marleau's experience and leadership but it gives room for someone else to step forward. I will confidently tell you that Marleau was awful on the ice and that the Leafs are better off with another player taking his minutes. Intangibles like leadership are hard to quantify and losing Marleau might hurt the Leafs a little, but I think the kids deserve some credit for not needing a team dad anymore and I think other Maple Leafs like Tavares and Rielly deserve credit for their own leadership abilities.


I even admitted that my argument bounced from coaching or veterans be it absolutely a consistent argument, I even spelled out What my point was “that it has to be someone doesent matter who in The room” as my main point that’s never changed So just because I went from a veteran with an outstanding leadership Resume to a coach who won his first cup for a team that hadn’t won it ever within half a year out of dead doesen’t change that and certainly doesen’t make it a non consistent argument. I figured you may jump on the Fact I bounced on that but I explained why and even IF You were to reply with that I thought “maybe I’ll just add this extra line so he’s not confused” about how it can come from The people who have been through it, Then pointed out how great it is to have Shanahan around. So at this point you didn’t understand my point despite me even going beyond explaining it, you just want to validate what I’m saying or anything in between because it’s crystal clear how consistent my point remained, just because someone uses different examples doesent take away from the main idea.

Anyway I didn’t say the leafs would
Be bad because if it, alright if you say meatloaf was awful on the ice I’ll belueev it, pominville was awful and he had similar numbers
Last yeaR Think anyway (he got like 10 playing with guess who) but it’s not about that it snore about Marleau and pominville both having similar seasons and not being good at all. Yet some think because pominville sniped Those he is so valuablr. Okposo is this way even more, garbage.

But Marleau and hainsey for that Margaret added that mental stability you can say that it’s addition by subtraction but this kid who
Steps in has to not only do what Marley did but sonit better and he has to also make upFor the leadership lost by being extra better then Marleau on the ice, so that’s quite a tall task. That’s co during the guy has to get what 20 goals to be better over,Who is playing in his Spot?
 
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Tage2Tuch

Because TheJackAttack is in Black
May 10, 2004
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The Panthers finished 10 points above the Sabres last year and substantially improved by adding Bobrovsky. Their forward group is much better than the Sabres and I don’t know many people who would prefer the Sabres defenseman over what the Panthers have.


Pretty sure lots of people would prefer the sabres d over Florida, no one is really saying buffalo is better and if Someone did that’s on them, I wouldn’t be rattled sbout it, to me The panthers are better everywhere but d, especially going forward...



Dahlin
Montour
Jokiharju
Ristolainen

There might be moves in ristolainen but took the above three names. If Jokiharju continues to develop and get even better which dahlin absolutely will and montour is stilla great two way dman, there aren’t many young teams who Wouldn’t want any of those three guys their top six let alone top four. Montour will get a training camp and time to gel even more and was awesome anyway without that last year. Ristolainen gets so much flack, some necessary, most not even close. He’s been a one man show on this team in their dark seat says with jo goalies, playing minutes only oases hy thenlikes of Keith suter and doughty in the past few years hung out to dry like Schultz in Edmonton, if risto has help he will be way better it’s no wonder his numbers look awful when he’s in every PP PK its no wonder he gets beat on one on ones he’s playing against Crosby and Mackinnon and mcdavid every shift. Then who knows how the rest is going to play out drafting Johnson who could of gone top 20 and went 31st (added Colin Mi and Dman Ryan Johnson helps from in the ror deal) and last year the first rounder who went last Samuelsson a big dman with leadership skillS, those two and Borgen who has payed his dues in the next two
Years will challenge the likes of rest:


Pilut
C Miller
McCabe
Scandella
Nelson
Bogosian
Hunwick
Gilmour
Samuelsson
Johnson

Pilut came over and many sabres fans were angry he didn’t start last seaso ou if camp. Then when he got a chance late in the year the guy was really really good, olofsson and pilut are going to be the breakout guys other fans didn’t know of because they weren’t highly Touted prospects but their potential is certainly big now.

Florida’s defense isn’t bad it’s actually
Rally good, but defense has been a big
Issue in Florida.

I’d take dahlin montour Johnson pilut Jokiharju and either ristolainen Samuelsson as my defense going forward in like the 22-23 season this would Be ideal. Florida has i sane offensive prospects, deep and a bette too six or top nine but the defense should definitely go to Buffalo IMO, Everything else goes to Floria for now.
 

John Eichel da GOAT

Registered User
Oct 7, 2008
6,486
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Pretty sure lots of people would prefer the sabres d over Florida, no one is really saying buffalo is better and if Someone did that’s on them, I wouldn’t be rattled sbout it, to me The panthers are better everywhere but d, especially going forward...



Dahlin
Montour
Jokiharju
Ristolainen

There might be moves in ristolainen but took the above three names. If Jokiharju continues to develop and get even better which dahlin absolutely will and montour is stilla great two way dman, there aren’t many young teams who Wouldn’t want any of those three guys their top six let alone top four. Montour will get a training camp and time to gel even more and was awesome anyway without that last year. Ristolainen gets so much flack, some necessary, most not even close. He’s been a one man show on this team in their dark seat says with jo goalies, playing minutes only oases hy thenlikes of Keith suter and doughty in the past few years hung out to dry like Schultz in Edmonton, if risto has help he will be way better it’s no wonder his numbers look awful when he’s in every PP PK its no wonder he gets beat on one on ones he’s playing against Crosby and Mackinnon and mcdavid every shift. Then who knows how the rest is going to play out drafting Johnson who could of gone top 20 and went 31st (added Colin Mi and Dman Ryan Johnson helps from in the ror deal) and last year the first rounder who went last Samuelsson a big dman with leadership skillS, those two and Borgen who has payed his dues in the next two
Years will challenge the likes of rest:


Pilut
C Miller
McCabe
Scandella
Nelson
Bogosian
Hunwick
Gilmour
Samuelsson
Johnson

Pilut came over and many sabres fans were angry he didn’t start last seaso ou if camp. Then when he got a chance late in the year the guy was really really good, olofsson and pilut are going to be the breakout guys other fans didn’t know of because they weren’t highly Touted prospects but their potential is certainly big now.

Florida’s defense isn’t bad it’s actually
Rally good, but defense has been a big
Issue in Florida.

I’d take dahlin montour Johnson pilut Jokiharju and either ristolainen Samuelsson as my defense going forward in like the 22-23 season this would Be ideal. Florida has i sane offensive prospects, deep and a bette too six or top nine but the defense should definitely go to Buffalo IMO, Everything else goes to Floria for now.
Ekblad and Yandle are today better than anything the Sabres have by a wide margin. I expect Dahlin to be the best out of both teams D corps eventually, but today he isn't there yet.

I love how juafusfkjji is in your top 4 already. Dude has played like 40 games and was sent to the A. Buffahope
 

Tage2Tuch

Because TheJackAttack is in Black
May 10, 2004
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Ekblad and Yandle are today better than anything the Sabres have by a wide margin. I expect Dahlin to be the best out of both teams D corps eventually, but today he isn't there yet.

I love how juafusfkjji is in your top 4 already. Dude has played like 40 games and was sent to the A. Buffahope

Uh that was going forward.

You can’t even spell his name, keep running around bashing the sabres that’s literally all you do, buffabope? How old are you buddy seriously.

Yankees and ekblad are better then Dahlin Montour or even Risto by a wide
Margin? No.

Also dahlin eventually as if he’s not already amazing and didn’t just pass Bobby Orr for the second best season by an 18 year old
Defensemen ever with a corsi rating of57% in all situations on the ssbres averaging 21 mins of ice time as a kid who didn’t even get time to learn the ice surface and played against the best men in the world scoring 44 points in the process.


Montour I think will be better then ya for and Ristolainens numbers are heavily j fair due to the situations he’s been put in. See Reilly the same way early on until he got older and ristolainen on another team or an improved buffal team can be as good if not better then both.

Nice naming two guys though, buffalo has way better quality and quantity of defensemen. I know that hurts your feelings. The leafs haven’t won a playoff series in fifteen stead’s and made the playoffs by three points last year. The leafs will be even worse this year probably. So keep
Talking
 

John Eichel da GOAT

Registered User
Oct 7, 2008
6,486
2,097
Uh that was going forward.

You can’t even spell his name, keep running around bashing the sabres that’s literally all you do, buffabope? How old are you buddy seriously.

Yankees and ekblad are better then Dahlin Montour or even Risto by a wide
Margin? No.

Also dahlin eventually as if he’s not already amazing and didn’t just pass Bobby Orr for the second best season by an 18 year old
Defensemen ever with a corsi rating of57% in all situations on the ssbres averaging 21 mins of ice time as a kid who didn’t even get time to learn the ice surface and played against the best men in the world scoring 44 points in the process.


Montour I think will be better then ya for and Ristolainens numbers are heavily j fair due to the situations he’s been put in. See Reilly the same way early on until he got older and ristolainen on another team or an improved buffal team can be as good if not better then both.

Nice naming two guys though, buffalo has way better quality and quantity of defensemen. I know that hurts your feelings. The leafs haven’t won a playoff series in fifteen stead’s and made the playoffs by three points last year. The leafs will be even worse this year probably. So keep
Talking

Blah blah blah come at me when the Sabres actually do anything. Every season all I hear is why they're going to be better and they never are. Hope hope and more hope only to disappoint.

Eichel = overrated

Dahlin = a generational talent wasted
 

Uncle Scrooge

Hockey Bettor
Nov 14, 2011
13,479
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Helsinki
It's great that Buffalo has some top end elite talent pieces and a killer first line (now very expensive one too) but it's not that easy as people think to put together a roster of quality bottom 9 forwards who have a strong compete culture, well coached and then the goaltending solution isn't going to fall out of the sky either. Buffalo still has a long way to go to get to Montreal/Florida's level, competing for playoff spots.

I don't think it's necessarily a long way, but i agree you don't just snap your fingers and get a functional bottom 6.

I do think their top 6 is good enough for a playoff team for sure.

EDIT: aww damn old post
 

KCC

Registered User
Aug 15, 2007
18,190
9,058
I think Montreal way overachieved last year and Buffalo underachieved, so yes I think Buffalo has a better roster.

There's no such thing as underachieving for Buffalo. Not yet anyways. lol
 

MtlsabresFAN

Registered User
Nov 17, 2018
151
131
Buffalo have a better roster but the Habs have Julien and Price. Mtl team reminds me of the Hasek era sabres.
 

Royal Thunder

Frolunda Mode
Feb 21, 2012
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Habs have a great culture and the hockey gods absolutely love them. Seems they are always better than they should be despite mediocre talent, and they always play good teams well. Sabres culture is a joke until they prove otherwise, you can just tell their opponents usually don’t respect them.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
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I'd easily rather build around the Sabres roster.

I don't trust their GM to do so.

I think the Habs are better run, but the Sabres do have the better core pieces.
 
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Riddum

Registered User
Nov 5, 2008
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Montreal
Buffalo is built like absolute crap. Worse than Montreal. That said, Buffalo has better offense right now. Montreal takes defense, goaltending and coaching.
 

Mackiaveli

Registered User
Nov 24, 2015
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I'd easily rather build around the Sabres roster.

I don't trust their GM to do so.

I think the Habs are better run, but the Sabres do have the better core pieces.

Lightly disagree. Sabres definitely have the better high end assets (Eichel/Dahlin) but passed that they are a bit light.

Skinner and Okposo contracts are bad. Skinner is a good player, but 15m in those two is rough.

Romanov <<< Dahlin
Weber/Petry >> Ristolainen/Montour/Jokiharju
Caufield, Kotkaniemi, Suzuki >>>> Cozens, Mittlestadt

Montreal with good drafting in the 2nd (Poirier pls) likely end up adding similar value this draft despite Buffalo having a better pick (Lapierre + a good 2nd rd vs Perfetti/Sanderson/Holtz) --- Montreal also has some of the best wing depth in the NHL once they actually add top 6 wingers. Montreal just needs to bring back Thompson and hope Kotkaniemi can fill the 2C shoes, trade Domi + for a more effective winger, and add a top 6 guy (Dadonov?)

X/Suzuki/Dadonov
Tatar/Kotkaniemi/Gallagher
Drouin/Danault/Armia
Lehkonen/Thompson/Byron

Romanov/Weber
Chiarot/Petry
Edmundson/Fleury

Price
Allen

Prospects: Caufield, 15/47/48/56th overall picks, Poehling, Ylonen, Brook, Norlinder, Cayden Primeau.

vs

Olofsson/Eichel/Reinhart
Skinner/Staal/Kahun
X/Mittelstadt/Okposo
X/X/Thompson

Dahlin/Risto
McCabe/Jokiharju
Montour/Miller

Ullmark
Hutton

Prospects: Cozens, 8th/38th, Samuelsson, Johnson, Luukkonen.

I think Buffalo has the two best pieces between the two teams, but after that it is Montreal for awhile.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
27,611
17,951
Lightly disagree. Sabres definitely have the better high end assets (Eichel/Dahlin) but passed that they are a bit light.

Skinner and Okposo contracts are bad. Skinner is a good player, but 15m in those two is rough.

Romanov <<< Dahlin
Weber/Petry >> Ristolainen/Montour/Jokiharju
Caufield, Kotkaniemi, Suzuki >>>> Cozens, Mittlestadt

Montreal with good drafting in the 2nd (Poirier pls) likely end up adding similar value this draft despite Buffalo having a better pick (Lapierre + a good 2nd rd vs Perfetti/Sanderson/Holtz) --- Montreal also has some of the best wing depth in the NHL once they actually add top 6 wingers. Montreal just needs to bring back Thompson and hope Kotkaniemi can fill the 2C shoes, trade Domi + for a more effective winger, and add a top 6 guy (Dadonov?)

X/Suzuki/Dadonov
Tatar/Kotkaniemi/Gallagher
Drouin/Danault/Armia
Lehkonen/Thompson/Byron

Romanov/Weber
Chiarot/Petry
Edmundson/Fleury

Price
Allen

Prospects: Caufield, 15/47/48/56th overall picks, Poehling, Ylonen, Brook, Norlinder, Cayden Primeau.

vs

Olofsson/Eichel/Reinhart
Skinner/Staal/Kahun
X/Mittelstadt/Okposo
X/X/Thompson

Dahlin/Risto
McCabe/Jokiharju
Montour/Miller

Ullmark
Hutton

Prospects: Cozens, 8th/38th, Samuelsson, Johnson, Luukkonen.

I think Buffalo has the two best pieces between the two teams, but after that it is Montreal for awhile.

Sure, you're probably right, but i would still take those Two elite talents, no one on Montreal comes close to either Eichel or Dahlin.
 

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