Is Auston Matthews a streaky player? Or do you see Auston as a consistent goal/point scorer?

[The Winter Soldier]

7 game sample aside, what does this have to do with him being streaky or not?

Well the thread is about October production, thus we are 7 games in with only 1 assist.

There is nothing "mediocre" about his game.

Matthews is simply the most talented scorer on his team so the team feeds HIM more than he feeds them. Kinda like Steven Stamkos, who has usually always posted more goals than he has assists.

Stamkos and Matthews are both "elite Centres". That's just how they play.

Look for Matthews to end up somewhere around 50 goals and 40-50 assists this season.

Matthews career numbers in assists do back up the notion he is an elite distributor of the puck. 95 assists in 219 career games. A significant sampling. Which over 82 games prorates to 35 assists per season. Don't you think that is mediocre production assists wise if we are talking about strictly play making for a Center that he is grouped into in his comparable 11.634 per range.

 

[Stamkos4life]

There's a really good thread on the Toronto Maple Leafs subreddit right now that discusses Matthews' scoring rates. To sum it up in one line: Auston Matthews scores in more of his games than any other player.

Matthews scores in 42.9% of the games he plays in, the next closest is Kucherov is 41.9%.

He goes through hot and cold streaks just like every player, but he literally scores more often than any other player in the league throughout his career.

There is more to hockey then just straight goal scoring.

Let's see that same chart but done with "points" instead of just "goals".

I bet he gets points in way less games then players like kucherov and McDavid because he is streakier.

Yes auston scores goals at a very high rate. It helps that he has played less games then almost everyone else.

 

[Tralfamadore]

There's a really good thread on the Toronto Maple Leafs subreddit right now that discusses Matthews' scoring rates. To sum it up in one line: Auston Matthews scores in more of his games than any other player.

Matthews scores in 42.9% of the games he plays in, the next closest is Kucherov is 41.9%.

He goes through hot and cold streaks just like every player, but he literally scores more often than any other player in the league throughout his career.

This is impressive and goes to show that even if AM is off his game he's always a threat to score. On the flip side he could be considered to be one dimensional at times ie. only a threat with his shot.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Let's see that same chart but done with "points" instead of just "goals".

Keep shifting those goalposts.

I bet he gets points in way less games then players like kucherov and McDavid because he is streaker.

1. Assists are much easier to get, so playmakers have a huge advantage in that sense. This has nothing to do with being streaky.
2. Both McDavid and Kucherov have played with goal-scorers and far superior players, which is another huge advantage.
3. Both McDavid and Kucherov have gotten considerably more PP time, which is another huge advantage.
4. McDavid and Kucherov have put up considerably more points in total, so of course they will have put up points more often.

There is zero proof that Matthews is streaky, and there is solid proof that he is the most consistent goal-scorer in the league.

Yes auston scores goals at a very high rate. It helps that he has played less games then almost everyone else.

It does not.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Keep shifting those goalposts.

How am I shifting goal posts? The thread literally says points and goals. Not just goals which I know auston fans love cherry picking.

1. Assists are much easier to get, so playmakers have a huge advantage in that sense. This has nothing to do with being streaky.
2. Both McDavid and Kucherov have played with goal-scorers and far superior players, which is another huge advantage.
3. Both McDavid and Kucherov have gotten considerably more PP time, which is another huge advantage.
4. McDavid and Kucherov have put up considerably more points in total, so of course they will have put up points more often.

There is zero proof that Matthews is streaky, and there is solid proof that he is the most consistent goal-scorer in the league.


It does not.

1. Assists dont seem very easy for auston to get, otherwise hed have more than 1.

2. Excuses
3. Excuses
4. Exactly. McDavid and kucherov are examples of consistent/ non streaky players. Auston is not.

There is lots of proof auston is streaky. He has 18 goals in his last 19 October games. That is streaky. I admit he is probably the most consistent goal scorer. But this thread isnt solely about goals.

Yes it does. As he plays more games his rates will normalize. Every year auston starts off at ppg+ but slows down as the season wears on. That is streaky.

 

[razkaz]

How am I shifting goal posts? The thread literally says points and goals. Not just goals which I know auston fans love cherry picking.

The forward slash ( / ) denotes Or not And.

 

[Stamkos4life]

The forward slash ( / ) denotes Or not And.

Imo, it means "and" or "or".

Either way, this thread isnt solely about goals. It's about being a consistent producer. Auston is not a consistent producer of points.

 

[LeafGrief]

There is more to hockey then just straight goal scoring.

Let's see that same chart but done with "points" instead of just "goals".

I bet he gets points in way less games then players like kucherov and McDavid because he is streakier.

Yes auston scores goals at a very high rate. It helps that he has played less games then almost everyone else.

He probably has a much lower percentage of games with points than McDavid or Kucherov because they score a lot more points than he does. Kucherov had 126 points last year, McDavid had 116. Yeah, the two best point producers in the league probably get points more often than Matthews does, that's a big brain deduction right there.

But that's not what this thread is about. It's whether or not Matthews is a streaky player. Yeah, he'd have more points if he got more assists. He'd have more games with points if he got more assists. But he is literally the most consistent goal scorer in the league.

Since 2016 GP
Matthews - 219
Kucherov - 242
McDavid - 248

Kucherov has played 23 games more over three seasons, McDavid 29. That's about a 10% less games than the other two. At some point you should really recognize that the "less games played" argument is entirely wishful thinking on your part. Matthews may have had injury troubles the past two years, but despite those he's still been the most consistent goal scorer in the league.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Goals are tough to come by and it's difficult to not view everyone as streaky, but I think he's as consistent as they come.

 

[Stamkos4life]

He probably has a much lower percentage of games with points than McDavid or Kucherov because they score a lot more points than he does. Kucherov had 126 points last year, McDavid had 116. Yeah, the two best point producers in the league probably get points more often than Matthews does, that's a big brain deduction right there.

But that's not what this thread is about. It's whether or not Matthews is a streaky player. Yeah, he'd have more points if he got more assists. He'd have more games with points if he got more assists. But he is literally the most consistent goal scorer in the league.

Since 2016 GP
Matthews - 219
Kucherov - 242
McDavid - 248

Kucherov has played 23 games more over three seasons, McDavid 29. That's about a 10% less games than the other two. At some point you should really recognize that the "less games played" argument is entirely wishful thinking on your part. Matthews may have had injury troubles the past two years, but despite those he's still been the most consistent goal scorer in the league.

Kucherov and McDavid have more points because they are more consistent. Not the other way around.

Being a streaky player is not based solely on goal scoring. Auston's lack of assists makes him a streaky player.

Also, Auston may be the most consistent goal scorer per game. But let me know when that results in a Richard or anything really.

Auston has shown repeatedly that he starts off on fire only to cool off hard. Last year he started off with like 19 goals and 30+ points in 21 games. He finished the next ~45 games at slightly less then ppg. That shows me with more games he's likely to lower his GPG.

 

[Dekes For Days]

1. Assists dont seem very easy for auston to get, otherwise hed have more than 1.

1. Small sample size, for which Matthews has actually been statistically unlucky relative to his dominance.
2. Matthews has not played with goal-scorers or the quality of players that McDavid and Kucherov have. Assists require your linemates to score.
3. Matthews, being the best goal-scorer in the league, is supposed to be shooting the puck when he gets the chance.

2. Excuses
3. Excuses

No. Context, which I know you love to ignore.

4. Exactly. McDavid and kucherov are examples of consistent/ non streaky players. Auston is not.

This is like saying that a 40 point player can't be consistent because they don't score as much as 70-80 point players. This is a beyond stupid argument.

Matthews is extremely consistent.

There is lots of proof auston is streaky. He has 18 goals in his last 19 October games. That is streaky.

No it's not. That's over multiple seasons. This is like saying a goalie does well against certain teams so he's streaky.

Goal-scorers in general tend to do especially well at the beginning of the season when defensive structures aren't solidified and scoring is inflated.

Yes it does. As he plays more games his rates will normalize.

He has a significant sample, and his rates just keep rising. You incorrectly assume that his "normal" is lower than his current rates, when there is absolutely zero evidence of this.

Every year auston starts off at ppg+ but slows down as the season wears on.

Matthews has ended both of the past two years PPG+. You're trying to nonsensically use his great starts to seasons as a negative.

Matthews was actually one of the best, but unluckiest players in the league in the second half of last season, yet still had 13 points in his last 14 games. The year before, he literally ended the season on a 10-game point streak.

 

[Legion34]

Rookie season: (regular season)

4 goals in game 1, 0+0 in game 2, 4 game point streak (2+4), 5 game pointless streak,
3 game point streak (0+3), 3 game pointless streak, 5 game point streak (4+1), the next 4 games ;
1+0, 0+0, 1+0, 0+0, 12 game point streak (8+6), the next game 0+0, 3 game point streak (1+2),
next 7 games; 0+0, 0+0, 0+0, 1+0, 0+0, 0+0, 0+0, 3 game point streak (2+3), next 5 games;
0+0, 0+0, 2+0, 0+0, 0+0, 6 game point streak (4+5), 7 game pointless streak, 9 game point streak (8+4)
last 4 games; 0+0, 0+0, 1+1, 0+0

- i think he had streaky rookie season

Sophomore season: (regular season)

5 game point streak (5+3), next game 0+0, 2 game point streak (2+2), next game 0+0,
5 game point streak (3+3), next 3 games; 0+0, 1+1, 0+0, 2 game point streak (2+1),
3 game pointless streak, 4 game point streak (1+4), 3 game pointless streak, 4 game point streak (4+1)
next game 0+0, 2 game point streak (2+0), 5 game pointless streak, 6 game point streak (4+3),
next game 0+0, 4 game point streak (3+4), next 4 games 0+0, 0+1, 1+0, 0+0, 10 game point streak (7+7)

- i think he had consistent sophomore season

3rd season: (regular season)

7 game point streak (10+6), 5 game pointless streak, 6 game point streak (6+5), 3 game pointless streak
2 game point streak (3+3), next 4 games; 0+0, 0+1, 0+0, 0+1, 2 game point streak (1+2),
2 game pointless streak, 2 game point streak (0+3), 4 game pointless streak, 5 game point streak (4+1)
2 game pointless streak, 2 game point streak (3+3), next game 0+0, 7 game point streak (3+4),
4 game pointless streak, 4 game point streak (4+2), next 3 games; 0+0, 1+1, 0+0, 3 game point streak (2+2)
4 game pointless streak

- i think he had streaky 3rd season

He is actually the least streaky goal scorer in the league.

He is 3rd in the league in goals. Despite missing 34 games.

And only has 1 hat trick. Matthews scores in about 42% of his games. Kuch in 41 is the second highest

 

[razkaz]

Imo, it means "and" or "or".

Either way, this thread isnt solely about goals. It's about being a consistent producer. Auston is not a consistent producer of points.

Your opinion is irrelevant, that's literally the meaning of the forward slash.

Matthews is sitting at 0.54 G/GP and 0.97 P/GP since coming into the league in 2016. So what is considered streaky?

 

[Stamkos4life]

Your opinion is irrelevant, that's literally the meaning of the forward slash.

Matthews is sitting at 0.54 G/GP and 0.97 P/GP since coming into the league in 2016. So what is considered streaky?

Do you have proof of this?

When to Use a Slash in Writing

Says that the forward slash has many meanings. It may be you who is in fact wrong about the forward slash.

Most players are streaky. It's hard to be consistent over an 82 game scheduale.

Having said that, a player who can have 19 goals, 30+ points in 21 games, only to have less then 45 points over their next 45 games is streaky.

 

[Jot]

On Leafs top forwards
Tavares is most streaky
Then Matthews (injuries)
Marner most consistent.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Well the thread is about October production,

No it's not.

 

[razkaz]

Do you have proof of this?

When to Use a Slash in Writing

Says that the forward slash has many meanings. It may be you who is in fact wrong about the forward slash.

Most players are streaky. It's hard to be consistent over an 82 game scheduale.

Having said that, a player who can have 19 goals, 30+ points in 21 games, only to have less then 45 points over their next 45 games is streaky.

From your source:

Next, we have the and/or scenario. Forward slashes tend toward informal pieces of writing. They're sort of like an illustration of the word "or."

Furthermore, it is more commonly used for the conjunction 'or' though it can also be used as 'and'

I feel like this is getting off topic, so I'm done on that subject.


Back to your point. I find it interesting that you broke down Matthews' stats in that order, 21 games and then 45 games. I went ahead and broke them down into 11 game segments because he played the first 11 games before getting injured.
Games 1-11 16pts
Games 12-22 17pts
Games 23-33 9pts
Games 34-44 11pts
Games 45-55 8pts
Games 56-66 11pts
Games 67-68 1pt

Looks pretty consistent to me.

 

[Stamkos4life]

From your source:

Next, we have the and/or scenario. Forward slashes tend toward informal pieces of writing. They're sort of like an illustration of the word "or."

Furthermore, it is more commonly used for the conjunction 'or' though it can also be used as 'and'

I feel like this is getting off topic, so I'm done on that subject.


Back to your point. I find it interesting that you broke down Matthews' stats in that order, 21 games and then 45 games. I went ahead and broke them down into 11 game segments because he played the first 11 games before getting injured.
Games 1-11 16pts
Games 12-22 17pts
Games 23-33 9pts
Games 34-44 11pts
Games 45-55 8pts
Games 56-66 11pts
Games 67-68 1pt

Looks pretty consistent to me.

Exactly, the forward slash can be used for "and". Now get off your high horse.

Those work out to;
1: 119 points/82 games
2: 126 points/82 games
3: 67 points
4: 82 points
5: 60 points
6&7: 82 points

For the first two hes the leading scorer in the league. For the rest hes average. That's not consistent to me.

The definition of "consitent" is:

"acting or done in the same way over time, especially so as to be fair or accurate."

Or

"unchanging in nature, standard, or effect over time."

Im guessing you have a different definition though and will berate me.

 

[Stamkos4life]

1. Small sample size, for which Matthews has actually been statistically unlucky relative to his dominance.
2. Matthews has not played with goal-scorers or the quality of players that McDavid and Kucherov have. Assists require your linemates to score.
3. Matthews, being the best goal-scorer in the league, is supposed to be shooting the puck when he gets the chance.


No. Context, which I know you love to ignore.


This is like saying that a 40 point player can't be consistent because they don't score as much as 70-80 point players. This is a beyond stupid argument.

Matthews is extremely consistent.


No it's not. That's over multiple seasons. This is like saying a goalie does well against certain teams so he's streaky.

Goal-scorers in general tend to do especially well at the beginning of the season when defensive structures aren't solidified and scoring is inflated.


He has a significant sample, and his rates just keep rising. You incorrectly assume that his "normal" is lower than his current rates, when there is absolutely zero evidence of this.


Matthews has ended both of the past two years PPG+. You're trying to nonsensically use his great starts to seasons as a negative.

Matthews was actually one of the best, but unluckiest players in the league in the second half of last season, yet still had 13 points in his last 14 games. The year before, he literally ended the season on a 10-game point streak.

I dont think it is based on a small sample. Austons assist/game ratio works out to 35 assists per 82 games. That is not the sign of a good playmaker. It does you no service to discredit assists here. In fact it hurts your position.

Yes he hasn't gotten to play with the same level of linemates as some of these other players. But that's just another excuse for why he isnt consistent. This poll isnt asking for reasons why hes not.

And then you go off the deep end making up all sorts of fables.

Of course you would use the word "lucky". If it doesn't align with your pre conception and your advanced stats, it has to be luck. Good one.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I dont think it is based on a small sample. Austons assist/game ratio works out to 35 assists per 82 games. That is not the sign of a good playmaker.

The comment you made about 1 assist was based on a small sample. You can't just look at raw assist totals to determine quality of playmaker. You are showing a complete lack of understanding of roles and circumstances and their impacts.

But that's just another excuse for why he isnt consistent.

Matthews is consistent. That is merely a reason why his assist totals are not representative of his quality as a playmaker.

Of course you would use the word "lucky". If it doesn't align with your pre conception and your advanced stats, it has to be luck.

Luck is a real thing and is actually well represented by a ton of different stats.

 

[Stamkos4life]

The comment you made about 1 assist was based on a small sample. You can't just look at raw assist totals to determine quality of playmaker. You are showing a complete lack of understanding of roles and circumstances and their impacts.


Matthews is consistent. That is merely a reason why his assist totals are not representative of his quality as a playmaker.


Luck is a real thing and is actually well represented by a ton of different stats.

When a player has an average of x amount of goals over their entire career, it means they are the best goal scorer.

When a player has an average of x amount of assists over their entire career, it means nothing and is useless data.

Do you see what you are doing here?

Saying luck is "represented by a ton of different stats" is lol worthy.

I think we are done here.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Matthews is a below average play maker. He is not good at distributing the puck.

This is a fact.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Matthews is a below average play maker. He is not good at distributing the puck.

This is a fact.

it's an opinion, and it's not backed up by very much. You could say his linemates are below average finishers though

 

[Dekes For Days]

When a player has an average of x amount of goals over their entire career, it means they are the best goal scorer.

When a player has an average of x amount of assists over their entire career, it means nothing and is useless data.

It's not useless data, but the specific data you are using, the way you are using it, and the conclusions you are coming to are wrong. Also, that comparison is flawed because not only are you not looking at their rates of production, but assists are subject to much more variability and are reliant on somebody else (individuals that for Matthews, are much worse quality than his peers). The area where Matthews falls behind is secondary assists, largely because of role and circumstance, not ability. This does not make him a "streaky" player.

Saying luck is "represented by a ton of different stats" is lol worthy.

It is.. It's not like this is some foreign concept. It's pretty well established. There are a ton of stats that represent some form of luck. Things tend to normalize over bigger samples than the ones you cherry-pick.

 

[biturbo19]

At the end of the day, all players are "inconsistent" to a degree. It's never going to be a perfectly even distribution. Just stands out more with a guy like Matthews, because the numbers are big and expectations are high. You look at a 40G scorer and it's easy to just assume he should be scoring a goal every other game...but that's just not realistic.

Inconsistent goal-scorer to me, is a guy like Michael Grabner in the extreme. Might pot 40G or like 5G.