OT: Introducing Your Vancouver Titans (Overwatch League)

[Intangibos]

To highlight how you become fans of players and become invested in them, Doublelift is my favorite player and I've followed him from team to team.
First he shared his story about getting kicked out of his house with his wallet, bike and computer so he could pursue a career in gaming


After this interview he and his mother reconnected and they were a family again. Then last year his brother, the one who was the most inspirational person in his life, murdered both his parents like a week before spring finals (the finals nobody really cares about that much), but like a champ he still went out and played with his team and led them to victory. It's not a sport but they're competitors who put everything they have into the game for themselves, their fans and their teammates. How could I not want to watch this guy succeed?

I don't know how this e sports stuff works but the thing with poker and chess and golf is thst you usually watching specifically chosen footage.

I have enjoyed watching poker but it's usually not live. It is usually an edit where they have selected the most interesting hands. Similarly with golf, although it may be live they are typically bouncing you to whatever hole is most dramatic rather than watching the whole thing which would be almost impossible.

To what extent is this the case with esports? How are they deciding what footage to watch?

They show the full games.

There are different leagues, EU and NA LCS (Europe / North American LCS) which have the same format. The other two major leagues are the Chinese and South Korean leagues followed by South-East Asia. In terms of rankings it's generally SK > China > NA/EU/SEA. Anyway, like hockey these various leagues have a number of teams. The schedule however is different. In NA and EU LCS there are 2 days a week with games and each team will have a match each day to move up and down the standings. Then there are the playoffs (BO3) that lead to worlds (for the summer split as the season is split into two halves with spring having a smaller international event). The finals are coming up this weekend and there will also be a losers bracket (BO1 I think). The teams that go to worlds are based on how the playoffs pan out.

Then at worlds they have a group stage followed by knockouts (BO5) as if it were international hockey.

 

[Tables of Stats]

I don't know how this e sports stuff works but the thing with poker and chess and golf is thst you usually watching specifically chosen footage.

I have enjoyed watching poker but it's usually not live. It is usually an edit where they have selected the most interesting hands. Similarly with golf, although it may be live they are typically bouncing you to whatever hole is most dramatic rather than watching the whole thing which would be almost impossible.

To what extent is this the case with esports? How are they deciding what footage to watch?

In E-sports, fighting games being the exception, it's often very much like traditional sports with a team of observers (like virtual cameramen) who focus on the action. The commentary team has some input as well and like any good live event, there are often instant replays of the most important moments. You can watch post-match analysis and highlight packages too which is good if you missed a game (though with free VoDs you can always catch up) or if it's a game between teams you care less about.

I find MOBA style games and RTSs more watchable than shooters and fighting games but your mileage may vary.

 

[Melvin]

They show the full games

In that case, all other arguments aside, the comparisons to poker, golf, etc are not apt.

 

[Tables of Stats]

I had respect for Doublelift before he joined Team Liquid (I've been a fan of the team since the Curse days) and seeing how he's played with this team and how he's handled the tragedy is intense. He's a hell of a person no matter how you look at him.

Other neat things to watch this year have been the success of NA's franchising and the impending EU franchising deal which will happen this offseason. The collapse of SK Telecom T1 over in Korea, the rise of China as a region, the Cloud 9 early summer split roster drama and comeback, as well as the late season trades (for the first time ever), have really made this season the best yet for League's short history as a sport.

 

[Pip]

I don't know how this e sports stuff works but the thing with poker and chess and golf is thst you usually watching specifically chosen footage.

I have enjoyed watching poker but it's usually not live. It is usually an edit where they have selected the most interesting hands. Similarly with golf, although it may be live they are typically bouncing you to whatever hole is most dramatic rather than watching the whole thing which would be almost impossible.

To what extent is this the case with esports? How are they deciding what footage to watch?

I can only speak for Overwatch but most broadcasts are done by jumping from one player’s POV to another, depending on who is in the most interesting position. Occassionally you’ll get arial shots in certain areas where players are grouped up. Each game in a 5-7 game match is fairly short (around 15-20 minutes), and in between games you’ll get your analysis from the desk and whatnot. The game itself is fairly fast-paced, so there aren’t too many lulls in action.

 

[Intangibos]

I had respect for Doublelift before he joined Team Liquid (I've been a fan of the team since the Curse days) and seeing how he's played with this team and how he's handled the tragedy is intense. He's a hell of a person no matter how you look at him.

Other neat things to watch this year have been the success of NA's franchising and the impending EU franchising deal which will happen this offseason. The collapse of SK Telecom T1 over in Korea, the rise of China as a region, the Cloud 9 early summer split roster drama and comeback, as well as the late season trades (for the first time ever), have really made this season the best yet for League's short history as a sport.

I was a CLG guy from the first time I started watching, both their NA and EU teams. I remember watching CLG EU go to game 5 in OGN finals. But I also remember Doublelift saving CLG from relegation, I remember him finally winning worlds with them and getting kicked off immediately after because some players can't handle real talk, not that he was particularly good at social interaction back then. Disgraceful stuff and I'm glad they're in the basement.

Then he joined the dark side at TSM and I still followed him to that trash org only to watch him get blamed when he gets no support while his allstar mid does nothing and get kicked so they can replace him with EU imports who have been underwhelming. Shameful, but good riddance I guess so I don't have to feel dirty cheering for TSM. I almost hope they make it to worlds so their all-star mid can be a complete non-factor yet again so we can see who takes the blame for him.

Now my 3 guys Liftlift, Xmitihe and the notorious POB are all in one place

With SKT's collapse m-maybe this year the gap will close, r-right?

 

[Tables of Stats]

I can only speak for Overwatch but most broadcasts are done by jumping from one player’s POV to another, depending on who is in the most interesting position. Occassionally you’ll get arial shots in certain areas where players are grouped up. Each game in a 5-7 game match is fairly short (around 15-20 minutes), and in between games you’ll get your analysis from the desk and whatnot. The game itself is fairly fast-paced, so there aren’t too many lulls in action.

To elaborate on what I posted up thread, MOBAs are (for important series at least) usually played in best of 5 matches. Series are longer than for a shooter with a full series often running between 2 and 4 hours depending on match lengths. For current regular season play in the LCS you have two days of games on Saturday and Sunday that are 5 best of one series where all 10 teams play each day. A full day of content is around 5 hours if you include pre and post day coverage, but if you only follow a team or two you can watch the VoDs after the fact and get a solid 2 hours of coverage that way.

 

[Tables of Stats]

I was a CLG guy from the first time I started watching, both their NA and EU teams. I remember watching CLG EU go to game 5 in OGN finals. But I also remember Doublelift saving CLG from relegation, I remember him finally winning worlds with them and getting kicked off immediately after because some players can't handle real talk, not that he was particularly good at social interaction back then. Then he joined the dark side at TSM and I still followed him to that trash org only to watch him get blamed when he gets no support while his allstar mid does nothing and get kicked. Luckily my 3 guys Liftlift, Xmitihe and the notorious POB are all in one place

With SKT's collapse m-maybe this year the gap will close, r-right?

I think any gains we've made on Korea have been eaten by China, so we can hope to get a team or two out of groups this time but I don't see much after that unless we start upsetting teams.

I feel sorry for CLG fans right now with Afromoo walking to 100 Thieves and their general inability to win games when it counts.

 

[Intangibos]

I think any gains we've made on Korea have been eaten by China, so we can hope to get a team or two out of groups this time but I don't see much after that unless we start upsetting teams.

I feel sorry for CLG fans right now with Afromoo walking to 100 Thieves and their general inability to win games when it counts.

After Cody Sun was allegedly benched partially because Aphromoo and him have problems I'm starting to think Aphro might be a cancer. It seems he can't handle it when someone has a strong opinion on how the game should be played that clashes with his own.

Regardless, I do feel bad for CLG fans but not the org. They're pretty much the Canucks of League of Legends, and the Canucks deserve to be in the basement even if (some) of the fans don't. I do hope that the fans who were happy about Doublelift leaving enjoy the bottom of the standings though.

 

[lawrence]

In E-sports, fighting games being the exception, it's often very much like traditional sports with a team of observers (like virtual cameramen) who focus on the action. The commentary team has some input as well and like any good live event, there are often instant replays of the most important moments. You can watch post-match analysis and highlight packages too which is good if you missed a game (though with free VoDs you can always catch up) or if it's a game between teams you care less about.

I find MOBA style games and RTSs more watchable than shooters and fighting games but your mileage may vary.

apparently on twitch first person shooter counter strike have the most viewers, followed by Dota or League of Legends (Moba) then it's over watch.

 

[Tables of Stats]

apparently on twitch first person shooter counter strike have the most viewers, followed by Dota or League of Legends (Moba) then it's over watch.

League splits viewers between Twitch and Youtube streams and has more than one league. It's probably the most viewed E-sports, but like an article, I linked to covered direct comparison is hard.

After Cody Sun was allegedly benched partially because Aphromoo and him have problems I'm starting to think Aphro might be a cancer. It seems he can't handle it when someone has a strong opinion on how the game should be played that clashes with his own.

Regardless, I do feel bad for CLG fans but not the org. They're pretty much the Canucks of League of Legends, and the Canucks deserve to be in the basement even if (some) of the fans don't. I do hope that the fans who were happy about Doublelift leaving enjoy the bottom of the standings though.

Was that really a thing or just Reddit being Reddit?

I think it was more due to him being terrible into DL leading to 100 benching Cody. Cody probably didn't like this much which lead to him not evening being a sub for the series against TL.

 

[RandV]

MOBAs take some of the aspects of RTS, where the genre got its start as custom maps in Starcraft and Warcraft 3, and take away the Macro aspect of base building. That macro is replaced by increased levels of micromanagement as gameplay centers on your team's characters. The genre also keeps many of the other RTS aspects; scouting, countering your opponents build, economy, map awareness.
<snip>

Yes thank you for making my point for me

I'm not trashing on the genre, I'm just looking at it from a casual viewers perspective. While it's exponentially better to follow a sporting match if you understand all the rules/players/stakes/etc, but if you strip all that away can you still find some base entertainment value.

Case in point here, talking about all the details that go into character selection (which I didn't know they did for competitive play). For a viewer in the know you outline how there's a ton of detail and strategy to it. But for the layperson you're probably just spending a few minutes watching them on a character selection screen.

Going by the simplest terms, the typical MOBA is an RTS stripped down to where you control a single hero character and dive into a 5v5 3-lane tower assault/defense match. But there is just so much attention to the detail here that isn't obvious to the casual eye. First off you're going to gave dozen's of hero characters, each having their own 4 special abilities that you slowly level up in the match. On top of that you can further customize characters from buying equipment at a shop, which itself probably has dozens of items that all provide incremental improvements. And so on.

To really understand all this and be able to properly follow along in a pro match you probably have to have to put a good 100 hours into the game yourself. Without knowing these intrinsic details you can get a general understanding of what's going on but it's going to be very arcane and boring, hence the reason I compare this specific eSport to cricket - which is watched by millions globally. And fortunately for the LoL esports league, they probably have a devout player base of 20 million or so (?) people.

 

[Intangibos]

apparently on twitch first person shooter counter strike have the most viewers, followed by Dota or League of Legends (Moba) then it's over watch.

I'm surprised it's not Fortnite. Anyway those numbers aren't totally accurate. For day to day streaming League isn't as popular anymore, but major events get a lot of viewers split between numerous platforms. This week for the finals, or next month during worlds, League will be at the top of the viewer list by a very wide margin even will a lot of viewers watching on platforms like YouTube. Not only that but Korea and China have their own platforms as well with insane viewership.

Yes thank you for making my point for me

I'm not trashing on the genre, I'm just looking at it from a casual viewers perspective. While it's exponentially better to follow a sporting match if you understand all the rules/players/stakes/etc, but if you strip all that away can you still find some base entertainment value.

Case in point here, talking about all the details that go into character selection (which I didn't know they did for competitive play). For a viewer in the know you outline how there's a ton of detail and strategy to it. But for the layperson you're probably just spending a few minutes watching them on a character selection screen.

Going by the simplest terms, the typical MOBA is an RTS stripped down to where you control a single hero character and dive into a 5v5 3-lane tower assault/defense match. But there is just so much attention to the detail here that isn't obvious to the casual eye. First off you're going to gave dozen's of hero characters, each having their own 4 special abilities that you slowly level up in the match. On top of that you can further customize characters from buying equipment at a shop, which itself probably has dozens of items that all provide incremental improvements. And so on.

To really understand all this and be able to properly follow along in a pro match you probably have to have to put a good 100 hours into the game yourself. Without knowing these intrinsic details you can get a general understanding of what's going on but it's going to be very arcane and boring, hence the reason I compare this specific eSport to cricket - which is watched by millions globally. And fortunately for the LoL esports league, they probably have a devout player base of 20 million or so (?) people.

For worlds they have a special stream for new viewers who have no idea what's going on. They explain what they're doing, why they're doing it and try to keep things really simple. There are some people out there who watch the events without playing the game, but it's not very common. It's generally for people who are considering getting into the game and old people who enjoy watching it but don't play video games.

 

[RandV]

Yeah taking a quick look at that there's about 6 minutes spent on the character selection screen. With a 2 minute at the beginning you don't actually start seeing any 'action' until about 10 minutes in.

Having been able to enjoy watching Starcraft I have given LoL a try just searching youtube for 'best match' and seeing what they have, as I have little interest playing the game itself watching it is something I'm just never going to be able to get.

 

[Tables of Stats]

Yes thank you for making my point for me

I'm not trashing on the genre, I'm just looking at it from a casual viewers perspective. While it's exponentially better to follow a sporting match if you understand all the rules/players/stakes/etc, but if you strip all that away can you still find some base entertainment value.

Case in point here, talking about all the details that go into character selection (which I didn't know they did for competitive play). For a viewer in the know you outline how there's a ton of detail and strategy to it. But for the layperson you're probably just spending a few minutes watching them on a character selection screen.

Going by the simplest terms, the typical MOBA is an RTS stripped down to where you control a single hero character and dive into a 5v5 3-lane tower assault/defense match. But there is just so much attention to the detail here that isn't obvious to the casual eye. First off you're going to gave dozen's of hero characters, each having their own 4 special abilities that you slowly level up in the match. On top of that you can further customize characters from buying equipment at a shop, which itself probably has dozens of items that all provide incremental improvements. And so on.

To really understand all this and be able to properly follow along in a pro match you probably have to have to put a good 100 hours into the game yourself. Without knowing these intrinsic details you can get a general understanding of what's going on but it's going to be very arcane and boring, hence the reason I compare this specific eSport to cricket - which is watched by millions globally. And fortunately for the LoL esports league, they probably have a devout player base of 20 million or so (?) people.

I don't disagree on any of this. MOBAs are complicated in a way few games are and it can take a while for somebody to get a taste for them. I started as a player back before there was a competitive season and watched the first show matches and tournaments as the game was developing. It seems natural that a sports fan would get into something that way.

Yeah taking a quick look at that there's about 6 minutes spent on the character selection screen. With a 2 minute at the beginning you don't actually start seeing any 'action' until about 10 minutes in.

Having been able to enjoy watching Starcraft I have given LoL a try just searching youtube for 'best match' and seeing what they have, as I have little interest playing the game itself watching it is something I'm just never going to be able to get.

I think you'd get character select after the first few games of a playoff series and that part would then become interesting. You'd also have more context to the lane matchups and teams viewing games that way to start. That said, it would take a weekends investment to watch a full series from a single league or a long weekend with one day devoted to the sport to watch both NA and EU playoff rounds. In that respect, it's very much like watching tennis or golf and it's something that many MOBAs struggle to balance. The casual fan wants short action packed games where the hardcore fans want best of 3 serries in the regular season (they did that for a few splits) and would probably be for best of 7 series in playoffs.

 

[Intangibos]

Yeah taking a quick look at that there's about 6 minutes spent on the character selection screen. With a 2 minute at the beginning you don't actually start seeing any 'action' until about 10 minutes in.

Having been able to enjoy watching Starcraft I have given LoL a try just searching youtube for 'best match' and seeing what they have, as I have little interest playing the game itself watching it is something I'm just never going to be able to get.

The problem is that the early game can be pretty boring if you don't know the game. The objectives are small and the margins are small, but they snowball into more later. Denying your opponent the jungle camp that gives them more mana regen doesn't get you much gold or anything like that, but it makes them weaker early which can put them in a hole while late game that buff is far less important as there are much bigger objectives.

I don't remember for sure but IIRC this game was entertaining. I'll provide a timestamp so you can skip over the early game. While it's important it';s absolutely meaningless to a viewer who doesn't have any idea how the game works. Later in the game you play the whole map more while early in the game the individual lanes are sort of contained with the occasional trip around the map to gain a small edge somewhere. A bit more global play starts around now with some skirmishes and as the game goes on you'll see more teamfights over major objectives.

Take note of the small things. The kill scores are often pretty low in League. You're generally competing to gain vision, deny vision, and apply pressure to take objectives. Lots of skirmishes happen that end up to disengages because if a team gets wiped the other team might just take a ton of objectives and get a huge lead in the game. Fights still happen but they either happen because someone got caught, because a team specifically has a team comp meant to fight, or there is a situation where there is pressure in more than one place so you need to fight or you'll just lose in two places. This specific game isn't a huge action game but it's a game that as a fan you're watching closely. It's like game 7 of Chicago vs Vancouver. Low scoring but things are happening and you're watching and you're scared it's all going to crumble.

Unfortunately it has the worst play by play guy so enjoy that.

 

[Tables of Stats]

Unfortunately it has the worst play by play guy so enjoy that.

I take it you're not a fan of Phreak on PBP?

 

[The Drop]

 

[Intangibos]

I take it you're not a fan of Phreak on PBP?

I don't mind some punny memes but forcing them and then calling attention to them and loudly laughing at them is obnoxious.

I also recall when they changed dragons to the elemental ones and ocean dragons were trash. Every single game he commented on them sarcastically almost like he was upset that everyone called them trash.

But at the end of the day at least he's not Quickshot

 

[Pip]

Yeah taking a quick look at that there's about 6 minutes spent on the character selection screen. With a 2 minute at the beginning you don't actually start seeing any 'action' until about 10 minutes in.

Having been able to enjoy watching Starcraft I have given LoL a try just searching youtube for 'best match' and seeing what they have, as I have little interest playing the game itself watching it is something I'm just never going to be able to get.

I used to love watching Starcraft 2. I loved playing as well but my lack of skills limited my enjoyment of the strategic part of the game that high level play contained.

 

[Tables of Stats]

I don't mind some punny memes but forcing them and then calling attention to them and loudly laughing at them is obnoxious.

I also recall when they changed dragons to the elemental ones and ocean dragons were trash. Every single game he commented on them sarcastically almost like he was upset that everyone called them trash.

But at the end of the day at least he's not Quickshot

Or for analysis Kreppo...

I like Phreak and don't think there are any actively bad casters in League. That said, I actually like the casual commentary and random food talk on Canucks broadcasts.

 

[canuckfan75]

Here is article on this subject that explains in more detail

Report: Vancouver franchise coming to Overwatch League - Sportsnet.ca

 

[member 105785]

player salaries are between 80k and 150k a year

also it's notable that team Canada made it all the way to the grand finals of the world cup in 2017 when they lost to South Korea. team Canada's main tank xQc won player of the tournament award

team Canada is also playing in the world cup LA invitationals this weekend starting tomorrow morning shown live on twitch, Canada, US, Norway, Switzerland, Austria and one other team will be competing this weekend and only 2 teams will move into the next round

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

lmaoooo this thread

 

[Westcoastsniper]

player salaries are between 80k and 150k a year

also it's notable that team Canada made it all the way to the grand finals of the world cup in 2017 when they lost to South Korea. team Canada's main tank xQc won player of the tournament award

team Canada is also playing in the world cup LA invitationals this weekend starting tomorrow morning shown live on twitch, Canada, US, Norway, Switzerland, Austria and one other team will be competing this weekend and only 2 teams will move into the next round

Love that Canada is doing well, however I hope the Vancouver team does not sign xQc. He's one of those toxic gamers and would not represent the team well.