OT: Introducing Your Vancouver Titans (Overwatch League)

[Tables of Stats]

For some context, Riot Games asked for a franchising fee of $10 million when they moved their North American away from a promotion-relegation system to one where teams keep their spots even after a bad season. Since this change player salaries have increased from an average salary of $105,000 per year, closer to $150,000 with sponsorship deals and streaming in the mix, to $320,000 per year. Some of the top paid players earn over $1 million per year. The players are also guaranteed to receive at least 35% of league revenue even if their collective salaries would be less than that.

Teams in the NA LCS tend to have 5 players on that salary level and then 5 other lower level players making less than that. If we assume the lower level players make half that's $2.4 million in just player salaries yearly per franchise. This doesn't factor in coaches, managers, facilities, and other expenses which could easily put yearly expenses for a team into the $3 to $4 million range yearly. Investors wouldn't have bought into the league if they didn't expect to turn a profit though, given the league is in its first year still, we won't know if any teams have started earning back their franchising fee just yet.

Blizzard is asking for a much larger investment for a game that has less of a history behind it. League has been running its competitive scene in an organized way since very near to the game's launch and has had organized pro level play since 2011. Viewership numbers between the two scenes are also difficult to compare as the Overwatch League is one giant global league while League of Legends has 14 smaller leagues with their own standings and playoffs that then feeds into an end of season tournament to crown a world champion. Not all of LoL's 14 leagues are equal in terms of skill, player base, and viewership but the main 4 North America, Europe, China, and Korea are going to have significance in terms of generating revenue.

Still, you can see a breakdown of viewership numbers for LoL's North American region and Overwatch here: Why Comparing Viewership in Esports is Imperfect, But Necessary - The Esports Observer

Based on the article and my own knowledge of E-sports Overwatch may have the better exclusive deals with Twitch and ESPN but especially with their EU region franchising for next season LoL probably has many more monetized eyeballs watching their games.

All this is to say that the buy-in for an Overwatch team is likely too high if we assume that Riot wasn't asking for lowball numbers for LoL teams when they franchised last year. That isn't to say that it's a bad investment or even to say that a LoL team is a better one but it's some food for thought.

 

[MS]

People paying money to watch other people play video games is a thing? Jeez.

 

[Melvin]

People paying money to watch other people play video games is a thing? Jeez.

We have witnessed the precise moment when MS realized he was old.

 

[Tables of Stats]

People paying money to watch other people play video games is a thing? Jeez.

People paying money to watch other people play a sport is a thing? Jeez.

It's literally called E-sports and players put in as much time training as a traditional athlete. They're even starting to pay players like pro athletes and draw eyeballs like traditional sports. Don't be the traditionalist who scoffs at a thing they don't understand, give E-sports a chance and you might like it.

 

[Breakers]

Makes sense

They sold out GM Place in 25 minutes for this event and the prize was $25 million

 

[Tables of Stats]

Makes sense

They sold out GM Place in 25 minutes for this event and the prize was $25 million

That was a different game. They sold out for DotAs International they bought an Overwatch team, which is a very different game in a very different genre.

 

[Nuckles]

Is overwatch still popular? Everyone I know lost interest in it a while ago when they kept on making terrible buffs/nerfs that resulted in boring/annoying metas.

 

[Siludin]

"Heroes of the Storm"
Way to name a game even less relevant than Overwatch

"Starcraft"
Dead game tbh

Wow this user has so much imagination... he can't even extrapolate how examples of massively successful multiplayer games might eventually receive sequels or that the video game company that continually breaks records for video game sales might be able to release another popular game

 

[Siludin]

People paying money to watch other people play video games is a thing? Jeez.

World Chess Championship 2018 - Wikipedia
Albeit video games have much much larger viewing audiences and prize pools.

 

[Tables of Stats]

Wow this user has so much imagination... he can't even extrapolate how examples of massively successful multiplayer games might eventually receive sequels or that the video game company that continually breaks records for video game sales might be able to release another popular game

HotS isn't massive by MOBA standards and really doesn't have an E-sports scene.

Starcraft may have been the OG E-sport, but Blizzard did a really poor job with SC2 in that regard. There have been no leaks about SC3 being in production so I wouldn't bank on that E-sports scene anytime soon.

 

[Intangibos]

Wow this user has so much imagination... he can't even extrapolate how examples of massively successful multiplayer games might eventually receive sequels or that the video game company that continually breaks records for video game sales might be able to release another popular game

Unlike you who has quite the imagination. It takes one to be capable of imagining Heroes of the Storm as a massively successful multiplayer game

People paying money to watch other people play video games is a thing? Jeez.

People watch things they can relate to. Do you like golf? Plenty of people watch golf on TV and lots of people wonder why the f*** anyone would watch golf on TV.

Hundreds of millions of people play video games online and they know the elite players from their respective games. They watch them play to improve and grow to enjoy their personalities developing a type of connection. This connection is similar to how you would want Burrows to win a cup with Ottawa despite him no longer being a Canuck (if he were still playing and this was a realistic scenario).

Watching sports for many people is boring in a vacuum, and I agree to an extent. I can appreciate hockey and other sports and watch them a bit, just based on the skill it takes and the entertainment value. However if two teams that aren't rivals are in the SCF, I honestly don't really care. I wanted Washington to win for Ovechkin and that's it.

Wanting your favorite player to win his championship in a video game is similar as it creates the same connection. The suspense of watching your guys win or lose in real time, watching them take the 2-0 lead and then get let in 3 straight giving you that sick feeling in your stomach. Then the joy of tying it up and winning the game in OT. It's not about the skill of hockey, it's about the emotions. You don't need it to be a real sport to have the emotions, you just need some way to find a connection to the competitors in the first place.



These people are cheering because they care about the teams, and what the action represents, not the action itself. I'm sure you must realize you feel the same about hockey as well. If you were at the SCF this year and the SCF in 2011, would you have felt the same? If we all love hockey so much, why do I have doubts that we'll hear anything that loud during a Canucks game all season?

My sister played bridge for the Canadian national team, and I'm sure nobody here would care at all, who the f*** cares about bridge. However to the people who play bridge they sit around and watch the games online because it's interesting to them and they want either their friends or their nation to win.

I'm not really sure why people have the attitude that the only competitions you should cheer for are legitimate sports.

 

[DL44]

For some context, Riot Games asked for a franchising fee of $10 million when they moved their North American away from a promotion-relegation system to one where teams keep their spots even after a bad season. Since this change player salaries have increased from an average salary of $105,000 per year, closer to $150,000 with sponsorship deals and streaming in the mix, to $320,000 per year. Some of the top paid players earn over $1 million per year. The players are also guaranteed to receive at least 35% of league revenue even if their collective salaries would be less than that.

Teams in the NA LCS tend to have 5 players on that salary level and then 5 other lower level players making less than that. If we assume the lower level players make half that's $2.4 million in just player salaries yearly per franchise. This doesn't factor in coaches, managers, facilities, and other expenses which could easily put yearly expenses for a team into the $3 to $4 million range yearly. Investors wouldn't have bought into the league if they didn't expect to turn a profit though, given the league is in its first year still, we won't know if any teams have started earning back their franchising fee just yet.

Blizzard is asking for a much larger investment for a game that has less of a history behind it. League has been running its competitive scene in an organized way since very near to the game's launch and has had organized pro level play since 2011. Viewership numbers between the two scenes are also difficult to compare as the Overwatch League is one giant global league while League of Legends has 14 smaller leagues with their own standings and playoffs that then feeds into an end of season tournament to crown a world champion. Not all of LoL's 14 leagues are equal in terms of skill, player base, and viewership but the main 4 North America, Europe, China, and Korea are going to have significance in terms of generating revenue.

Still, you can see a breakdown of viewership numbers for LoL's North American region and Overwatch here: Why Comparing Viewership in Esports is Imperfect, But Necessary - The Esports Observer

Based on the article and my own knowledge of E-sports Overwatch may have the better exclusive deals with Twitch and ESPN but especially with their EU region franchising for next season LoL probably has many more monetized eyeballs watching their games.

All this is to say that the buy-in for an Overwatch team is likely too high if we assume that Riot wasn't asking for lowball numbers for LoL teams when they franchised last year. That isn't to say that it's a bad investment or even to say that a LoL team is a better one but it's some food for thought.

Wow.. Thanks for that.. enlightening.

 

[RandV]

People paying money to watch other people play video games is a thing? Jeez.

I'm not 100% certain but I'd think the massive growth in this industry has a lot to do with kids/teens growing up with youtube getting accustomed to it in their formative years.

 

[Pip]

I enjoy playing Overwatch and watching the Overwatch league. This should be great for esports, and could easily be more popular than other Vancouver sports franchises.

People paying money to watch other people play video games is a thing? Jeez.

People like watching others compete at anything at the highest level. Doesn’t matter if it’s hockey, car racing, poker, wrestling, or video games.

 

[CherryToke]

Weed is going legal and esports are legit. Boy did I grow up in the wrong era..

 

[RandV]

People watch things they can relate to. Do you like golf? Plenty of people watch golf on TV and lots of people wonder why the **** anyone would watch golf on TV.

And much like how I can't understand how people could watch something like golf or baseball I really can't fathom why 'MOBA's have been the most popular eSports. Like I'll admit that much like football or soccer I was able to find some general entertainment value in watching Starcraft 2 games without needing to be involved in the players or the sport/game. But League of Legends/MOBA's? That's like the eSport equivalent of cricket as far as I'm concerned. That's one I'll just never be able to get.

 

[lawrence]

these e sports leagues is no bloody joke, it's a multi million dollar business,50 million is a lot of money to the aquillini's is well.. an investment, it might take him 10 years to recooperate that money back, but he will get that money back since we are talking Over watch here.

insert easy juolevi joke here

why him? Pettersson just said he's a huge fortnite fan. Might as well slam him too right Canuck fans?

 

[lawrence]

People paying money to watch other people play video games is a thing? Jeez.

it's a different era............

 

[lawrence]

I enjoy playing Overwatch and watching the Overwatch league. This should be great for esports, and could easily be more popular than other Vancouver sports franchises.



People like watching others compete at anything at the highest level. Doesn’t matter if it’s hockey, car racing, poker, wrestling, or video games.

agreed. although kinda nerdy, just a few years ago I was watching pros play starcraft 2, counter strike, recently mobile legends and fornite, and street fighter 5. watching people play is one thing, watching the highest level players play these games is a different story.

 

[Josepho]

People paying money to watch other people play video games is a thing? Jeez.

Just out of sheer curiosity, do you feel a similar way about people paying to attend things like poker matches?

I don't give a f*** for e-sports (and I think the whole argument for whether or not they're actual sports is stupid), but I can understand why any strategic game has a following.

 

[Intangibos]

And much like how I can't understand how people could watch something like golf or baseball I really can't fathom why 'MOBA's have been the most popular eSports. Like I'll admit that much like football or soccer I was able to find some general entertainment value in watching Starcraft 2 games without needing to be involved in the players or the sport/game. But League of Legends/MOBA's? That's like the eSport equivalent of cricket as far as I'm concerned. That's one I'll just never be able to get.

I think it's because the entire game is essentially shown from a similar view from what you would see if you were playing. If you're watching CS:GO you're either watching the perspective of a single player or you're watching from an outside perspective that you just don't get. It's also more of a strategy oriented game. Mechanical ability is important but overall it plays more like an RTS. MOBA is a relatively vague term and lots of different game types fit into that like Smite. With a FPS game precision mouse movements are extremely important. Also although I'm not a very good FPS player, I think a game like League of Legends has for more real time decision making than a game like CS:GO. With CS:GO you have your objective, your team, and I would assume a general strategy to take and secure a position. While in a game like League you have one final objective but there are constant objectives on the map to fight over. Instead of fighting for the bomb or hostages in CS you have to find openings to gain a big enough advantage over your opponent to win. If you overplay towards one objective you risk being countered elsewhere. You're simultaneously trying to gain map pressure through vision and movements so you can take objectives to increase your relative strength while also trying to deny the enemy the same thing.

Honestly though that probably isn't even true. I think the more reasonable explanation is that League of Legends is like the most popular game in the world so naturally more people are exposed to their competitive scene.

 

[Breakers]

That was a different game. They sold out for DotAs International they bought an Overwatch team, which is a very different game in a very different genre.

Good to know
I know nothing about any of this stuff

The aqualini's should buy a Golden Eye for N64 team

 

[Intangibos]

Just out of sheer curiosity, do you feel a similar way about people paying to attend things like poker matches?

I played poker for years very profitably and have just started again after several years away from it. I find watching poker incredibly dull. Watching actual hand analyses can be interesting, but to actually watch the WSOP as a spectator is pretty dull because good players have somewhat balanced frequencies. For example a player may look at his watch to decide if this is the fraction of the time he should be doing this instead of his standard play. Given that it can be difficult to see if someone is making a mistake or they're balancing their range. Even ignoring frequencies which aren't that big of a deal players have different strategies in general and it's again very hard to know if what they're doing is part of a balanced strategy or a mistake without knowing their overall strategy, and the luck factor that comes into play in a small sample size adds to that as well.

We can see Henrik and Daniel embarrass a D pairing and we can see Tanner Glass whiffing on an open net in the SCF and have a pretty good idea if it was a good or bad play. While it can be more difficult to identify a good hockey play if it doesn't get through it's not as simple with poker. Sometimes laying down the best hand is the right play, sometimes it's not. Sometimes running a big bluff is the right play even if you lose and get eliminated just short of the final table, and it's hard to tell if that's the case.

Poker is awful as a spectator game IMO. Buy some action of players if you want to enjoy it, similar to sports betting. You probably won't be profitable by doing so unless you're aware enough to spot an underrated player and avoid overrated players, and even so you have to deal with variance yourself. Regardless though poker is the type of thing where you need to be cheering for a friend, a player you really like, or have a piece of the action to truly enjoy it at a level above "this is an interesting hand/play".

That's true for anything though. I bet I'd enjoy watching PGA if I put money on it, but I don't like to gamble.

 

[Tables of Stats]

And much like how I can't understand how people could watch something like golf or baseball I really can't fathom why 'MOBA's have been the most popular eSports. Like I'll admit that much like football or soccer I was able to find some general entertainment value in watching Starcraft 2 games without needing to be involved in the players or the sport/game. But League of Legends/MOBA's? That's like the eSport equivalent of cricket as far as I'm concerned. That's one I'll just never be able to get.

MOBAs take some of the aspects of RTS, where the genre got its start as custom maps in Starcraft and Warcraft 3, and take away the Macro aspect of base building. That macro is replaced by increased levels of micromanagement as gameplay centers on your team's characters. The genre also keeps many of the other RTS aspects; scouting, countering your opponents build, economy, map awareness.

Big fights, instead of being between groups of, hopefully, replaceable units are done with heroes who have respawn timers. Those same fights aren't to break a base or deny an expansion but are fought over objectives which either offer buffs or advance your goal of killing towers to get to the enemy base and ultimately win the game. There are still timing attacks, cheesy strategies, outplays, and moments where you wonder how that team or player pulled that fight off.

There are roles, much like in hockey, that tend to favor certain characters over others. In most MOBAs these roles boil down to some combination of Carries (fragile damage dealers that shine most in the late game), Supports (buff or heal other characters, also often responsible for placing items that allow your team to see the map through fog of war), Junglers (they roam between the lanes where the other players spend much of their time, they kill monsters and create uneven concentrations of strength in what the community call ganks), Tanks (they absorb damage but also play a role in catching the opposing team to start fights), Mages (these can be carries, but unlike some classes they rely more on their 4 abilities gained by level ups than their basic attacks). Many characters in games overlap into one or two secondary roles and not all games have metas which rigidly follow these archetypes.

Strategy starts before the game is even played as, in most MOBAs, you get to pick and counter pick your characters against the other team's selections. Most games also allow for a series of bans to add a further layer of strategy to the game. In League of Legends, the game I'm most familiar with, the pick/ban phase starts with three bans which alternate between the teams after each pick. Then comes the first pick phase where the first team to pick makes 1 selection, the next team makes two selections, the first team makes two selections, and the second team makes 1. The sides then ban two more picks each once again alternating. Then the team that picked second in the first round picks, the team that picked first picks twice, and finally, the second team picks their final character.

Given that some champions have an advantage over others and some are just stronger overall you can change a series with how you approach your picks and bans. The side with first pick often gets fewer chances to see what the other team is doing and counter them with a pick of their own, but they get the first pick of the characters left up after the first ban phase. Sometimes they can even intentionally leave up a strong character that would normally be banned in hopes of forcing their opponents to pick it into a pre-planned counter attack or pass on it and give them an extra preferred character.

Once in game, you need to kill minions (also called creeps or mobs) with the goal being to kill the towers (defensive units that shoot at you and your minions) that keep you away from your opponent's base. Minions that you score the final hit on give you some amount of gold which is used to buy items and experience which you use to level up. You can also kill enemy characters for large chunks of gold and exp as well as the chance to create a situation where you have the numbers advantage for a short time. There are other map objectives that can offer unique advantages to the team that scores the last hit on them and these often vary the most between games in this genre.

Games tend to last between 20 and 45 minutes with exceptions being rare and making for a nice change of pace once in a while. The Meta, or way the game is played, often changes from season to season and even within seasons as new champions become dominant and the developers make changes to keep any single champion or set of champions from being overly represented. Some games even entirely rework old characters or regularly add new ones to keep things spicy.

I personally find LoL easier to follow than DotA mostly due to the brighter character and map design but I can respect both as sports.

I'm sure you know all of these things, but for those who haven't played or watched a MOBA I figured I'd lay down some info from a fan's perspective.

Here's a pretty exciting game taken from a European LCS playoff series. The regional finals are this week for those whose attention has been caught:

 

[Melvin]

I don't know how this e sports stuff works but the thing with poker and chess and golf is thst you usually watching specifically chosen footage.

I have enjoyed watching poker but it's usually not live. It is usually an edit where they have selected the most interesting hands. Similarly with golf, although it may be live they are typically bouncing you to whatever hole is most dramatic rather than watching the whole thing which would be almost impossible.

To what extent is this the case with esports? How are they deciding what footage to watch?