Interesting insight from Andrew Ference (31 Thoughts: The Podcast)

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Bangers

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Ference makes some good points, but he kinda loses credibility when he says Eakins was a good coach.

The swarm defence, the focus on winning the Corsi battle, and his idea that a perfect game involves no hits???

Definitely a hockey genius, that one.
 

belair

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And you know thus to be a fact?

Can anyone explain to me how an athlete in 2014/15 can compete in a professional sport - AND BE ONE OF THE TOP PERFORMERS - if he gets pissed most nights and never takes practice seriously?

WTFs the matter with everyone's brain?
Know what to be fact? That he wasn't considered for captain? IT WAS GIVEN TO ANDREW FERENCE. A guy with ZERO GP in Edmonton. Is that not black and white to you? The team saw character flaws in the kid. That doesn't take away from what he did on the ice.

As I mentioned prior, none of this is new. I've always figured that pretty much everyone assumed that group was checked out in that era of the team. Those young guys got complacent and the 'alphas' of that group were never truly capable of executing any kind of defensive system at this level. The team was broken and everyone involved was to blame. GM, scouts, coaches, captains, goalies, offence, defense--you name it--that team was rotten to the core.
 
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Del Preston

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My media friend talked with one of the suspected players about Ference a few years ago. It got to the point where the player and one of his teammates really cut back on going out to bars because every time they did Ference would rat them out to the coaches and/or management (regardless of how tame the night was, I believe). Instead they would go over to a former player's house just to hang out.

I don't think Ference is lying but he's probably exaggerating some of the things he said.
 

Soundwave

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My media friend talked with one of the suspected players about Ference a few years ago. It got to the point where the player and one of his teammates really cut back on going out to bars because every time they did Ference would rat them out to coaches and/or management (regardless of how tame the night was, I believe). Instead they would go over to a former player's house just to hang out.

Dude definitely seems like a snitch and was all into that uber-healthy vegan lifestyle. And not that there's anything wrong with that if that's your choice, but it seems like he took on the role of being the uppity hall monitor.

I've also heard that Eakins' practices were lax, heavy on "Eakins theory" and Xs and Os and light on hard work/hard skating.
 

Canada Drai

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Imagine being an 18 year old millionaire, given the keys to the city and every night a different, beautiful women wants to sleep with you. Not many guys can resist that lifestyle. It’s up to the team to keep their players reeled in. The NFL and NBA do it.

NFL players are probably the WORST in major sports when it comes to off the field antics.
 
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Soundwave

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NFL players are probably the WORST in major sports when it comes to off the field antics.

Yeah honestly NHL players are fairly mild compared to other sports. I think even golfers (lol) might be more wild than hockey players, and hockey players are definitely not angels themselves.
 
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Canada Drai

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Snet brings the comments on the Ference interview but leave out any rebuttal, by the actual player, RNH, as if rebuttal never even happened.

Why? Because they're milking the ****ing lame Friedman podcast.

When you know a station has completely jumped the shark.

This is our broadcast, an Oilers broadcast, and its being trolled with this Ference **** and the SNet crew backing it all the way.

A Flames broadcst wouldn't flame us harder than that podcast coverage tonight.

Be better SNet. This is simply troll broadcasting at this point and Friedman is a joke.

It's actually hilarious, we're on this nice streak and then this junk gets brought up? LMFAO

Might get the boys to play even harder for each other though.
 

HumbleEgomaniac

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What proof do you have that Taylor Hall divided the locker room?
You dont think the 'supposed new core' of the team got a little pissed off when out of nowhere a 34year old (+-) #5 defenseman lands here and is awarded the C from the most ridiculous Rookie coach in history? C'mon.
These were kids. No different than the kids on any other org. They needed direction, structure, and guidance to mature into even better players than they were.

That came from nowhere. Not the inept management, not the foolish ego driven coach and his gym buddy captain. Nowhere.
Which was sh**ty but just another part of this illustrious no-plan, seat of the pants organization.

But why bring it up now?

What proof do you have that there was no attempt at giving direction?

Ference said there was multiple issues with the team, including management and himself (on twitter). He was asked about his time in Edmonton. He talked about his experiences here. If you can't handle it, then ignore the topic and move on. I am just going off what he said.

As far as why bring it up now? Because Sports Media companies need to attract attention to acquire advertising dollars? This generates buzz? Who knows? I don't think Ference is being disingenuous. I also don't think the Oilers now give a flying f*** what anyone thinks of them. So I think we can all put the pitchforks down and calm down.
 
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bucks_oil

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You’re a breath of fresh air aren’t you? Go save a tree with Ference. I have no idea what he didn’t or didn’t try to do. I know that he failed miserably if he tried.

The funny thing to me in this thread is the incongruence (and polarization) in so many of the opinions. I read Ference comments as saying exactly that: "I tried and failed miserably".

If we know that period was a dark period... and we know that team did not perform on the ice... why is it so sacrosanct to some of you that one of its supposed leaders said "there were problems and I got frustrated trying to fix them". What's so surprising/insulting about that? Most of those guys aren't even here anymore.

It's great that RNH defended the guys from that period. He also went on to say there is a different culture now. That's evident to most of us watching the team... but it certainly doesn't mean there weren't problems (that we could all see reflected on ice) 3-4 years ago.

RNH and Ference's perspective CAN co-exist. One guy saying it wasn't professional, another guy, 15-years younger saying "it wasn't that bad". These guys were at opposite extremes of their careers and would have had opposite perspectives on what they felt was needed to build a successful team. It isn't uncommon for young people to have no clue how their behavior unintentionally affects others. It isn't uncommon for older people to look down their nose at the useful exuberance and misinterpret it as a lack of focus. At 1000 feet, that's what Ference is complaining about... there was a culture gap that he was asked to bridge, he couldn't and he found it frustrating.
 

Drivesaitl

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The funny thing to me in this thread is the incongruence (and polarization) in so many of the opinions. I read Ference comments as saying exactly that: "I tried and failed miserably".

If we know that period was a dark period... and we know that team did not perform on the ice... why is it so sacrosanct to some of you that one of its supposed leaders said "there were problems and I got frustrated trying to fix them". What's so surprising/insulting about that? Most of those guys aren't even here anymore.

It's great that RNH defended the guys from that period. He also went on to say there is a different culture now. That's evident to most of us watching the team... but it certainly doesn't mean there weren't problems (that we could all see reflected on ice) 3-4 years ago.

RNH and Ference's perspective CAN co-exist. One guy saying it wasn't professional, another guy, 15-years younger saying "it wasn't that bad". These guys were at opposite extremes of their careers and would have had opposite perspectives on what they felt was needed to build a successful team. It isn't uncommon for young people to have no clue how their behavior unintentionally affects others. It isn't uncommon for older people to look down their nose at the useful exuberance and misinterpret it as a lack of focus. At 1000 feet, that's what Ference is complaining about... there was a culture gap that he was asked to bridge, he couldn't and he found it frustrating.

All of that is fine, and another great post btw.

But there is a difference in thinking something like that, having internal thoughts, vs broadcasting them to national media in a podcast you know is going to be huge news. Thees a difference between having an opinion, vs projecting that opinion and assuming it is right regarding other players. Ference isn't lending an opinion in the podcast. He's trying to say what it was going on. He's concluding he's right. His whole narrative skips that this is just his perspective. His phrasing assumes that what he saw IS the case.

Basically what Ference witnessed and experienced here is a team without enough vets. Specifically lacking mid age hockey players, age 24-28 that typically make up the glue in rosters, that glue young players to older players and that are CRITICAL in lineups. You have to have those guys in a team pro sport. Teams that have more players in that prime age range are typically more bonded.

But heres the deal. You don't hear Hendricks talking about all this. He was tireless in trying to reach these guys and appeared to love the challenge. he would make overtures, take some fishing, do things with the lads. He was considered cool. Hendricks was never considered anything other than a nice guy with a lot of drive that wanted to make the team better. Everybody got that. Boyd, conversely conveyed a grumpy bit of detach but kept it to himself. My sense is he didn't like it here but he was professional about it through and through. Neither Boyd or Hendricks aired bad laundry subsequent to being here. Its interesting though that the captain did, and that is all on Ference. These comments now become more of his legacy.

That's the thing in life. sometimes you do things, say things that are hurtful. Even with apologies these are events that you don't get a mulligan on, you don't get a do over. They then shape peoples perception of you whether they occur in family, or in work, in life. Ference did this on National media. It removes all doubt. Ference came in here as an opinionated captain, and from reports we are hearing now even outed to the org when he heard the young uns were out drinking. he looked down on the kids, judged them, categorized them, this is all clear.

Look, people think I'm a curmudgeon, and theres times where I can feel like a "get off my lawn" kind of adult. But its up to all of us to resist those impulses and stay connected, and commune with all ages. Be able to have dialog, friendliness with all ages. When and if we lose that we succumb to miserable.. That's a choice, I think, for all of us.

Yes, maybe I'm failing but I'm not blasting young uns on podcasts on national media like some curmudgeon. What Ference, really, evoked is an age old generation gap that has been going on since the dawn of recorded history.

I'll leave the readers with this. Said to be Socrates, but could be Plato, could be an amalgam of historic opinion. Chiefly, it is opinion;

AUTHOR:Socrates (469–399 B.C.)
QUOTATION:The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 
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McFlash97

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Ference is the type of guy whether in class at school or when you're just hanging out with your buddies, as he walks into the conversation, everyone shuts up.

The guy was an extension of Eakins ludicrous tactics. He also came across as a snitch, stole 16 million from the Oilers and went riding his bike into the sunset. Now 4 years later during this great run the Oilers are on....Hes come back.
 

bucks_oil

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Aug 25, 2005
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I thought this article was an interesting read. Interesting to see Eakins doing well in the AHL. People learn.

Dallas Eakins still cheering for Edmonton Oilers success in wake of Andrew Ference’s team criticism

My unfounded, completely opinionated, opinions on that era, which I am glad is over are:
  • There was an emerging leader in that era and he wasn't quite ready for it. Hall was a great leader on the ice, but he didn't realize leadership goes beyond that. What he didn't get (IMO) is that 9 of 10 guys in that league can't get there on talent alone, whereas he could. Thus the behaviors he may or may not have had off ice (even including aloofness, or a tight group of friends) don't necessarily fly as a leader when everyone else is looking at you. There is a sacrifice for the group that you have to make (and no, it isn't fair, but that's sometimes what it takes). I think he's matured a tonne since he left, he's said so himself. He's so young, people need to cut him a break... some guys aren't natural leaders in that same way.
  • It was unfair to thrust Hall into a leadership role he wasn't ready for. Bringing in vet leaders with great reputation like Ference and Hendricks was the right thing to do... but expecting fading role-players to naturally assume leadership roles by annointment was the wrong thing to do. How would it ever work? Those guys became leaders by the way the played on the ice and their legs could no longer carry them there... They did alright with Hendy, who adopted a "I'm going to do this quietly" approach. With Ference, IMO they set him up for failure, thinking that his on ice play was still going to naturally shine through. This was a terrible management/coaching decision.
  • Dallas Eakins... I hated him. He might end up being a good coach, but he was tone-deff in Edmonton. The preseason stuff about being a daddy rather than a mommy... that was ok, but Daddy needed to be paying attention and even-handed in his approach. It didn't work and he was too self-absorbed to know it.
  • Jordan Eberle: Was a fave of mine. I appreciate that he thought the game only in one direction, but he had icy nerves that we never had a chance to exploit and he will one day be a playoff hero. Defense is not something he understood innately, but I think he was trying... but again, a guy who didn't realize how his play would affect others... those THOUSANDS of times that he came in on the forecheck got within a couple of feet and didn't throw the hit? Yeah... if you are a D and Ebs is coming at you, your pass accuracy is 100% cuz you aren't afraid of ANYTHING.... you know he'll curl off anyway and leave you holding the puck. THAT RIGHT THERE is what made Edmonton so EASY to play against. Nothing we ever did without the puck would surprise you.
  • RNH: is a great player who got infected with two things: 1) fear of making a mistake (I blame Eakins), 2) gradually losing his hunger (I blame Ebs, see above). I think Nuge was a good kid who was trying to make his way... but on a team that failed to finish checks, that became predictable, his reaction was too passive. In years one or two, he'd have thrown that hit on the forecheck... in years 3++ he was too timid to do it for fear of failure. He's getting his mojo back, but he's still got some passive habits that got drilled into him by bad example and bad coaching.
  • Drinking and partying: is exactly what I'd want to do at that age after a loss... but the best leaders I ever had, knew that after a loss/setback it was 3 or 4 to cut the pain, get to the point where you could all laugh together and then call it a night. Nothing good comes of staying later when you are hurting (it either goes very dark, or the escape drinking doesn't end). The rewards of late-night fun come when the time is right (like after a win, when the coach gives an "optional")
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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I wonder now that Ference is an employee of the NHL what the league thinks of his candid interview on one of its leagues key partners in the Oilers. I imagine a protest letter will be written to the league by Oilers execs (whom Ference called out) ripping the NHL for one of their employees being disruptive to their current season

I also imagine Ference will be persona non grata at future Oilers alumni events. After all Lowe and MacTavish have pretty thin skins and pretty long memories when it comes to this sort of thing.
 
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StevenF1919

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My media friend talked with one of the suspected players about Ference a few years ago. It got to the point where the player and one of his teammates really cut back on going out to bars because every time they did Ference would rat them out to the coaches and/or management (regardless of how tame the night was, I believe). Instead they would go over to a former player's house just to hang out.

I don't think Ference is lying but he's probably exaggerating some of the things he said.
Lol no wonder no players respected him. What a snitch.
 
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bucks_oil

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All of that is fine, and another great post btw.

But there is a difference in thinking something like that, having internal thoughts, vs broadcasting them to national media in a podcast you know is going to be huge news. Thees a difference between having an opinion, vs projecting that opinion and assuming it is right regarding other players. Ference isn't lending an opinion in the podcast. He's trying to say what it was going on. He's concluding he's right. His whole narrative skips that this is just his perspective. His phrasing assumes that what he saw IS the case.

Basically what Ference witnessed and experienced here is a team without enough vets. Specifically lacking mid age hockey players, age 24-28 that typically make up the glue in rosters, that glue young players to older players and that are CRITICAL in lineups. You have to have those guys in a team pro sport. Teams that have more players in that prime age range are typically more bonded.

But heres the deal. You don't hear Hendricks talking about all this. He was tireless in trying to reach these guys and appeared to love the challenge. he would make overtures, take some fishing, do things with the lads. He was considered cool. Hendricks was never considered anything other than a nice guy with a lot of drive that wanted to make the team better. Everybody got that. Boyd, conversely conveyed a grumpy bit of detach but kept it to himself. My sense is he didn't like it here but he was professional about it through and through. Neither Boyd or Hendricks aired bad laundry subsequent to being here. Its interesting though that the captain did, and that is all on Ference. These comments now become more of his legacy.

That's the thing in life. sometimes you do things, say things that are hurtful. Even with apologies these are events that you don't get a mulligan on, you don't get a do over. They then shape peoples perception of you whether they occur in family, or in work, in life. Ference did this on National media. It removes all doubt. Ference came in here as an opinionated captain, and from reports we are hearing now even outed to the org when he heard the young uns were out drinking. he looked down on the kids, judged them, categorized them, this is all clear.

Look, people think I'm a curmudgeon, and theres times where I can feel like a "get off my lawn" kind of adult. But its up to all of us to resist those impulses and stay connected, and commune with all ages. Be able to have dialog, friendliness with all ages. When and if we lose that we succumb to miserable.. That's a choice, I think, for all of us.

Yes, maybe I'm failing but I'm not blasting young uns on podcasts on national media like some curmudgeon. What Ference, really, evoked is an age old generation gap that has been going on since the dawn of recorded history.

I'll leave the readers with this. Said to be Socrates, but could be Plato, could be an amalgam of historic opinion. Chiefly, it is opinion;

AUTHOR:Socrates (469–399 B.C.)
QUOTATION:The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Hah... excellent post. We're not that far apart on how we saw the faultlines in that team.

I especially agree on the Hendy part (and interesting opinion on Boyd, could be true). On Ference, we differ a bit. I take him at face value for what he was... outspoken, passionate... never diplomatic. He had plenty he could have offered (and probably some that he did offer) to this team, but you can't just parachute his type of leadership in... and if a guy like that lacks diplomacy, you better... as management... be damn sure he can still back it up on the ice, else he'll never establish the soft-power he needs to speak so frankly. (even though I think his message was sorely needed in that group)

I also forgive his outburst... It's true he ran his mouth on things he was unprepared to talk about and as per your comments about legacy, I'm sure he regrets it.

But they say the greatest strengths overplayed become weaknesses and that may clearly be the case with Ference.

Finally... I DO subscribe to the Stanley Cup resume thing... at least more than you appear to. To win it I believe you need everyone playing to their own version of 100%. To me that's the beauty of team and sport... we can have divergent talents, but against the toughest of challenges, it can only come together if we're all honest in acknowledging our strengths, weaknesses and playing the tip-top of our abilities... and our teammates will always have our backs. That's the SC lesson you put on that resume. Our own boys on the bus talked about it when they realized the winning Islanders were more tired than they were.

PS: the situations are very different, but I'm sure some of you remember how poorly Messier's leadership style came across in Vancouver with Big Bert back in the day. There are some definite parallels there.
 
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Fixed to Ruin

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Ference was the teachers pet. He should have focused on leading instead of being a *****

6b5.jpg
 

Sweetpotato

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Every time this guy speaks in public, he exaggerates everything, says dumb shit and loses credibility. He was a terrible leader other than his work for the community and didn't have a clue.
 

Paperbagofglory

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Nov 15, 2010
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Andrew Ference is just like Chris Paul of the NBA. Players hate him cause hes a management suck up and will stick by the bosses rather then stick up for his teammates.

Saying Eakins was a good coach was very telling. Hes a good coach because he was nice to you and gave you way too many starts and ice time based on your friendship. This is part of what made Eakins an even worse coach, he played favorites too often and it showed. Suck up to Eakins and his carrot stick philosophy and you were in his good books, both kind of seemed like vegan soy boys that loved to talk a big game but sucked at their actual job.
 
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joestevens29

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Apr 30, 2009
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Ference makes some good points, but he kinda loses credibility when he says Eakins was a good coach.

The swarm defence, the focus on winning the Corsi battle, and his idea that a perfect game involves no hits???

Definitely a hockey genius, that one.
Makes very good points and nothing that is overly new. The one thing though as Gregor and yourself mentioned is how much he praises Eakins. Gregor goes on to mention this and I agree 100% with.

  • Ference’s comment about his coach illustrates to me he was closer to him than his teammates. As a captain, that isn’t how you create a winning environment. You have to find a way to connect with your players, and when he essentially tattled on them to the coach, about being out late, Eakins responded with 8 a.m. practices. Not the best way to build a winning culture. Did the captain communicate properly to the young players, or did he have a hard time adapting to young players after being a complementary player on a veteran-laden, Stanley Cup contending and winning team? I think every player, coach and management played a role in the losing.
While Ference points were valid he should realize that he wasn't any part of the solution either.
 
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Skar

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I thought this article was an interesting read. Interesting to see Eakins doing well in the AHL. People learn.

Dallas Eakins still cheering for Edmonton Oilers success in wake of Andrew Ference’s team criticism

My unfounded, completely opinionated, opinions on that era, which I am glad is over are:
  • There was an emerging leader in that era and he wasn't quite ready for it. Hall was a great leader on the ice, but he didn't realize leadership goes beyond that. What he didn't get (IMO) is that 9 of 10 guys in that league can't get there on talent alone, whereas he could. Thus the behaviors he may or may not have had off ice (even including aloofness, or a tight group of friends) don't necessarily fly as a leader when everyone else is looking at you. There is a sacrifice for the group that you have to make (and no, it isn't fair, but that's sometimes what it takes). I think he's matured a tonne since he left, he's said so himself. He's so young, people need to cut him a break... some guys aren't natural leaders in that same way.
  • It was unfair to thrust Hall into a leadership role he wasn't ready for. Bringing in vet leaders with great reputation like Ference and Hendricks was the right thing to do... but expecting fading role-players to naturally assume leadership roles by annointment was the wrong thing to do. How would it ever work? Those guys became leaders by the way the played on the ice and their legs could no longer carry them there... They did alright with Hendy, who adopted a "I'm going to do this quietly" approach. With Ference, IMO they set him up for failure, thinking that his on ice play was still going to naturally shine through. This was a terrible management/coaching decision.
  • Dallas Eakins... I hated him. He might end up being a good coach, but he was tone-deff in Edmonton. The preseason stuff about being a daddy rather than a mommy... that was ok, but Daddy needed to be paying attention and even-handed in his approach. It didn't work and he was too self-absorbed to know it.
  • Jordan Eberle: Was a fave of mine. I appreciate that he thought the game only in one direction, but he had icy nerves that we never had a chance to exploit and he will one day be a playoff hero. Defense is not something he understood innately, but I think he was trying... but again, a guy who didn't realize how his play would affect others... those THOUSANDS of times that he came in on the forecheck got within a couple of feet and didn't throw the hit? Yeah... if you are a D and Ebs is coming at you, your pass accuracy is 100% cuz you aren't afraid of ANYTHING.... you know he'll curl off anyway and leave you holding the puck. THAT RIGHT THERE is what made Edmonton so EASY to play against. Nothing we ever did without the puck would surprise you.
  • RNH: is a great player who got infected with two things: 1) fear of making a mistake (I blame Eakins), 2) gradually losing his hunger (I blame Ebs, see above). I think Nuge was a good kid who was trying to make his way... but on a team that failed to finish checks, that became predictable, his reaction was too passive. In years one or two, he'd have thrown that hit on the forecheck... in years 3++ he was too timid to do it for fear of failure. He's getting his mojo back, but he's still got some passive habits that got drilled into him by bad example and bad coaching.
  • Drinking and partying: is exactly what I'd want to do at that age after a loss... but the best leaders I ever had, knew that after a loss/setback it was 3 or 4 to cut the pain, get to the point where you could all laugh together and then call it a night. Nothing good comes of staying later when you are hurting (it either goes very dark, or the escape drinking doesn't end). The rewards of late-night fun come when the time is right (like after a win, when the coach gives an "optional")
Great points here, I agree completely. Also nice to see Eakins take the high road here. Ference should have done the same.
 
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