Interesting insight from Andrew Ference (31 Thoughts: The Podcast)

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FanOfSadTeam

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Andrew Ference on the Bruins, Oilers and Flames – Sportsnet

Didn't know where to post this so I made it's own thread. Ference talks about his time with the Oilers. Basically not a lot of good (starts around the 00:33:00 mark):
  • Said players don't do well here because they're too afraid to make mistakes (and thus grow their game) because the media and fans will attack them and drive them out. Brought up Schultz and Petry as examples.
  • He was not too happy with the Oilers due to the drastic difference in work ethic and commitment
  • Other players who came from contenders/Stanley Cup teams were also frustrated by the lack of effort from the team
  • Says Eakins was a good coach ("unfairly treated", "was he perfect? no") that demanded good work ethic but there was a group of players who refused to put any effort into practices. They were "too cool" to practice and were all talk when it came to winning. These players also had derogatory terms for teammates who tried too hard during practice.
  • This group of players were all talk (in front of the media about wanting to win) and were more interested in living the partying lifestyle.
  • Respect was given out based on "how well your toedrag was" and so it was hard getting much respect as a #4-5 defencemen.
Anyways, it's a good listen. Even if you agree or disagree, it's good to hear a different perspective (which was another theme of the podcast)
 

oobga

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Holy crap, that's a brutal summary of the state of this team from that period. Oilers shoulda got him to sign an NDA :)
 

FanOfSadTeam

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Yeah I'm sure those teams were bad because of the partying and not because players like Ference were playing 20+ minutes a night.

Guy is the worst captain in Oilers history and I've yet to see him acknowledge that his **** play was a big factor in those teams being godawful.
That still doesn't negate what he says. Like I said, he provides a different perspective. Plus, he acknowledges that he was a 4-5 d-man. He's not the main reason the team was shit...for a decade.
 

Jimmi McJenkins

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Yeah I'm sure those teams were bad because of the partying and not because players like Ference were playing 20+ minutes a night.

Guy is the worst captain in Oilers history and I've yet to see him acknowledge that his **** play was a big factor in those teams being godawful.
But you're a Devils fan, and he's never played there.

He also lived the time, so I would suspect he has much better understanding of the reality of the situation then you could ever hope to.
 

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Here is a transcript I put together of his words. I suggest that everyone read it rather than doing the easy "He was a terrible captain and Eakins was a terrible coach" posting. Rather listen to it so you can hear it first hand and his passion and disappointment in the team.

On Lucic:
He’s got as much pride as anybody, absolutely loves being in the NHLand loves playing an important role on a team. I see the same frustrations that I had too in going Edmonton about certain aspects of going there and especially coming from a really dialled in culture. When you’ve seen a dialled in culture and team and how its operating and you go to something different it can be extremely frustrating.

Being from Edmonton and I grew up in Sherwood Park, Ive seen it a million times, there’s always a sacrificial lamb on the team that just gets roasted by the radio guys and the newspaper guys and then the fans just continue that on. I think he’s obviously taken that a bit and you always got the target on your back with the big contract and he’d been the first to admit he should be getting more points and scoring more goals, you get all that.

But its tough, its really tough play there and and to be the centre of so much negativity and I dont care who you are negativity gets to you and doesn’t usually help you at all. Its tough for him and I think that its tough for any player transitioning from a really super important role on a team to a secondary role on the ice. I think he’s still incredibly important in the room and I think thats probably, whenever Ive talked to him, its goals and assists and sometimes your play can dip and change and sometimes its luck and sometimes your just not playing so good but you can always do the stuff in the room and create that culture and lead off the ice.

You always have pretty much full control of that that shouldn’t dip and ebb and fall off the map. So I think for a guy like that thats where you have to maybe transition where your role on the ice isn’t so important but your role off the ice and in the room and as a leader, you have to magnify that yourself and really make yourself important in those ways as well.

On the game changing vis a vis Lucic:
Everythings changing yes, there’s probably not too many defensemen that still like playing against him. Him on the forecheck when he’s all rambunctious and running around, he’s not a fun player to play against. its just that when you’ve had really successful seasons, I don't know what his top line numbers are and his best years but your not hitting those same numbers you used to hit, your not getting the same playing time, your not scoring as many goals, does that mean your horrible?

No, people will automatically look at your contract and have expectations where you should be and so they should but I think its just some people might adjust their own personal expectations a little quicker than others and just accept the fact Im not going to be that 40 goal guy 22 minute a night guy so what can I do. If you dont adjust that quick enough the frustration will be never ending.

On the culture in Edmonton when he played and why doesn’t it work in Edmonton:
(Elliott asking about being the After Hours guest in Edmonton where Edmonton got pummelled that night - he says with a laugh “Surprise!”)

I don’t think it’s one thing. I think its a combination of elements that go into it. I think that aspect of feeling more scared to make a mistake and be the whipping boy rather than being bold and taking your chances and having that confidence to try a play. Some guys might get into that role of being scared to be the whipping boy. I don’t know if that makes sense (Elliott says "I have heard that theory before").

You take less risks, your urge to win and be bold is less than your urge to not be the whipping boy or stand out right? So I think that is one aspect. The quickness that radio or newspaper or fans jump and attack their own guys is horrible. I think that the quickness to defend players within the organization I remember Jeff Petry or Schultz getting raked over the coals and nobody coming to defend them and then just trading them when their value, after they’ve beaten them down for months, then trading them, its like God, its not just for those guys but its for other guys on the team and your looking at it and saying like well f… they don’t have his back, are they going to have mine when its my turn to be the whipping boy you know?

But I think the most frustrating part for me as a player when I went in there straight from Boston was talk is cheap. I went in, Dallas Eakins is a fantastic coach, there’s another whipping boy who got dragged over the coals, he’s a fantastic coach that was dealt just a pure crap hand in a team that would actually listen. You got a group of players that talked about how they wanted to make the playoffs and talked about how sick they were of losing and then by game 3 after losing 6-1 they’re straight out to the bar till 3 in the morning lighting up the night life scene in Edmonton.

Cmon give me a break. It was to the point where it was ridiculous, where the lifestyle was way more important than actually playing the game and making the playoffs but like I said talk is cheap. Even in practice, came from a group where you’re practicing against guys like Bergeron or Chara and your going at each other, game intensity and thats how you get better, thats how you be a playoff contender, thats how you be a champion and you try to instil some of those values, and we had some other guys had been on playoff teams and they had the same frustrations, they’d come and practice hard and theres a group of guys there that had, that were too cool to try hard, like derogatory terms for trying too hard in practice. Thats the culture right. So how do you break that?

Well you come in and try to disrupt. Over the years there have been attempts to disrupt whether it was Eakins or I come in there or Pronger or whoever it was. Different people come in and disrupt but I know personally it was really hard for me. You come in as an older guy but far from being one of the better players on the team so you can be a leader with experience but I am not a game changer, I am a number 4/5 defenceman. Your voice only goes so far with people that only respect how good your toe drag is and wether or not you're out partying.

So your voice doesn’t carry much weight with people that don’t put value on those aspects I was bringing from Boston or that Dallas was trying to instil in the team so was it not only frustrating but it really pissed me off because its a waste of those years in your NHL career where you never get those back and you see a coach like Dallas get really so unfairly treated. Like I said was he perfect, no and he’d be the first to admit that he would rather do some of those things different but taking the blame, what are you supposed to do with a culture like that?


Edit
Forgot to add this bit from Ference in the transcript which was the tail end to a question about systems and how the media were criticizing the swarm when the swarm was not being utilized any longer.

“You could have had any kind of defense or any kind of system. But if you go on a Western swing and your guys are out every single night until 5 in the morning, I mean, you’re not going to win too many games”
 
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StevenF1919

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That still doesn't negate what he says. Like I said, he provides a different perspective. Plus, he acknowledges that he was a 4-5 d-man. He's not the main reason the team was ****...for a decade.
The fact that he was a #4 dman on those teams when he shouldn't have even been in the NHL is exactly why this team was bad (and still is) for so long. You aren't going to win many games with a bunch of AHLers in your lineup.

And he was the captain. Wasn't it his responsibility to change the culture?
 

StevenF1919

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But you're a Devils fan, and he's never played there.

He also lived the time, so I would suspect he has much better understanding of the reality of the situation then you could ever hope to.
You keep saying that you're muting me and then you keep replying to my posts anyways. Obsessed much?
 

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Yeah I'm sure those teams were bad because of the partying and not because players like Ference were playing 20+ minutes a night.

Guy is the worst captain in Oilers history and I've yet to see him acknowledge that his **** play was a big factor in those teams being godawful.

He is a player who is now among several to come forward and say basically the same thing about the culture of the team then.

edit- removed negative comment
 
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TheNumber4

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Agreed that we run players out of town prematurely. We take small sample sizes where a player struggles and acts as if that defines that player absolutely. Ignoring everything that player did previous to the bad stretch and also ignoring the effects of quality of teammates. Other teams swoop in and steal our assets at bargain bin prices because we can’t identify what we have. This happened with Petry, Schulz, and Dubnyk. I’m worried it’ll happen to Nurse.

Appreciate his input of work ethic and commitment. Our fan base would never hear anything about it while it was happening, so now we know.

The too cool to practice kids had to be Hall and friends. No one else had the clout to get away with that kind of behaviour. Hall was treated like the golden child that could do whatever he wants. This is a problem in Edmonton, we overvalue having actual talent because it’s so hard for us to acquire talent, so they treat management like doormats.

Disagree on respect was given to toe drags.atleast if he means respect from fans. Edmonton fans can and do appreciate steady Staois or Jason Smith type contributions. Ference struggled with those basics, so he probably felt this way.
 

StevenF1919

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Here is a transcript I put together of his words. I suggest that everyone read it rather than doing the easy "He was a terrible captain and Eakins was a terrible coach" posting. Rather listen to it so you can hear it first hand and his passion and disappointment in the team.

On Lucic:
He’s got as much pride as anybody, absolutely loves being in the NHLand loves playing an important role on a team. I see the same frustrations that I had too in going Edmonton about certain aspects of going there and especially coming from a really dialled in culture. When you’ve seen a dialled in culture and team and how its operating and you go to something different it can be extremely frustrating.

Being from Edmonton and I grew up in Sherwood Park, Ive seen it a million times, there’s always a sacrificial lamb on the team that just gets roasted by the radio guys and the newspaper guys and then the fans just continue that on. I think he’s obviously taken that a bit and you always got the target on your back with the big contract and he’d been the first to admit he should be getting more points and scoring more goals, you get all that.

But its tough, its really tough play there and and to be the centre of so much negativity and I dont care who you are negativity gets to you and doesn’t usually help you at all. Its tough for him and I think that its tough for any player transitioning from a really super important role on a team to a secondary role on the ice. I think he’s still incredibly important in the room and I think thats probably, whenever Ive talked to him, its goals and assists and sometimes your play can dip and change and sometimes its luck and sometimes your just not playing so good but you can always do the stuff in the room and create that culture and lead off the ice.

You always have pretty much full control of that that shouldn’t dip and ebb and fall off the map. So I think for a guy like that thats where you have to maybe transition where your role on the ice isn’t so important but your role off the ice and in the room and as a leader, you have to magnify that yourself and really make yourself important in those ways as well.

On the game changing vis a vis Lucic:
Everythings changing yes, there’s probably not too many defensemen that still like playing against him. Him on the forecheck when he’s all rambunctious and running around, he’s not a fun player to play against. its just that when you’ve had really successful seasons, I don't know what his top line numbers are and his best years but your not hitting those same numbers you used to hit, your not getting the same playing time, your not scoring as many goals, does that mean your horrible?

No, people will automatically look at your contract and have expectations where you should be and so they should but I think its just some people might adjust their own personal expectations a little quicker than others and just accept the fact Im not going to be that 40 goal guy 22 minute a night guy so what can I do. If you dont adjust that quick enough the frustration will be never ending.

On the culture in Edmonton when he played and why doesn’t it work in Edmonton:
(Elliott asking about being the After Hours guest in Edmonton where Edmonton got pummelled that night - he says with a laugh “Surprise!”)

I don’t think it’s one thing. I think its a combination of elements that go into it. I think that aspect of feeling more scared to make a mistake and be the whipping boy rather than being bold and taking your chances and having that confidence to try a play. Some guys might get into that role of being scared to be the whipping boy. I don’t know if that makes sense (Elliott says "I have heard that theory before").

You take less risks, your urge to win and be bold is less than your urge to not be the whipping boy or stand out right? So I think that is one aspect. The quickness that radio or newspaper or fans jump and attack their own guys is horrible. I think that the quickness to defend players within the organization I remember Jeff Petry or Schultz getting raked over the coals and nobody coming to defend them and then just trading them when their value, after they’ve beaten them down for months, then trading them, its like God, its not just for those guys but its for other guys on the team and your looking at it and saying like well f… they don’t have his back, are they going to have mine when its my turn to be the whipping boy you know?

But I think the most frustrating part for me as a player when I went in there straight from Boston was talk is cheap. I went in, Dallas Eakins is a fantastic coach, there’s another whipping boy who got dragged over the coals, he’s a fantastic coach that was dealt just a pure crap hand in a team that would actually listen. You got a group of players that talked about how they wanted to make the playoffs and talked about how sick they were of losing and then by game 3 after losing 6-1 they’re straight out to the bar till 3 in the morning lighting up the night life scene in Edmonton.

Cmon give me a break. It was to the point where it was ridiculous, where the lifestyle was way more important than actually playing the game and making the playoffs but like I said talk is cheap. Even in practice, came from a group where you’re practicing against guys like Bergeron or Chara and your going at each other, game intensity and thats how you get better, thats how you be a playoff contender, thats how you be a champion and you try to instil some of those values, and we had some other guys had been on playoff teams and they had the same frustrations, they’d come and practice hard and theres a group of guys there that had, that were too cool to try hard, like derogatory terms for trying too hard in practice. Thats the culture right. So how do you break that?

Well you come in and try to disrupt. Over the years there have been attempts to disrupt whether it was Eakins or I come in there or Pronger or whoever it was. Different people come in and disrupt but I know personally it was really hard for me. You come in as an older guy but far from being one of the better players on the team so you can be a leader with experience but I am not a game changer, I am a number 4/5 defenceman. Your voice only goes so far with people that only respect how good your toe drag is and wether or not you're out partying.

So your voice doesn’t carry much weight with people that don’t put value on those aspects I was bringing from Boston or that Dallas was trying to instil in the team so was it not only frustrating but it really pissed me off because its a waste of those years in your NHL career where you never get those back and you see a coach like Dallas get really so unfairly treated. Like I said was he perfect, no and he’d be the first to admit that he would rather do some of those things different but taking the blame, what are you supposed to do with a culture like that?
Thanks for transcribing everything.

He's dead on about Petry and Schultz, who were two good players that were never put in the position to succeed. Petry especially was really good here and constantly got dumped on anyways for being "soft".

Not sure about Eakins. The team was a disaster with him behind the bench but it's hard to know if it was because of the roster or his terrible coaching. Probably a mix of both.
 

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Disagree on respect was given to toe drags.atleast if he means respect from fans. Edmonton fans can and do appreciate steady Staois or Jason Smith type contributions. Ference struggled with those basics, so he probably felt this way.

He meant from players.
 
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StevenF1919

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He is a player who is now among several to come forward and say basically the same thing about the culture of the team then. Or I guess he is outright lying? Maybe take a break from your spreadsheets and actually listen to the podcast.
It's almost as if winning breeds culture and you can't win without good players huh? Do you think the difference between our team two seasons ago and the current one is culture? Or is it the loss of our best defenseman, a perennial 25 goal scorer and our goalie regressing?
 

oobga

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Thanks for transcribing everything.

He's dead on about Petry and Schultz, who were two good players that were never put in the position to succeed. Petry especially was really good here and constantly got dumped on anyways for being "soft".

Not sure about Eakins. The team was a disaster with him behind the bench but it's hard to know if it was because of the roster or his terrible coaching. Probably a mix of both.

I think the team itself did a very poor job of protecting their players too. Petry and Schultz were served up on a platter to the media. McLellan said flat out that Schultz needed to get the heck off the team after a game to the media. People running this team are cowards and probably see players being attacked as a useful distraction to keep the sights off of themselves.

This management team contributed a lot to creating this culture of the young guys running the show. They all thought Hall and others were just automatically going to turn into Messier and Lowe and how they viewed themselves as great leaders. I'm sure Lowe thinks he became that way just due to genetics, not because of Sather and all the vets the Oilers had when he broken into the league.
 

TB12

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I know a lot of people are going to dismiss what he is saying because, “oh but he was a brutal captain...brutal player, etc”. But I value hearing these things from guys that were inside the room and what was actually going on. Also he seems to echo a lot of things that other people have said about the team and it’s players during that time period.

Some really scathing remarks about how the team operated. Actually surprised he was that candid.
 
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5 Mins 4 Ftg

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It's almost as if winning breeds culture and you can't win without good players huh? Do you think the difference between our team two seasons ago and the current one is culture? Or is it the loss of our best defenseman, a perennial 25 goal scorer and our goalie regressing?

My apologies for being harsh with the spreadsheet comment. It was not called for.

As for culture I defer to what many former Oilers have said about the room. Winning takes talent and commitment and that creates a winning culture. Its plain for me that we had talent but not commitment so we had a poor culture.
 
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FanOfSadTeam

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The fact that he was a #4 dman on those teams when he shouldn't have even been in the NHL is exactly why this team was bad (and still is) for so long. You aren't going to win many games with a bunch of AHLers in your lineup.

And he was the captain. Wasn't it his responsibility to change the culture?
Well if you listen to the 15 min he gives about the Oilers, you'll have an idea. Or easier, read the transcript by 5 Mins 4 Ftg. Basically, how can you affect the culture when the best players are setting poor examples. Too much was shit for one man to fix.
 

TheNumber4

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Remember when Hall sprayed water on Eakins and we all vilified Eakins for his reaction. Maybe there was more behind Eakins frustration towards Hall besides a bit of water....

Edit: Lauded was the wrong word lol.
 
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StevenF1919

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I think the team itself did a very poor job of protecting their players too. Petry and Schultz were served up on a platter to the media. McLellan said flat out that Schultz needed to get the heck off the team after a game to the media. People running this team are cowards and probably see players being attacked as a useful distraction to keep the sights off of themselves.
This organization has a long history of throwing players under the bus. Just look at Arnott, Poti, Souray, etc.
My apologies for being harsh with the spreadsheet comment. It was not called for.

As for culture I defer to what many former Oilers have said about the room. Winning takes talent and commitment and that creates a winning culture. Its plain for me that we had talent but not commitment so we had a poor culture.
No worries. IMO the big problem with the culture back then was that there weren't any vets who could actually play hockey. It's hard to take guys like Ference seriously when they're completely useless out on the ice. Guys like Hall who were insanely talented and driven and who had won everywhere they played were beaten down by a complete lack of support around them.

I can see the same thing happening to McDavid right now. He's looked frustrated at times this season, and I don't blame him.
 

NeverForget06

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I kind of wonder if the same sort of attitudes were beginning to seep back in last year.... Made the 2nd round so now we don't need to keep working hard and can go back to partying.
 

TopShelfGloveSide

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Yeah I'm sure those teams were bad because of the partying and not because players like Ference were playing 20+ minutes a night.

Guy is the worst captain in Oilers history and I've yet to see him acknowledge that his **** play was a big factor in those teams being godawful.
It’s pretty eye opening still.
 
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