Interesting insight from Andrew Ference (31 Thoughts: The Podcast)

[rboomercat90]

BTW, anyone a little skeptical of his claim that the team went out and partied the night of their loss to LA? They played in LA and then had a game in Phoenix the very next day. Are we supposed to believe that they had a flight the next morning? Or that they flew to Phoenix and then partied after landing? His story reeks of BS.

Why couldn’t they fly to Phoenix and go out partying after they landed? The Hall and Whitney podcast talked about the Oilers flights getting back into Edmonton late at night and the two of them hitting the bar before last call. They described it as being a regular thing for them (their own words, not second hand stories from elsewhere), why would it be so hard to believe it was happening on the road too?

 

[talitintti]

Hehe. Just coincidentally read this quote by a Finnish basketball coach, from a Finnish national newspaper. Translated, it reads: "This is a fun business in that how the players behave directly effects the game. Do they greet each other when they enter the dressing room has a direct correlation with the ending result. The better the people in the team treat each other, the better they work together in the field."

Poikola tells and example: "To win, the most important thing is whether the player has the talent to throw the ball in the basket. In the end, that is the nature of sports. If we do not accept this, we do not accept the nature of sports. But how the thrower treats other people in the dressing room always effects whether he gets in the position to throw the ball in the first place."

 

[Stoneman89]

I thought this article was an interesting read. Interesting to see Eakins doing well in the AHL. People learn.

Dallas Eakins still cheering for Edmonton Oilers success in wake of Andrew Ference’s team criticism

My unfounded, completely opinionated, opinions on that era, which I am glad is over are:

• There was an emerging leader in that era and he wasn't quite ready for it. Hall was a great leader on the ice, but he didn't realize leadership goes beyond that. What he didn't get (IMO) is that 9 of 10 guys in that league can't get there on talent alone, whereas he could. Thus the behaviors he may or may not have had off ice (even including aloofness, or a tight group of friends) don't necessarily fly as a leader when everyone else is looking at you. There is a sacrifice for the group that you have to make (and no, it isn't fair, but that's sometimes what it takes). I think he's matured a tonne since he left, he's said so himself. He's so young, people need to cut him a break... some guys aren't natural leaders in that same way.
• It was unfair to thrust Hall into a leadership role he wasn't ready for. Bringing in vet leaders with great reputation like Ference and Hendricks was the right thing to do... but expecting fading role-players to naturally assume leadership roles by annointment was the wrong thing to do. How would it ever work? Those guys became leaders by the way the played on the ice and their legs could no longer carry them there... They did alright with Hendy, who adopted a "I'm going to do this quietly" approach. With Ference, IMO they set him up for failure, thinking that his on ice play was still going to naturally shine through. This was a terrible management/coaching decision.
• Dallas Eakins... I hated him. He might end up being a good coach, but he was tone-deff in Edmonton. The preseason stuff about being a daddy rather than a mommy... that was ok, but Daddy needed to be paying attention and even-handed in his approach. It didn't work and he was too self-absorbed to know it.
• Jordan Eberle: Was a fave of mine. I appreciate that he thought the game only in one direction, but he had icy nerves that we never had a chance to exploit and he will one day be a playoff hero. Defense is not something he understood innately, but I think he was trying... but again, a guy who didn't realize how his play would affect others... those THOUSANDS of times that he came in on the forecheck got within a couple of feet and didn't throw the hit? Yeah... if you are a D and Ebs is coming at you, your pass accuracy is 100% cuz you aren't afraid of ANYTHING.... you know he'll curl off anyway and leave you holding the puck. THAT RIGHT THERE is what made Edmonton so EASY to play against. Nothing we ever did without the puck would surprise you.
• RNH: is a great player who got infected with two things: 1) fear of making a mistake (I blame Eakins), 2) gradually losing his hunger (I blame Ebs, see above). I think Nuge was a good kid who was trying to make his way... but on a team that failed to finish checks, that became predictable, his reaction was too passive. In years one or two, he'd have thrown that hit on the forecheck... in years 3++ he was too timid to do it for fear of failure. He's getting his mojo back, but he's still got some passive habits that got drilled into him by bad example and bad coaching.
• Drinking and partying: is exactly what I'd want to do at that age after a loss... but the best leaders I ever had, knew that after a loss/setback it was 3 or 4 to cut the pain, get to the point where you could all laugh together and then call it a night. Nothing good comes of staying later when you are hurting (it either goes very dark, or the escape drinking doesn't end). The rewards of late-night fun come when the time is right (like after a win, when the coach gives an "optional")

Won't disagree with a lot of this, except for the Nuge part. Like Hall and Ebs, he was a young man still growing, getting physically stronger and some maturing to do. But I feel, more than anything, injuries really hampered and held him back. A couple major injuries took their toll on a guy that was built slight to begin with, playing a very fast and physical sport. Coupled with a team culture of every man for himself, all 3 of the youngsters were left to fend for themselves when the going got rough. I remember when Hall had a fight early in his career, and no one stepped in for him, and let a 19 year kid take a beating. As Nuge has now physically matured to the point he can give and take all kinds of physical engagement, I think the injury woes are now past him and he can look forward to a long and productive career.

 

[Stoneman89]

As an aside, that team was a prime example of one that played with each other, not for each other, to use Hitch's words.

 

[StevenF1919]

This might be a spicy take but I could see Eakins having success in a future NHL coaching job.

Also, he's yet another person involved in this drama that has shown much more class than Ference.

 

[McAsuno]

More class coming from the worst coach in Oilers history.
Knew he wasn't ready and owned up to it while taking blame for not getting the job done. Also doesn't comment on his former players to crap on either. Praised the fanbase too.

Wtf did Ference do? The exact opposite. Get f***ed, you clown.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It's a strange world when Eakins seems like a decent guy.

 

[Drivesaitl]

More class coming from the worst coach in Oilers history.
Knew he wasn't ready and owned up to it while taking blame for not getting the job done. Also doesn't comment on his former players to crap on either. Praised the fanbase too.

Wtf did Ference do? The exact opposite. Get ****ed, you clown.

It takes special skills for ference to come out worse in this than Eakins and credit Eakins for not taking that turn down a dark shady path. Yeah, he learned, he knows he made a lot of mistakes, he knows he wasn't ready for the position. Good on him taking a high road years after the fact.

That's what makes Ference's role very interesting. In that a rook Eakins coach had this veteran SC winner in his ear all the time. Makes you wonder how much Eakins was even influenced, maybe even deterred. Other people said Eakins is a player coach. You never really got that feeling here and the situation quickly became different and he adopted a disciplinary task master role instead. it happens to people inexperienced. Teachers even are very subject to this in their first years. They envision themselves as one kind of teacher, and then in pressure become something else for awhile until or they wake up and have a revelation that they are getting it all wrong.

I think its possible that Eakins might have been impacted by the negativity of Ference, of Lowe, of MacT, combined, all of whom were pretty down on some of the players here. Ference is right in one thing, the situation for Eakins, what he was coming into was probably untenable for a rookie head coach that hadn't even been an assistant at this level. But Ference probably doesn't figure out that he was unintendedly maybe a part of what made it difficult, even though he thinks he was trying to be helpful.

 

[Zaddy]

Pretty obvious that Eakins wasn't gonna say anything negative. The guy is still trying to get back to the NHL. Making a negative comment about any NHL team would be really stupid from a career perspective for him. Ference on the other hand is most likely done with hockey in any shape or form, so he had nothing to lose by making those comments.

I mean, Eakins even said in that interview "You guys will have to wait for my book", implying that there actually is something there but that he can't talk about it right now because of the situation that he's in. Yes, he was 'joking' but there is probably some truth to that. Otherwise he could just shut it down immediately and say "Oh, these guys [Hall & co] were great to work with and I have nothing bad to say about them at all".

But he didn't say that. The only thing he said was that he was cheering for the coaches (Nelson, McLellan and now Hitch), which obviously again is a smart move from his side as he could use those connections in the future.

 

[bone]

I can't get through all of this thread, but considering no name was mentioned, but he mentioned people before him trying to change that mentality (he even referenced as far back as Pronger in there) and couple it with comments from Quinn before that something to the effect of the inmates running the asylum (pre-Hall/Ebs) or the year before that when MacT referenced the culture taking a hit in his last season as head coach, maybe this is something much bigger than Hall and Ebs and ultimately they became a by-product of this.

Who did Hall and Ebs likely look up to in their first years who would be impressionable to them but would have played for Quinn and MacT. Hemsky, Cogs, Gagner, Penner, and possibly Horcoff. Also we witnessed Moreau going from a stellar example of leader to terrible selfish captain in short order during that period.

Makes you wonder if somewhere post-lockout management changed from trying to let the players lead themselves to interfering and letting the meal tickets off without consequence for fear of more trade requests which grew into the culture that bred entitlement particularly in younger star players. This also ties into the timeframe where Katz took over as well.

Perhaps this is where he's frustrated as he and the others he mentions tried to change the culture but were handcuffed, and if this is the case, I don't blame him for being frustrated. But what pisses me off is that the way it comes across seems to vilify individuals rather than the organization/local atmosphere, which is likely where his frustration actually comes from.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I thought this article was an interesting read. Interesting to see Eakins doing well in the AHL. People learn.

Dallas Eakins still cheering for Edmonton Oilers success in wake of Andrew Ference’s team criticism

My unfounded, completely opinionated, opinions on that era, which I am glad is over are:

• There was an emerging leader in that era and he wasn't quite ready for it. Hall was a great leader on the ice, but he didn't realize leadership goes beyond that. What he didn't get (IMO) is that 9 of 10 guys in that league can't get there on talent alone, whereas he could. Thus the behaviors he may or may not have had off ice (even including aloofness, or a tight group of friends) don't necessarily fly as a leader when everyone else is looking at you. There is a sacrifice for the group that you have to make (and no, it isn't fair, but that's sometimes what it takes). I think he's matured a tonne since he left, he's said so himself. He's so young, people need to cut him a break... some guys aren't natural leaders in that same way.
• It was unfair to thrust Hall into a leadership role he wasn't ready for. Bringing in vet leaders with great reputation like Ference and Hendricks was the right thing to do... but expecting fading role-players to naturally assume leadership roles by annointment was the wrong thing to do. How would it ever work? Those guys became leaders by the way the played on the ice and their legs could no longer carry them there... They did alright with Hendy, who adopted a "I'm going to do this quietly" approach. With Ference, IMO they set him up for failure, thinking that his on ice play was still going to naturally shine through. This was a terrible management/coaching decision.
• Dallas Eakins... I hated him. He might end up being a good coach, but he was tone-deff in Edmonton. The preseason stuff about being a daddy rather than a mommy... that was ok, but Daddy needed to be paying attention and even-handed in his approach. It didn't work and he was too self-absorbed to know it.
• Jordan Eberle: Was a fave of mine. I appreciate that he thought the game only in one direction, but he had icy nerves that we never had a chance to exploit and he will one day be a playoff hero. Defense is not something he understood innately, but I think he was trying... but again, a guy who didn't realize how his play would affect others... those THOUSANDS of times that he came in on the forecheck got within a couple of feet and didn't throw the hit? Yeah... if you are a D and Ebs is coming at you, your pass accuracy is 100% cuz you aren't afraid of ANYTHING.... you know he'll curl off anyway and leave you holding the puck. THAT RIGHT THERE is what made Edmonton so EASY to play against. Nothing we ever did without the puck would surprise you.
• RNH: is a great player who got infected with two things: 1) fear of making a mistake (I blame Eakins), 2) gradually losing his hunger (I blame Ebs, see above). I think Nuge was a good kid who was trying to make his way... but on a team that failed to finish checks, that became predictable, his reaction was too passive. In years one or two, he'd have thrown that hit on the forecheck... in years 3++ he was too timid to do it for fear of failure. He's getting his mojo back, but he's still got some passive habits that got drilled into him by bad example and bad coaching.
• Drinking and partying: is exactly what I'd want to do at that age after a loss... but the best leaders I ever had, knew that after a loss/setback it was 3 or 4 to cut the pain, get to the point where you could all laugh together and then call it a night. Nothing good comes of staying later when you are hurting (it either goes very dark, or the escape drinking doesn't end). The rewards of late-night fun come when the time is right (like after a win, when the coach gives an "optional")

Class act by Eakins to own his end.

From Matheson:
MacTavish, who hired Eakins, declined comment about Ference’s criticisms.

Too bad MacTavish doesn’t have the nuts to own the shit show he in large part created. But then what should we expect from Mr.Teflon. He needs a hard kick in the ass out the door and needed it 5 years ago.

 

[Bmessy]

Bruins fan here coming in peace. I've been listening to old spittin chiclets podcasts, for those who don't know that's Ryan Whitney's podcast on barstool sports. Anyways, Eberle and Hall both have been guests and are apparently buddies with Whitney. Also it was mentioned that Whitney lived with Eberle and Hall when they were 22 and 21 and he was 31. If anyone knows about Whitney you know that he is a very big partier. Just thought it was funny listening to some of these podcasts, especially with Ferrence's recent comments. As a franchise I'm sure it wasn't a secrete about a terrible influence living with your 2 superstars. I gotta guess problems arose and management didn't do anything about it (ie trade Whit). I'm sure this is pretty evident to alot of people but figured I'd post anyway.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Bruins fan here coming in peace. I've been listening to old spittin chiclets podcasts, for those who don't know that's Ryan Whitney's podcast on barstool sports. Anyways, Eberle and Hall both have been guests and are apparently buddies with Whitney. Also it was mentioned that Whitney lived with Eberle and Hall when they were 22 and 21 and he was 31. If anyone knows about Whitney you know that he is a very big partier. Just thought it was funny listening to some of these podcasts, with Ferrences comments, and thinking about a terrible influence living with your 2 superstars and management not doing anything about it. I'm sure this is pretty evident to alot of people but figured I'd post anyway. Blame Whitney.

Whitney - another db who loves shitting in Edmonton’s soup bowl on a regular basis. He was useless when he was here and another awful signing by our then “We Know A Thing Or Two About Winning” Knothole Gang. Zero respect for that assclown then and even less now.

 

[Bmessy]

Whitney - another db who loves ****ting in Edmonton’s soup bowl on a regular basis. He was useless when he was here and another awful signing by our then “We Know A Thing Or Two About Winning” Knothole Gang. Zero respect for that assclown then and even less now.

It's been interesting hearing his thoughts on his time in Edmonton while obviously being a part of the leadership problem and also being a bad influence on their young stars. He's still hilarious nonetheless.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

It's been interesting hearing his thoughts on his time in Edmonton while obviously being a part of the leadership problem and also being a bad influence on their young stars. He's still hilarious nonetheless.

Yeah I’ve heard his various takes on his time here and his game analysis when he was doing that gig was always anti-Oiler. Can’t stand the f***er and dont have much time for Bissonette either. It’s like listening to a couple of Jr High 13 year olds, at least the times I have tuned in.

 

[Little Fury]

Yeah I’ve heard his various takes on his time here and his game analysis when he was doing that gig was always anti-Oiler. Can’t stand the ****er and dont have much time for Bissonette either. It’s like listening to a couple of Jr High 13 year olds, at least the times I have tuned in.

Being an absolute d-bag meathead is prerequisite for being associated with B*rst*ol.

 

[Stoneman89]

Actually like the stuff Bissonette does, I think he's pretty funny.,

 

[PBandJ]

I wonder now that Ference is an employee of the NHL what the league thinks of his candid interview on one of its leagues key partners in the Oilers. I imagine a protest letter will be written to the league by Oilers execs (whom Ference called out) ripping the NHL for one of their employees being disruptive to their current season

I also imagine Ference will be persona non grata at future Oilers alumni events. After all Lowe and MacTavish have pretty thin skins and pretty long memories when it comes to this sort of thing.

And hopefully the NHL tells them to shove their protest and try running a hockey team somewhere other than into the ground.

Respect for Ference. This org and the entitled babies who played for it need to be consistently called out.

And Alumni events? Why would Ference want to go to the 30th Gretzky ring kissing ceremony anyway?

 

[MaxR11]

what? you're telling me this face is one of a d****b**?? i don't believe it.

but seriously i had in the past said that whits was definitely not a good influence for the young guys.

 

[joestevens29]

Whitney - another db who loves ****ting in Edmonton’s soup bowl on a regular basis. He was useless when he was here and another awful signing by our then “We Know A Thing Or Two About Winning” Knothole Gang. Zero respect for that assclown then and even less now.

Obviously don't remember how it all played out. Lubo wanted out and we salvaged what we could at the trade deadline.

It's too bad he had foot problems as there was a good stretch where he was a #1 d-man

 

[MaxR11]

Makes very good points and nothing that is overly new. The one thing though as Gregor and yourself mentioned is how much he praises Eakins. Gregor goes on to mention this and I agree 100% with.

• Ference’s comment about his coach illustrates to me he was closer to him than his teammates. As a captain, that isn’t how you create a winning environment. You have to find a way to connect with your players, and when he essentially tattled on them to the coach, about being out late, Eakins responded with 8 a.m. practices. Not the best way to build a winning culture. Did the captain communicate properly to the young players, or did he have a hard time adapting to young players after being a complementary player on a veteran-laden, Stanley Cup contending and winning team? I think every player, coach and management played a role in the losing.

While Ference points were valid he should realize that he wasn't any part of the solution either.

I'll bet Eakins and Ference got together and specifically scheduled 8am practices just so to prevent or dissuade the party animals from staying up late at night getting lit. I think both sides take some blame for the mess. Likely Eakins and Ference created an atmosphere that may have been too aggressively strict and confrontational to those young guys (hall, ebs, schultz etc) right off the hop and being defiant youngsters they revolted in a way. I think it came down to two sides that just weren't made for each other and the fans paid for it.
it's a shame guys like hall weren't more receptive to the culture change that was being implemented but i guess sometimes when someone aggressively demands you to be a certain way it can be off putting to some millennials these days. they're a different breed than guys like ference and eakins who probably did what they were told.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Obviously don't remember how it all played out. Lubo wanted out and we salvaged what we could at the trade deadline.

It's too bad he had foot problems as there was a good stretch where he was a #1 d-man

We were a bad hockey team then. I don’t have any fond memories of those teams. Certainly no love lost for Whitney who I never liked.

 

[PBandJ]

We were a bad hockey team then. I don’t have any fond memories of those teams. Certainly no love lost for Whitney who I never liked.

There's two periods of Oilers history I attempt to ignore.

The 80's Oilers because f*** them, a bunch of them are the reason we suck and the decade of darkness Oilers.

 

[joestevens29]

I'll bet Eakins and Ference got together and specifically scheduled 8am practices just so to prevent or dissuade the party animals from staying up late at night getting lit. I think both sides take some blame for the mess. Likely Eakins and Ference created an atmosphere that may have been too aggressively strict and confrontational to those young guys (hall, ebs, schultz etc) right off the hop and being defiant youngsters they revolted in a way. I think it came down to two sides that just weren't made for each other and the fans paid for it.
it's a shame guys like hall weren't more receptive to the culture change that was being implemented but i guess sometimes when someone aggressively demands you to be a certain way it can be off putting to some millennials these days. they're a different breed than guys like ference and eakins who probably did what they were told.

I liked Hendricks and thought he was a good leader. Was pretty much the only vocal guy on the bench and rumored to be the same in the dressing room. He would've been a better choice for captain, but still even with him there the kids didn't really listen.

Those kids needed a skilled vet to get them to listen, but it was if Ference, Hendricks and Smytty were just washed up vets to those kids.

At the end of the day though I don't know that it was the players faults. I look at Hall's first 4 years, every year it was some combo of Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Yak, RNH and one year Perron(even then Perron was only 25) leading this club offensively. You decide to build a club around young kids what do you think is going to happen?

It's also hard for a Hendricks or Ference to yell at the kids to be better and expect to get results

 

[Soundwave]

I still think even if you replace Hall with the best LW in the game, they still don't make the playoffs.

Ovechkin RNH Eberle
Pouliot Arcobello Perron
Purcell Gordon Yakupov
Hendricks Lander Klinkhammer

Nikitin Petry
Ference Schultz
Klefbom Fayne

Scrivens
Fasth

Remember too these are 14-15 versions of these players too so Klefbom or Petry are not as good as they are today. Jeff Petry was -25 that season.

12/20 of these players aren't even in the NHL anymore.