Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXVIII

[S E P H]

To get someone like ROR, Zadorov would absolutely be one of the piece(s) coming back.

Personally speaking, I would have absolutely zero interest in Myers.

Of course this is just my opinion.

 

[Matt Ress]

Girgensons seems like a good starting point.

Maybe too good of a starting point? ROR is a great all around player but, probably pricey, and in his last year, has also had well documented contract disputes with COL front office. Not saying COL has to move him but I'm sure it's crossed their collective minds.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don't see a reason to trade for defensive prospects since we have many. We either go for proven defenseman (or somebody young and ready like Despres/Gormley) or we get rw/lw prospects. Our D is bad but our defensive prospect pool is actually decent.

 

[Matt Ress]

Hmm. Makes sense.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Buffalo probably isn't a good trade partner. They've got a lot of good, young defensemen, but none of them have proven anything, and the Avs would need a proven guy in return. Myers could be that guy, but he's a real risky player to trade ROR for and we'd need something more in return.

 

[Freudian]

Maybe too good of a starting point? ROR is a great all around player but, probably pricey, and in his last year, has also had well documented contract disputes with COL front office. Not saying COL has to move him but I'm sure it's crossed their collective minds.

Not really. O'Reilly is a better player than Girgensons is by a fair margin.

It's not like Avs are going to toss O'Reilly away for Buffalo's fifth best defensive prospect just because O'Reilly might be hard to sign.

O'Reilly is signed for two years and isn't in his last year.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't see a reason to trade for defensive prospects since we have many. We either go for proven defenseman (or somebody young and ready like Despres/Gormley) or we get rw/lw prospects. Our D is bad but our defensive prospect pool is actually decent.

Precisely. I don't get why everyone wants to trade for guys like Gormley or Zadorov. The Avs need to parlay an ROR trade into immediate defensive help, not potentials.

And Buffalo ain't trading Zemgus. Not. Happening.

 

[Matt Ress]

Precisely. I don't get why everyone wants to trade for guys like Gormley or Zadorov. The Avs need to parlay an ROR trade into immediate defensive help, not potentials.

And Buffalo ain't trading Zemgus. Not. Happening.

This is true. He and Zadorov are the only two (+) players on the club which says quite a bit. Eh, maybe just not a good fit. You're probably looking for a "win now" fix while most of our moveable are future fixes.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Precisely. I don't get why everyone wants to trade for guys like Gormley or Zadorov. The Avs need to parlay an ROR trade into immediate defensive help, not potentials.

And Buffalo ain't trading Zemgus. Not. Happening.

That's exactly what my post suggested. Gormley however is NHL ready and has potential which is why excluded him and Despres. But you're absolutely right, no need for defensive prospects.

 

[Foppa2118]

McGinn isn't consistent enough for him to be a detrimental loss to this team. Especially since he is already making 3 million. The Avs could replace him through free agency. I like how he plays, but too many nights he isn't physical, and he isn't overly talented to make up for that.

He absolutely would be a detrimental loss if they don't replace him, especially given the uncertainty over O'Reilly. They don't know what kind of deal will ultimately be made with him, or whether they will lose him to UFA, which seems likely.

People underrate how hard it is to play physically every single night. This is what I get into with McLeod. It's extremely tough and taxing on your body both physically and mentally. He isn't always consistent in goal scoring or hard nosed physical play, but he does it enough IMO. You're never going to have all your top 9 guys be consistent every single night, that's why you need different guys to step up during the season, and McGinn does that.

Plus just look at the uncertainty over the top 9.

There's the core of

XX - Duchene - XX
Landy - MacKinnon - XX

You've got a 35 year old (tomorrow) Tanguay with one year left after this year, and has had multiple season ending knee injuries the last couple years. A 37 year old Iggy with two years left. And O'Reilly who seems very unlikely to be here after next year.

Then for the potential future 3rd line there's Mitchell who isn't an ideal 3rd line center on a cup team with two more years left after this year, an unproven prospect in Bleackley, and McGinn.

Then there's guys you don't really want playing above the 4th line if you don't have to. McLeod with three years left, and Talbot, Bordy, Cliche, and Winchester with one more year. Briere's deal ends this year and almost assuredly won't be back.

Then there's Everberg, and some other unproven guys consistently, who look solid but aren't some kind of world beaters offensively.

That's why losing a guy like McGinn could be dangerous, given his ability to play very well on the 3rd line and fit in well in spot duty in the top 6 scoring a consistent 20 goals a year, and playing a hard game. It's not like they have that many guys that play a hard nosed game in the top 9. Iggy and Landy both can play physically but they don't really play a rough and tumble style because the team wants them on the ice, not in the penalty box or injured.

He can definitely be traded, but they have to make sure to line up a replacement for him or O'Reilly's spot somehow. They can't just let him go and say they'll figure it out later. Adding good 2nd/3rd liners from other organizations via UFA is usually more expensive than you like.

Well no time like the present right?

And even while I love McG as well and think he will do well in a place like PIT, you have to pay to get. If he can return Despres then do it.
Its not like we are getting Martin in return. Its a young d man with better upside than a guy like Holden actually playing in the NHL on a regular basis.

I'm a fan of Everberg, but he's nowhere near the level of McGinn consistency wise, or talent wise. He just plays a simple meat and potatoes game, and will be the least skilled guy on a good 3rd line. McGinn would be one of the more skilled guys on a good 3rd line.

 

[S E P H]

Precisely. I don't get why everyone wants to trade for guys like Gormley or Zadorov. The Avs need to parlay an ROR trade into immediate defensive help, not potentials.

And Buffalo ain't trading Zemgus. Not. Happening.

Would I prefer an NHL proven talent? Absolutely, but sometimes you gotta make a trade knowing the player you will get will be great in the future. Rangers did this when they traded for an unknown McDonagh, and now he is as close to unavailable currently. Islander's Zdeno Chara who was an unknown player at the time to Ottawa for Yashin. A young talented Chris Pronger traded to the Blues for Shanahan.

Sometimes you have to put faith in your pro scouting team and rely on them. Currently they have done an amazing job to know that if we ever traded ROR or McGinn for a young unproven defenseman with potential on the verge of becoming an NHL player, they will get the benefit of the doubt from me. Now I am not a scout for any NHL team, but when it comes to Zadorov, I've seen enough of him to be shocked if he doesn't become a top 4 defenseman one day.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I agree with you completely Foppa ^

 

[ABasin]

He absolutely would be a detrimental loss if they don't replace him, especially given the uncertainty over O'Reilly. They don't know what kind of deal will ultimately be made with him, or whether they will lose him to UFA, which seems likely.

People underrate how hard it is to play physically every single night. This is what I get into with McLeod. It's extremely tough and taxing on your body both physically and mentally. He isn't always consistent in goal scoring or hard nosed physical play, but he does it enough IMO. You're never going to have all your top 9 guys be consistent every single night, that's why you need different guys to step up during the season, and McGinn does that.

Plus just look at the uncertainty over the top 9.

There's the core of

XX - Duchene - XX
Landy - MacKinnon - XX

You've got a 35 year old (tomorrow) Tanguay with one year left after this year, and has had multiple season ending knee injuries the last couple years. A 37 year old Iggy with two years left. And O'Reilly who seems very unlikely to be here after next year.

Then for the potential future 3rd line there's Mitchell who isn't an ideal 3rd line center on a cup team with two more years left after this year, an unproven prospect in Bleackley, and McGinn.

Then there's guys you don't really want playing above the 4th line if you don't have to. McLeod with three years left, and Talbot, Bordy, Cliche, and Winchester with one more year. Briere's deal ends this year and almost assuredly won't be back.

Then there's Everberg, and some other unproven guys consistently, who look solid but aren't some kind of world beaters offensively.

That's why losing a guy like McGinn could be dangerous, given his ability to play very well on the 3rd line and fit in well in spot duty in the top 6 scoring a consistent 20 goals a year, and playing a hard game. It's not like they have that many guys that play a hard nosed game in the top 9. Iggy and Landy both can play physically but they don't really play a rough and tumble style because the team wants them on the ice, not in the penalty box or injured.

He can definitely be traded, but they have to make sure to line up a replacement for him or O'Reilly's spot somehow. They can't just let him go and say they'll figure it out later. Adding good 2nd/3rd liners from other organizations via UFA is usually more expensive than you like.

If it meant really fixing the defense, I would have no problem whatsoever trading both O'Reilly and McGinn. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment, and I wouldn't look back even once.

Look, the Avs are going to have to 'rebuild' (or simply 'build', if you prefer) one area of their team. They look darn good at center and in goal moving forward, and are in pretty good shape at wing. The defense is a mess.

But, I'd way rather have to rebuild the wing position through FA/draft, than the defense. Waywaywayway rather. It'll be both cheaper and faster, IMO.

 

[Pokecheque]

Well, let's not get too crazy about McGinn. I think he should be traded, but probably not now. He's not a core piece going forward. He has better scoring upside than the guy he was traded for (Daniel Winnik) but defensively he's below-average at best. His scoring upside is obviously limited as well. You're not going to see him do much more than he has shown so far. He's pretty much peaked in value (maybe not right now) and is already making a decent amount of coin. That's an asset that you trade. But without a capable replacement, probably not a good idea right now, but I think in the offseason he'll be easier to replace than people think. In terms of versatility he's very good, but again, below-average defensively at best. It would be a serious loss if he were dealt and not replaced with a worthwhile role-player, but it would not be detrimental.

 

[shadow1]

McGinn has six points. Even if the Avalanche were to trade O'Reilly, his output would likely not increase; he's seen time on all three scoring lines this season. He is a glue player.

I would definitely be okay with trading both players for defensemen.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Look, the Avs are going to have to 'rebuild' (or simply 'build', if you prefer) one area of their team. They look darn good at center and in goal moving forward, and are in pretty good shape at wing. The defense is a mess.

As I believe it's Kento said we actually are decent in defensive prospects and have no wingers, which is the ironic part. We are not in good shape at wing beyond 2 years. I understand that getting wingers in are easier than it seems to be to get the unicorn that is a defenseman but it's still a matter of getting them and paying for them. I feel like these discussions all boil down to the certain viewpoints. Some people wee the team in the context of winning the next 2-3 years and some see it in a longer range.

I don't see that Buffalo would have any interest in an O'Reilly deal. They aren't trying to win anything now and in a few years they are going to need to start paying some of their young guys. Giving O'Reilly the contract he wants is going to be a significant expense. I'm not sure if he will straight up go to the highest bidder but I feel like a high profile team that likes to spend silly money like Philly or Toronto sound like more of a fit.

 

[Foppa2118]

McGinn has six points. Even if the Avalanche were to trade O'Reilly, his output would likely not increase; he's seen time on all three scoring lines this season. He is a glue player.

I would definitely be okay with trading both players for defensemen.

None of us have any way of knowing that. He's a streaky offensive player. It could easily go up.

If it meant really fixing the defense, I would have no problem whatsoever trading both O'Reilly and McGinn. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment, and I wouldn't look back even once.

Look, the Avs are going to have to 'rebuild' (or simply 'build', if you prefer) one area of their team. They look darn good at center and in goal moving forward, and are in pretty good shape at wing. The defense is a mess.

But, I'd way rather have to rebuild the wing position through FA/draft, than the defense. Waywaywayway rather. It'll be both cheaper and faster, IMO.

I agree to an extent. I wouldn't have a problem if it was a top notch D man and that was the only way it got done. I'm just saying they have to be smart about it because with O'Reilly such a big question mark, they'd be risking losing a lot of forward depth by moving McGinn. There's not enough quality forward prospects in the system right now, and it's asking too much to replace everyone via UFA and stay under the cap.

 

[shadow1]

None of us have any way of knowing that. He's a streaky offensive player. It could easily go up.

There's no way of knowing, but it's a safe assumption. He only has one point in the last eight games, some of which was playing with Duchene and O'Reilly.

 

[Foppa2118]

There's no way of knowing, but it's a safe assumption. He only has one point in the last eight games, some of which was playing with Duchene and O'Reilly.

It's not exactly like a roulette wheel that has the same odds on every spin. I'd say with that kind of streak, if anything there's a better chance he starts contributing. 1 point in 8 games is basically a 10 point season pace. He's not going to continue at that rate.

Like I said, he's streaky. He always has been with the Avs. He started off hot this year, and then cooled off a lot offensively. He'll get back in the scoring column at some point.

 

[shadow1]

It's not exactly like a roulette wheel that has the same odds on every spin. I'd say with that kind of streak, if anything there's a better chance he starts contributing. 1 point in 8 games is basically a 10 point season pace. He's not going to continue at that rate.

Like I said, he's streaky. He always has been with the Avs. He started off hot this year, and then cooled off a lot offensively. He'll get back in the scoring column at some point.

Exactly. On an average season, he will end up around 35-40 points, no matter who he is playing with. Which is why Colorado shouldn't be afraid of dealing him for fear of needing a cushion for a potential O'Reilly trade.

 

[Freudian]

McGinn is realistically a 20g 15a type of player. He's not that far off that pace.

All of Avs wingers have struggled getting into shooting positions (or getting the puck when they're in them). McGinn, Landeskog, Iginla and O'Reilly need to provide more high quality shots for the team.

 

[Matt Ress]

As I believe it's Kento said we actually are decent in defensive prospects and have no wingers, which is the ironic part. We are not in good shape at wing beyond 2 years. I understand that getting wingers in are easier than it seems to be to get the unicorn that is a defenseman but it's still a matter of getting them and paying for them. I feel like these discussions all boil down to the certain viewpoints. Some people wee the team in the context of winning the next 2-3 years and some see it in a longer range.

I don't see that Buffalo would have any interest in an O'Reilly deal. They aren't trying to win anything now and in a few years they are going to need to start paying some of their young guys. Giving O'Reilly the contract he wants is going to be a significant expense. I'm not sure if he will straight up go to the highest bidder but I feel like a high profile team that likes to spend silly money like Philly or Toronto sound like more of a fit.

Well, we've discussed the cap as well regarding a ROR acquisition and frankly, it's not an issue. Some guy's around here are actually worried about getting to the floor next year especially if young guys are forcing their way onto the Big Club. Also, Terry Pegula is a multi billionaire so there's that. The long term effects though, are certainly debatable. Maybe the Sabres are exactly what the Lanche could use; highly touted forward prospects of which we are stacked. Some of those guys could probably step in this year or next and make an immediate impact offensively, or simmer for a year or two ie. Grigorenko, Armia, Justin Bailey, Nic Baptiste, Hudson Fasching... Not to mention draft picks up the wazoo. Just sayin.

 

[Foppa2118]

Exactly. On an average season, he will end up around 35-40 points, no matter who he is playing with. Which is why Colorado shouldn't be afraid of dealing him for fear of needing a cushion for a potential O'Reilly trade.

I'm not sure I'm following your logic here, but I'm not exactly sure what you're saying either.

We agree on the final point output, but the 1 point in 8 games thing threw me off. He's going to improve on that pace, but I guess maybe you were saying it's unlikely he improves on that 35-40 point final output we usually see?

Either way, doesn't it make sense though that losing McGinn without replacing him makes losing O'Reilly without replacing him even worse? Now you're faced with trying to replace both via UFA.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I'm not sure I'm following your logic here, but I'm not exactly sure what you're saying either.

We agree on the final point output, but the 1 point in 8 games thing threw me off. He's going to improve on that pace, but I guess maybe you were saying it's unlikely he improves on that 35-40 point final output we usually see?

Either way, doesn't it make sense though that losing McGinn without replacing him makes losing O'Reilly without replacing him even worse? Now you're faced with trying to replace both via UFA.

35-40 point players are not that hard to find in UFA. not so hard that if an offer came in for say mcginn + for martin or something similar, i'm not saying no to that.

ROR definitely is hard to replace.

 

[agentblack]

Seems like word on the street is Martin is MIN bound so im not sure id want to trade McGinn for him straight up just for a couple of months.
The primary target for me is Despres and depending on how badly they would like McGinn maybe you pry away a 2nd also.