In Chevy We Trust

[surixon]

Well I think we have a couple of things now in place that you need to contend for a cup.

We have a top 3 goalie
We have elite center talent and depth

Add in a real diverse crop of wingers and our forward core is great.

The only real issue is the defense still but we have seen signs that Morrissey is back playing like he can and him and Schmidt are trending towards being a very effective puck moving and offensive minded pairing.

Stanley and DeMelo provide good value as a more defensive minded third pairing.

Really we just need the Pionk and Dillion pairing to really figure things out.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

JK said that he would have given a lot to move up from third to second to get Laine.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Morrissey is making $6.25M AAV, Schmidt is at $5.95M.

Very close, in the grand scheme of "$millionaires".

 

[TommyKillian]

View attachment 477116


JK said that he would have given a lot to move up from third to second to get Laine.

I guess the question we are trying to answer is: what does "a lot" mean to Jarmo? And is it worth the extra 100 points Laine scored over that period, our WCF appearance, and the extra RFA years we got by doing the trade several years after the draft (balanced against the loss of Roslovic the Enigma)?

Obviously, if "a lot" means Werenski (which seems doubtful), then Chevy should have done it. If "a lot" is a couple draft picks or a less valuable vet then Chevy was right to wait. If Jarmo wasn't willing to make the trade one-for-one in the summer of 2019, it makes you wonder how much he truly coveted Laine. It seems to me like he is trying to present himself like a genius after the fact. I think most commentators of any repute agreed that at the time of the trade PLD was the more valuable player.

It's all speculation, which is why basing it on what we do know is the best we can do, and what we do know suggests Chevy got the best value out of waiting to make the trade.

 

[TommyKillian]

Well I think we have a couple of things now in place thay you need to contend for a cup.

We have a top 3 goalie
We have elite center talent and depth

Add in a real diverse crop of wingers and our forward core is great.

The only real issue is the defense still but we have seen signs that Morrissey is back playing like he can and him and Schmidt are trending towards being a very effective puck moving and offensive minded pairing.

Stanley and DeMelo provide good value as a more defensive minded third pairing.

Really we just need the Pionk and Dillion pairing to really figure things out.

I know people bristle often when intangibles are mentioned, but, in addition to what you have identified, it also seems like this team has a great locker room. I thought it was interesting that Wheeler or Stastny (can't remember which) admitted to talking with each other last year about how great of an impact Schmidt would have on the locker room. And now he is there.

Comrie has also been mentioned as being a great teammate before. While on ice ability is obviously the most important thing, having a tight-knit room can give teams that extra element of confidence and belief that is so crucial during difficult stretches of the year and the playoffs.

 

[libertarian]

Really we just need the Pionk and Dillion pairing to really figure things out.

If they do and Pionk especially gets back to last years level of play or better then that alone should take the Jets to another level.

Scheifele and Wheeler becoming permeant 5/5 PLUS player would also help big time.

 

[GCn07]

Chevy has built a team that made a deep run into the playoffs, is highly entertaining, and looks like the future is bright in a market that not many players want to be in. I'd say he has done an excellent job so far. If anyone thinks that Winnipeg isn't at a huge disadvantage in it's ability to build their team they are smoking crack. Chevy has done excellent. Could he have done better? I'm not sure anyone could have really. Winnipeg has no chance at being a destination team. It is a draft and develop team and it's pretty tough to look at our draft record and say it hasn't been top notch.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I guess the question we are trying to answer is: what does "a lot" mean to Jarmo? And is it worth the extra 100 points Laine scored over that period, our WCF appearance, and the extra RFA years we got by doing the trade several years after the draft (balanced against the loss of Roslovic the Enigma)?

Obviously, if "a lot" means Werenski (which seems doubtful), then Chevy should have done it. If "a lot" is a couple draft picks or a less valuable vet then Chevy was right to wait. If Jarmo wasn't willing to make the trade one-for-one in the summer of 2019, it makes you wonder how much he truly coveted Laine. It seems to me like he is trying to present himself like a genius after the fact. I think most commentators of any repute agreed that at the time of the trade PLD was the more valuable player.

It's all speculation, which is why basing it on what we do know is the best we can do, and what we do know suggests Chevy got the best value out of waiting to make the trade.

I agree that Laine was the right choice by Chevy at the time.

The only reason I am posting this is because someone said that JK never offered anything to trade up for Laine. He did. I saw an interview where he said so, but can't find that exact interview. But I have found a few sources that confirm what he said.

In fact, the only reason I posted this whole line of discussion in the first place was this thread had gotten pretty boring and I was trying to incite some interesting back and forth conversation about something fun and interesting - what if scenarios about stuff that happened years ago.

 

[TommyKillian]

I agree that Laine was the right choice by Chevy at the time.

The only reason I am posting this is because someone said that JK never offered anything to trade up for Laine. He did. I saw an interview where he said so, but can't find that exact interview. But I have found a few sources that confirm what he said.

In fact, the only reason I posted this whole line of discussion in the first place was this thread had gotten pretty boring and I was trying to incite some interesting back and forth conversation about something fun and interesting - what if scenarios about stuff that happened years ago.

Haha for sure! I remember hearing Jarmo say that too. It just sounded self-serving to me at the time. I'd love to know what could have been.

I really wish GMs were in the practice of releasing memoirs of their time working for each team, giving explicit details about trade proposals and draft day debates. Chevy has been involved in enough blockbuster trades and draft day reaches that I think his would be fascinating... not to mention the fact he was involved in the relocation of a franchise.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Haha for sure! I remember hearing Jarmo say that too. It just sounded self-serving to me at the time. I'd love to know what could have been.

I really wish GMs were in the practice of releasing memoirs of their time working for each team, giving explicit details about trade proposals and draft day debates. Chevy has been involved in enough blockbuster trades and draft day reaches that I think his would be fascinating... not to mention the fact he was involved in the relocation of a franchise.

What?!!! No, he wasn't. Not in any way, shape or form. He was hired after the franchise came to Winnipeg. He was hired to take over an existing team cause the previous GM got the boot, like pretty much every GM who has ever been hired, expansion franchise GM's being the exception. Where the team was before is immaterial.

 

[FonRiesen]

What?!!! No, he wasn't. Not in any way, shape or form. He was hired after the franchise came to Winnipeg. He was hired to take over an existing team cause the previous GM got the boot, like pretty much every GM who has ever been hired, expansion franchise GM's being the exception. Where the team was before is immaterial.

I think @TommyKillian is saying that it would be fascinating to get Chevy's behind the scenes perspective on creating a new culture in a new town for the existing players, with a unique fanbase who was eager for the return of NHL hockey.

Yeah, GM's in general have some similar situations when they get hired, and maybe each one has a unique twist. Chevy's story just happens to be closer to our hearts, I think.

IIRC he joined after the franchise was officialy sold and moved on paper, but wasn't he involved with/privy to things like changing names, dealing with vets who may or may not have wanted to move, etc? Could be interesting.

 

[cbcwpg]

May 20, 2011 - Atlanta sold to TNSE agreement in principle
May 31, 2011 - Official sold announcement

June 5, 2011 - TNSE confirms they will be terminating Rick Dudley ( Atlanta GM )

June 8, 2011 - Chevy hired as Jets GM

June 8 ,2011 - NHL GMs meeting

Given the fact that it was only a couple of weeks between the "agreement" to buy the team and Chevy getting hired, I would imaging TNSE had been talking to Chevy for a while about the potential of coming to Winnipeg if the team was actually purchased. I don't think for one second that TNSE bought the team and then went.. " Hey, we need a new GM because we don't like the current one ". So they would have been talking before the sale, and TNSE would have figured out that Chevy was their guy, etc.

But , IMO, Chevy would have had nothing to do with any players or anything else until after June 8,2011. The team still had a GM until June 5, 2011.

 

[TommyKillian]

I think @TommyKillian is saying that it would be fascinating to get Chevy's behind the scenes perspective on creating a new culture in a new town for the existing players, with a unique fanbase who was eager for the return of NHL hockey.

Yeah, GM's in general have some similar situations when they get hired, and maybe each one has a unique twist. Chevy's story just happens to be closer to our hearts, I think.

IIRC he joined after the franchise was officialy sold and moved on paper, but wasn't he involved with/privy to things like changing names, dealing with vets who may or may not have wanted to move, etc? Could be interesting.

That's exactly what I was thinking. It certainly seems to me that a franchise getting a new owner and GM within a few weeks of each other would create an array of issues that few replacement GMs would have to consider. The culture question is a big one, particularly with regards to draft philosophy. I recall reading that the Jets kept much of the Thrashers' scouting staff in place, including Marcel Comeau (the director of amateur scouting), yet seem to have out-drafted the Thrashers by a significant margin since relocation. TNSE obviously added scouts as well, but that can't explain the entire improvement.

It seemed that from the outset TNSE had a long-term vision for the franchise, with respect to taking time to rebuild, and then becoming a consistent playoff team. I wonder how involved Chevy was with making those types of projections and what models they looked at for success. Getting Scheifele with the first draft pick seems like an amazing stroke of luck in retrospect. I can't imagine they planned on getting a perennial all-star 1C that easily. Regardless, it seems like so much of what has transpired over the last decade has been deliberate, and I wonder how much you can actually plan for in that way.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I wonder how involved Chevy was with making those types of projections and what models they looked at for success.

Chipman: OK, here's how we're going to run things...

Chipman: You good with that?

 

[thai jet]

Chevy has built a team that made a deep run into the playoffs, is highly entertaining, and looks like the future is bright in a market that not many players want to be in. I'd say he has done an excellent job so far. If anyone thinks that Winnipeg isn't at a huge disadvantage in it's ability to build their team they are smoking crack. Chevy has done excellent. Could he have done better? I'm not sure anyone could have really. Winnipeg has no chance at being a destination team. It is a draft and develop team and it's pretty tough to look at our draft record and say it hasn't been top notch.

I believe Chevy is now the longest tenured GM not having won the Cup. Pro sports is a result oriented business and he needs to produce a Cup soon or be on the clock.

 

[Channelcat]

I believe Chevy is now the longest tenured GM not having won the Cup. Pro sports is a result oriented business and he needs to produce a Cup soon or be on the clock.

Nothing wrong with the rosters we've had here. Ten years of underperforming special teams and structure....that's coaching.

 

[KingBogo]

Nothing wrong with the rosters we've had here. Ten years of underperforming special teams and structure....that's coaching.

You seem to be forgetting who we had playing defence for us the last 2 seasons. Scotty Bowman with his assistant Al Arbor wouldn’t win those groups of AHL tweeners. As much as I am a Chevy fan he has only assembled a team talented enough to contend twice. 2017-18 and 2018-19. Jury is still out on this season.

 

[ps241]

You seem to be forgetting who we had playing defence for us the last 2 seasons. Scotty Bowman with his assistant Al Arbor wouldn’t win those groups of AHL tweeners. As much as I am a Chevy fan he has only assembled a team talented enough to contend twice. 2017-18 and 2018-19. Jury is still out on this season.

Context is important too.

Chevy inherited an Atlanta team who had bottomed out and drafted 3rd overall Bogosia, 4th overall Kane, and 8th overall Burmistrov. The team itself was not at a playoff level and that young core of 3 draft picks as a group underachieved.

Chevy had to construct the empty prospect cupboard one board at a time and he did a good job shaping a contender out of that early mess. The challenge was that the true window very small.

Buff cost us one season. Chevy owns last season. I like what he has assembled this season but we’ll see how it comes together.

I think Chevy is a slightly above average GM and he suits our small market. He may be too loyal to his coach but I will need to see how this season plays out.

 

[KingBogo]

Context is important too.

Chevy inherited an Atlanta team who had bottomed out and drafted 3rd overall Bogosia, 4th overall Kane, and 8th overall Burmistrov. The team itself was not at a playoff level and that young core of 3 draft picks as a group underachieved.

Chevy had to construct the empty prospect cupboard one brick at a time and he did a good job shaping a contender out of that early mess. The challenge was that the true window very small.

Buff cost us one season. Chevy owns last season. I like what he has assembled this season but we’ll see how it comes together.

I think Chevy is an above average GM and he suits our small market. He may be too loyal to his coach but I will need to see how this season plays out.

I don't disagree at all and that's why I said I was a Chevy fan. I think overall he has done a very good job. I was mostly responding to the implication that we had a team capable of winning the whole time Chevy was at the helm, which isn't true. As you said, we inherited a very poorly constructed team from Atlanta with an empty prospect cupboard. This took several seasons to fix and we had some pretty mediocre teams through those years. And Chevy has been thrown a few curve balls along the way which Chevy handled well (Buff situation).

But this doesn't change the fact we were only capable of climbing the playoff mountain for 2 seasons. 2017-18 when we made it to the conference finals, and 2018-19 where we imploded with seemingly some sort of locker room issue. Those were followed by 2 years of a terrible backend that had no real hope of contending. I'm hopeful Chevy has again assembled a team capable of contending this season. But for me the jury is still out on that one.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Context is important too.

Chevy inherited an Atlanta team who had bottomed out and drafted 3rd overall Bogosia, 4th overall Kane, and 8th overall Burmistrov. The team itself was not at a playoff level and that young core of 3 draft picks as a group underachieved.

Chevy had to construct the empty prospect cupboard one board at a time and he did a good job shaping a contender out of that early mess. The challenge was that the true window very small.

Buff cost us one season. Chevy owns last season. I like what he has assembled this season but we’ll see how it comes together.

I think Chevy is a slightly above average GM and he suits our small market. He may be too loyal to his coach but I will need to see how this season plays out.

Your second and third paragraphs would lift Chevy much higher than "slightly above average" in my opinion. Add to that the team-friendly contracts he has managed to finagle with his core group, the success at the draft table and his ability to wring every last drop of potential out of trades and free agency despite Winnipeg being on any players' no-trade list who has a no-trade list (that fact is lost on many), and I'd put him near the top.

 

[ps241]

I don't disagree at all and that's why I said I was a Chevy fan. I think overall he has done a very good job. I was mostly responding to the implication that we had a team capable of winning the whole time Chevy was at the helm, which isn't true. As you said, we inherited a very poorly constructed team from Atlanta with an empty prospect cupboard. This took several seasons to fix and we had some pretty mediocre teams through those years. And Chevy has been thrown a few curve balls along the way which Chevy handled well (Buff situation).

But this doesn't change the fact we were only capable of climbing the playoff mountain for 2 seasons. 2017-18 when we made it to the conference finals, and 2018-19 where we imploded with seemingly some sort of locker room issue. Those were followed by 2 years of a terrible backend that had no real hope of contending. I'm hopeful Chevy has again assembled a team capable of contending this season. But for me the jury is still out on that one.

yea it’s interesting the Buff exit was a death blow short term.

This may come across as being a defeatist or negative but I think winning it all in Winnipeg is a long shot. The fact Chevy built a true contender once is what I use as my basis for my opinion that he is still the right guy for this GM spot.

I think the degree of difficulty in building a contender in Canada, in a little fish bowl that is near the top of no trade lists makes the results achieved to date impressive especially factoring in the starting kit.

32 team league so winning a cup is highly unlikely here but I love being part of the NHL and I think our GM gives us a better shot at beating the long odds.

 

[DannyGallivan]

yea it’s interesting the Buff exit was a death blow short term.

This may come across as being a defeatist or negative but I think winning it all in Winnipeg is a long shot. The fact Chevy built a true contender once is what I use as my basis for my opinion that he is still the right guy for this GM spot.

I think the degree of difficulty in building a contender in Canada, in a little fish bowl that is near the top of no trade lists makes the results achieved to date impressive especially factoring in the starting kit.

32 team league so winning a cup is highly unlikely here but I love being part of the NHL and I think our GM gives us a better shot at beating the long odds.

I've always thought that the salary cap (despite it being all in American dollars) is an over-simplified formula and there are still massive inequities between cities. Canadian-based cities simply tax their players way more than a lot of (all?) American-based cities. A truly equitable formula would at least attempt to balance cost of living, taxes, cost of housing, etc. a little more fairly.

 

[KingBogo]

yea it’s interesting the Buff exit was a death blow short term.

This may come across as being a defeatist or negative but I think winning it all in Winnipeg is a long shot. The fact Chevy built a true contender once is what I use as my basis for my opinion that he is still the right guy for this GM spot.

I think the degree of difficulty in building a contender in Canada, in a little fish bowl that is near the top of no trade lists makes the results achieved to date impressive especially factoring in the starting kit.

32 team league so winning a cup is highly unlikely here but I love being part of the NHL and I think our GM gives us a better shot at beating the long odds.

Winning it all is always a long shot, but all you need is that 1 magical run where it all comes together. I'm happy if we enter the playoffs with a punchers chance. At least in the short term we have a goalie capable of pulling it off. And I do like the moves Chevy made this last off season to shore up the defense. It was a glaring hole that desperately needed fixing.

 

[ps241]

Winning it all is always a long shot, but all you need is that 1 magical run where it all comes together. I'm happy if we enter the playoffs with a punchers chance. At least in the short term we have a goalie capable of pulling it off. And I do like the moves Chevy made this last off season to shore up the defense. It was a glaring hole that desperately needed fixing.

yea teams like Washington and St. Louis are good examples of teams that always struggled in the playoffs but hung around long enough that they captured lightning in a bottle one spring finally.

 

[surixon]

yea teams like Washington and St. Louis are good examples of teams that always struggled in the playoffs but hung around long enough that they captured lightning in a bottle one spring finally.

We just need to have a good team entering and hope luck is on our side on of these years. Given we are the smallest and least desirable market we have had some good playoff success.