I was going to give a big breakdown, but it comes down to two words: Alex Pietrangelo

[Faltorvo]

Can everyone stop with the "let's give/trade for a huge expensive contract to a defenseman over 30?" bullshit already? Handing out expensive long-term contracts to guys over 30 has been the ultimate downfall of every Leaf team I've ever watched, and trading guys away just to free up the money to sign Peterangelo? You're praying he doesn't drop off for that contract... And they generally always do.

nothing wrong with stud 30 year old players

if you don't think big changes are not coming,,well,,lol have fun with that

 

[Antropovsky]

If a defenseman can average 25 minutes why cant players?

stack your top six, stack your top 4.... and play them 25-30 per night! F it.... want to play different then other successful teams? might as go all in.

Fill the bottom six and two with lower priced players.

I mean this in a half sarcastic tone. I dont even know when im sarcastic or not anymore. Who cares...

 

[Faltorvo]

hopefully, Leafs need functional toughness, not a aging vet who get 4 minutes a game.

no ,,,,,,what needs to change is our definition of "functional" 4th liners

i don't care at all, at all if they score,,they need to be able to change the tone of a game

disrupt/pss off the other team

inflict pain,,make them hear footsteps near the boards

land on a few tenders//run a few tenders//

 

[rumman]

no ,,,,,,what needs to change is our definition of "functional" 4th liners

i don't care at all, at all if they score,,they need to be able to change the tone of a game

disrupt/pss off the other team

inflict pain,,make them hear footsteps near the boards

land on a few tenders//run a few tenders//

and be able to play more than 4 minutes without being a liability.............

 

[Faltorvo]

Unless the price of free agents craters because of Covid I don’t see how we can afford him unless we aggressively pitch everything overboard.

Speaking of cheap options, Bogosian looks respectable for Tampa Bay. As much as he has struggled in Buffalo lately he does look like a credible NHL defenseman which some of our guys did not.

stop with the hyperbolic BS please.

Bogo at 1.3m with Muzz,,,hrmmm i don't mind that at all.

 

[Faltorvo]

and be able to play more than 4 minutes without being a liability.............

hrmm ok i'll take Corey Perry for 1.3m ish

 

[Lightsol]

Age is over blown. This is not a 5 years, heck a 3 years from now team. This is a win now team.

No it isn't. This is the problem; the team hasn't managed to win a playoff round yet, and people keep insisting they have to make decisions like they're a Cup contender. Decisions like this SHORTEN WINDOWS, and you'd think fans of the Toronto Maple Leafs of all teams would know that, considering both the Gilmour and the Sundin/Roberts/Nieuwendyk Leaf teams ended up being shortened by idiotic decisions like this.

nothing wrong with stud 30 year old players

if you don't think big changes are not coming,,well,,lol have fun with that

I don't see where I said any of that. However, you're not signing a "stud 30 year old player", you're signing a guy who has been great so far, on the assumption that it would continue. And for every guy it works for, there are 5 or 6 guys who end up locked in on terrible contracts long term, leading to even MORE bad decisions. Again, you would think fans of the Leafs would f***ing know that, since we've lived it. Multiple times.

And trading multiple under 25 players to sign a 31 year old to a big contract? That's the shit that lead to our f***ing post-cap playoff drought...

 

[Stephen]

stop with the hyperbolic BS please.

Bogo at 1.3m with Muzz,,,hrmmm i don't mind that at all.

How would you fit in any of Pietrangelo’s money?

But yeah Bogosian looks completely fine in Tampa Bay. Not sure what his major malfunction was in Buffalo, but he’s always had the skillset. And he kinda looks like a RHD version of Muzzin.

 

[Gabriel426]

No it isn't. This is the problem; the team hasn't managed to win a playoff round yet, and people keep insisting they have to make decisions like they're a Cup contender. Decisions like this SHORTEN WINDOWS, and you'd think fans of the Toronto Maple Leafs of all teams would know that, considering both the Gilmour and the Sundin/Roberts/Nieuwendyk Leaf teams ended up being shortened by idiotic decisions like this.



I don't see where I said any of that. However, you're not signing a "stud 30 year old player", you're signing a guy who has been great so far, on the assumption that it would continue. And for every guy it works for, there are 5 or 6 guys who end up locked in on terrible contracts long term, leading to even MORE bad decisions. Again, you would think fans of the Leafs would f***ing know that, since we've lived it. Multiple times.

And trading multiple under 25 players to sign a 31 year old to a big contract? That's the shit that lead to our f***ing post-cap playoff drought...

The fact that you got 3 10mil plus players on your roster is a pretty clear indication your team is in win now mode.
1. It shows your team got talents if not why have three of the top 10 salaries in the league.
2. Salaries might not reflect on players skill but it is an indication, having three of the top 30-40players in the league should means the team is in capable of winning now instead of 5 yrs down the line.
3. Having someone like Pietra, baring injuries, he should still be at his level for the next 3-5yrs. Are you saying the Leafs are rebuilding the next 3-5 yrs?

 

[Faltorvo]

No it isn't. This is the problem; the team hasn't managed to win a playoff round yet, and people keep insisting they have to make decisions like they're a Cup contender. Decisions like this SHORTEN WINDOWS, and you'd think fans of the Toronto Maple Leafs of all teams would know that, considering both the Gilmour and the Sundin/Roberts/Nieuwendyk Leaf teams ended up being shortened by idiotic decisions like this.



I don't see where I said any of that. However, you're not signing a "stud 30 year old player", you're signing a guy who has been great so far, on the assumption that it would continue. And for every guy it works for, there are 5 or 6 guys who end up locked in on terrible contracts long term, leading to even MORE bad decisions. Again, you would think fans of the Leafs would f***ing know that, since we've lived it. Multiple times.

And trading multiple under 25 players to sign a 31 year old to a big contract? That's the shit that lead to our f***ing post-cap playoff drought...

Pietro is a stud 30 year old player,,,hell, hes practically the first Dmans name out of everyone mouth when a "build Canada's Olympic team"fantasy thread is started

and again,,the "young guys" traded away are NOT for him,,they will be for other assets,,maybe even younger then what we traded away.

ship out Nylander and Kerfoot,,,that covers APs cap hit
fill their skill spots with soup and Robertson

and restock the cupboards with the assets from Nylander and Kerfoot.

looks like a solid plan to me

 

[axlrose87]

Deal Marner for a boatload of futures. Sign Pietrangelo.

Or deal marner to a team who is willing to sign and retain on pietrangelo. Would love to have him at a reasonable cap number.

 

[Menzinger]

Pietro is a stud 30 year old player,,,hell, hes practically the first Dmans name out of everyone mouth when a "build Canada's Olympic team"fantasy thread is started

and again,,the "young guys" traded away are NOT for him,,they will be for other assets,,maybe even younger then what we traded away.

ship out Nylander and Kerfoot,,,that covers APs cap hit
fill their skill spots with soup and Robertson

and restock the cupboards with the assets from Nylander and Kerfoot.

looks like a solid plan to me

You'd probably have to move out more than Nylander and Kerfoot, because you'd also have to cover their replacement players (even assuming it's two league minimum contracts)

Bringing in Petro likely means the team would need to move out closer to 11-12 million in salary to accommodate it

 

[Faltorvo]

How would you fit in any of Pietrangelo’s money?

But yeah Bogosian looks completely fine in Tampa Bay. Not sure what his major malfunction was in Buffalo, but he’s always had the skillset. And he kinda looks like a RHD version of Muzzin.

well you said "aggressively pitch everything overboard."

Nylander and Kerfoot = 10.4m cap hit ,,engvall 3c ,soup or robert fill top 6

Kerfoot/Johnsson/Kappy=10.1m cap ,,promote engvall 3c,,,,,robertson,soup,,top 6

Marner =11m cap,,,soup or robert fill top 6

3 options right there

 

[Nylanderthal]

screw kerfoot
he is the exact kind of player we need to root out "supposed skill" that is tiny,,plays tiny , offers literally no intangibles if this "supposed skill" gets nothing done.

..... you didn’t spend a lot of time watching him at 3C did you? He’s an awful top 6w, but is pretty effective at C.

 

[Faltorvo]

..... you didn’t spend a lot of time watching him at 3C did you? He’s an awful top 6w, but is pretty effective at C.

8 goals 25 est points

that's your level to be called "pretty effective"? 3.5m cap hit,,,

see my "pretty effective"

is a 4.5m cap hit and a 30g,60 point 3C.

 

[Leafsfan74]

The fact that you got 3 10mil plus players on your roster is a pretty clear indication your team is in win now mode.
1. It shows your team got talents if not why have three of the top 10 salaries in the league.
2. Salaries might not reflect on players skill but it is an indication, having three of the top 30-40players in the league should means the team is in capable of winning now instead of 5 yrs down the line.
3. Having someone like Pietra, baring injuries, he should still be at his level for the next 3-5yrs. Are you saying the Leafs are rebuilding the next 3-5 yrs?

Also, once you sign those big contracts, as I said immediately after, "we are going to live and die by their ability to get it done, to find the will to win". It's been four years. You can't keep yourself handcuffed for 3 more spinning on the same wheel hoping one day they just turn the corner dramatically.

I'm not saying it can't be done with the right tinkering, but other teams know how to handle them. The back end is desperately light and the cap isn't moving. They need a big acquisition/trade and it won't be for more scoring, so why not get the absolute best available?

They need balance up front. This means less glitz on 3rd and 4th line, more grind, cycle and shutdown. It's cheaper, but you can find good value if you look hard enough. That won't be as difficult a task hopefully. Many of the parts already here.

In all the years of Leafs playoff success (years ago now), they did so with top notch D. Number One defenseman are rare, not every team has one. They come available as UFA's, you have to look at them if you need one. Especially for a young team looking for strong, stable leadership, such as Muzzin brought.

One of Marner or Nylander should go to make space if they can sign Alex. I say Kappy with a reasonable contract could do well with some board battling teammates and be part of a 3rd line. You then make it up as you must, but having half your D above average to top of league class, makes life much easier.

One thing is clear. This isn't 2016, they have had a chance to show they can get it done, with different players, coaches and supporting cast. Eventually it's time to say, "hey, someone needs talented, speedy young point getters, we've got them." Whether to pick up A.P (my preference) or try something less certain, we need the best D possible.

Get the #1 D man. Build from that massaged core for the next 3-4 years. That's the ultimate window, because the cap isn't moving. Get the best player available and move one that hasn't worked as planned.

 

[HellasLEAF]

AP would literally be the perfect player for us. Exactly what we need and what we are looking for. Could really catapult the team.

Where do we sign??

 

[Stephen]

..... you didn’t spend a lot of time watching him at 3C did you? He’s an awful top 6w, but is pretty effective at C.

I wouldn't say Kerfoot is that "effective." Nice looking skills and speed usually not put to any use that impacts the outcome of a game.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I wouldn't say Kerfoot is that "effective." Nice looking skills and speed usually not put to any use that impacts the outcome of a game.

Not skilled enough to be a top 6 player, not physically built enough to be an effective grinder.

He's more useful on a team that already has size physicality in their bottom 6 and he can use his shiftiness and skill to create offense.

Was never that keen on him to start with in terms of his fit on the roster and I wouldn't be upset to see him go.

 

[Menzinger]

Kerfoot looked good on the PK that series and did quietly put up 3 points in those 5 games.

I'd have no issue if they want to move on from him though but I think he can be a useful player

 

[Stephen]

Not skilled enough to be a top 6 player, not physically built enough to be an effective grinder.

He's more useful on a team that already has size physicality in their bottom 6 and he can use his shiftiness and skill to create offense.

Was never that keen on him to start with in terms of his fit on the roster and I wouldn't be upset to see him go.

I thought he would be an easy cap casualty before he got here. Then he looked surprisingly good for the first couple of months, then confirmed my original suspicions.

I think it would be a great start if we could turn all three of Kapanen, Johnsson and Kerfoot into guys who are just more difficult to play against and have that cockiness and snarl to their games.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I thought he would be an easy cap casualty before he got here. Then he looked surprisingly good for the first couple of months, then confirmed my original suspicions.

I think it would be a great start if we could turn all three of Kapanen, Johnsson and Kerfoot into guys who are just more difficult to play against and have that cockiness and snarl to their games.

Johnsson is an agitator himself, he had a poor season, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him rebound. He isn't afraid to be gritty or get into the mix. The only thing he doesn't have is over whelming size.

Kapanen is also being more physical, and again a subpar season, he left more to be desired this playoff. Not a typical grinder but he does mix it up now and then.

I'm not super attached to these guys if an upgrade is there, I just think they're being overlooked as quality pieces a bit.

 

[Stephen]

Johnsson is an agitator himself, he had a poor season, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him rebound. He isn't afraid to be gritty or get into the mix. The only thing he doesn't have is over whelming size.

Kapanen is also being more physical, and again a subpar season, he left more to be desired this playoff. Not a typical grinder but he does mix it up now and then.

I'm not super attached to these guys if an upgrade is there, I just think they're being overlooked as quality pieces a bit.

I think I'm at the point where I want the group to have more "natural born killers" and not guys who can pretend to be.

 

[Gabriel426]

Kerfoot looked good on the PK that series and did quietly put up 3 points in those 5 games.

I'd have no issue if they want to move on from him though but I think he can be a useful player

By no means he is a cap dump and sucks. It depends on the package. I think Kerfoot can land a pretty solid mid pairing Defensive Dman who won't put up points. I can see a straight up deal Kerfoot for Larsson. Barring a miracle, Larsson won't resign with the Oilers. It is a good hockey trade

 

[i1]

Leafs will have 7.5 after Barrie and Ceci walk; if one of the Big 4 moves out for someone cheaper I could see it.

Pietrangelo
Rielly
Muzzin
Dermott
Holl
Sandin
Liljegren
Marincin

Still thin but much better