I was going to give a big breakdown, but it comes down to two words: Alex Pietrangelo

[Golden_Jet]

Another issue I see, with the flat cap and no idea when fans are allowed back in building, teams are going to have internal caps, as they are struggling for cash.

 

[ACC1224]

Hindsight.... But should have done that rumoured Nylander for Pietrangelo deal in 2018 if that was ever on the table. His defence would have made a difference with better success, than keeping Nylander.

That doesn’t sound legit.

 

[Faltorvo]

Time to build around the centers and the defence.

________ Matthews ________
Robertson Tavares Hyman
Mikheyev Kerfoot ________
Clifford Engvall _______
Spezza

Rielly Pietrangelo
Muzzin Manson
Dermott Holl
Sandin Liljegren

Andersen
Campbell

You telling me this team doesn't have enough wingers to still be a scoring threat and make a deal for Manson on a rebuilding team?

Marner Nylander Johnsson Kapanen Gauthier Korshkov Barabanov Bracco Brooks Malgin Petan Agostino .

Dubas has no excuse.

screw kerfoot
he is the exact kind of player we need to root out "supposed skill" that is tiny,,plays tiny , offers literally no intangibles if this "supposed skill" gets nothing done.

 

[Menzinger]

If he'd be willing to sign the team should strongly consider it, but it would have a lot bigger ramifications for the team than some think.

Firstly, folks I think underestimate how much he'd cost. He's the first true 1D to hit free agency since Suter which was 8 years ago. I don't think he signs for less than 10 mil aav.

Which means that potentially one of Matthews, Marner or Tavares have to be moved. Or Nylander and Kapanen (or even Rielly if he could be turned Info a cheaper D man) or Nylander/Kapanen/Andersen ect. But I have a hard time seeing in a flat cap world a team keeping Four 10-11 mil guys on a team

 

[hockeyes]

This has to be the Leafiest thread yet.

 

[Gabriel426]

oh i know

but the question still stands

11m tiny set up winger that brings literally nothing else to the table

or

big/mean/skilled/Stud RHSD

for me the choice is a no brainier

No question. If Pietra is coming, Marner is gone, no question ask. Don’t understand why you would even consider breaking up the little depth Leafs have to accommodate having 4 10mil plus players in the line up.

Ideally, you trade Marner to the Ducks to get Kesler, Comotis, and two 1st. Put Kesler on LTIR, sign Pietra for 9.5mil for 7 seven years.
Then trade AJ and Holl to Oilers for Larsson.
Then run a top four of Reilly, Pietra, Muz and Larsson with Dermott and whoever win the spot for 6th D.
Still need another Trade to shake up the forward lines-maybe Willie, but at least the Defence is done.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Hindsight.... But should have done that rumoured Nylander for Pietrangelo deal in 2018 if that was ever on the table. His defence would have made a difference with better success, than keeping Nylander.

If that was on the table then Dubas needs his head checked, especially if you can get the extension on A.P before the trade.

 

[nuck]

Tavares is 29 and his contract already looks very suspect. Pietrangelo is already 30 (almost 31). I don't think the Leafs will have fun navigating one 30+ player making 11 million long term, let alone adding another

But AP isn't Brent Seabrooke. Shea Weber is 35 and still very effective. I wouldn't pay him more than 10 x 7 (adios Mitch) which might not get it done but most of the league can't or wouldn't get into that bidding. Not every player claws for the last dime and a heavily front loaded $10M is a lot of scratch. Of course he has to want to get back tp the GTA.

Edit: oops forgot the Toronto Blues connection with JT. Its in the bag!

 

[Faltorvo]

No question. If Pietra is coming, Marner is gone, no question ask. Don’t understand why you would even consider breaking up the little depth Leafs have to accommodate having 4 10mil plus players in the line up.

Ideally, you trade Marner to the Ducks to get Kesler, Comotis, and two 1st. Put Kesler on LTIR, sign Pietra for 9.5mil for 7 seven years.
Then trade AJ and Holl to Oilers for Larsson.
Then run a top four of Reilly, Pietra, Muz and Larsson with Dermott and whoever win the spot for 6th D.
Still need another Trade to shake up the forward lines-maybe Willie, but at least the Defence is done.

Oh, i think our depth is just fine,,when talking about skilled players

soup/roberts/ look like top 6 potential + hyman,,that's 3 of 4,,,, top 6 wings

then any of kappy/willy/MM take last spot

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

On paper it works but like you said, the cap problem will still exist.
Personally if Pietra is coming in, Marner is gone. There is no way around it. Based on your projection, the defense is better( at least the top 4) but the forward takes a huge hit. Trading Marner and signing Pietra is pretty much a one for one trade.

The problem with moving Marner is that it's doubtful any team could swallow 11m in cap-space without sending anything back. Using this past season as an example, there were zero teams that had that much cap-space. Obviously a move in the off-season is a little different because roster's aren't established but I do think it would be really difficult to move that much without taking any back.

why 14 million?,,this does not compute?

Forwards	Cap-Hit	Term	UFA/RFA
Auston Matthews	$ 11,634,000	4	UFA
John Tavares	$ 11,000,000	5	UFA
Mitchell Marner	$ 10,893,000	5	UFA
Alexander Kerfoot	$ 3,500,000	3	UFA
Zach Hyman	$ 2,250,000	1	UFA
Ilya Mikheyev	$ 2,000,000	0	RFA
Kyle Clifford	$ 1,800,000	0	UFA
Pierre Engvall	$ 1,250,000	2	RFA
Alexander Barabanov	$ 925,000	1	UFA
Frederik Gauthier	$ 900,000	0	RFA
Nicholas Robertson	$ 850,000	2	RFA
Forward Total	$ 47,002,000
Forward % of Cap	57.67%
Defensemen	Cap-Hit	Term	UFA/RFA
Alex Pietrangelo	$ 11,000,000	0	UFA
Jake Muzzin	$ 5,625,000	4	UFA
Morgan Rielly	$ 5,000,000	2	UFA
Justin Holl	$ 2,000,000	3	UFA
Travis Dermott	$ 1,100,000	0	RFA
Rasmus Sandin	$ 894,167	2	RFA
Martin Marincin	$ 700,000	1	UFA
Defensemen Total	$ 26,319,167
Defensemen % of Cap	32.29%
Goalies	Cap-Hit	Term	UFA/RFA
Frederik Andersen	$ 5,000,000	1	UFA
Jack Campbell	$ 1,645,000	2	UFA
Goalie Total	$ 6,645,000
Goalie % of Cap	8.15%
Retained Salary
Phil Kessel	$ 1,200,000	2
Projected Total Cap-Hit	$ 81,166,167
Projected Salary Cap	$ 81,500,000
Projected Cap Space	$ 333,833

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This cap projection excludes Nylanders's nearly 7m, Johnsson's 3.4m and Kap's 3.2m (13.6m in total)

The bolded amounts are estimates.

Can you trade Kessel’s cap hit, is that allowed.

It's a good question. I just assumed that when we traded him to Pittsburgh and retained salary, that you could move the retained amount as well but I'm not sure.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Another issue I see, with the flat cap and no idea when fans are allowed back in building, teams are going to have internal caps, as they are struggling for cash.

It's a good point.

Marner's base salary is $750,000. He gets large signing bonuses at the beginning of the season but if the Leafs pay the next one, that would cover 29.6m of his 60.958m in bonuses. After that he would be owed 35.058m in salary and bonus over the next 5 seasons.

If Toronto paid Nylander's upcoming bonus, he would be owed 24.7m in bonus and salary over the next 5 seasons.

 

[nuck]

Does he even want to move with three little twins?

Fans always forget these players are people too. It's not only about money and logo on your jersey.

Wife is born, raised and schooled in Stl and was a Rams cheerleader. It could be a tough move for the fam. Having said that, if he doesn't want to take a discount to stay there might be nothing holding him back.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Nylander+Kerfoot to Buffalo for 8th overall, Joker, 4th round 2020, 4th round 2021

Sign Pietrangelo

Fits Buffalo's cap and needs.

Skinner-Eichel-Nylander
Olofsson-Kerfoot-Reinhart (6.85M x6yrs)
Johnsson-Kahun(1.5Mx2)-Okposo
X-X-Thompson (900kx1)

Dahlin-Risto
McCabe-Montour(4.75Mx4)
X-Miller

Hutton
Ullmark(2.5M x2)

3.77M in cap space before any other moves. They totally need to convince Eichel to stay after this season.

 

[Faltorvo]

The problem with moving Marner is that it's doubtful any team could swallow 11m in cap-space without sending anything back. Using this past season as an example, there were zero teams that had that much cap-space. Obviously a move in the off-season is a little different because roster's aren't established but I do think it would be really difficult to move that much without taking any back.

Forwards	Cap-Hit	Term	UFA/RFA
Auston Matthews	$ 11,634,000	4	UFA
John Tavares	$ 11,000,000	5	UFA
Mitchell Marner	$ 10,893,000	5	UFA
Alexander Kerfoot	$ 3,500,000	3	UFA
Zach Hyman	$ 2,250,000	1	UFA
Ilya Mikheyev	$ 2,000,000	0	RFA
Kyle Clifford	$ 1,800,000	0	UFA
Pierre Engvall	$ 1,250,000	2	RFA
Alexander Barabanov	$ 925,000	1	UFA
Frederik Gauthier	$ 900,000	0	RFA
Nicholas Robertson	$ 850,000	2	RFA
Forward Total	$ 47,002,000
Forward % of Cap	57.67%
Defensemen	Cap-Hit	Term	UFA/RFA
Alex Pietrangelo	$ 11,000,000	0	UFA
Jake Muzzin	$ 5,625,000	4	UFA
Morgan Rielly	$ 5,000,000	2	UFA
Justin Holl	$ 2,000,000	3	UFA
Travis Dermott	$ 1,100,000	0	RFA
Rasmus Sandin	$ 894,167	2	RFA
Martin Marincin	$ 700,000	1	UFA
Defensemen Total	$ 26,319,167
Defensemen % of Cap	32.29%
Goalies	Cap-Hit	Term	UFA/RFA
Frederik Andersen	$ 5,000,000	1	UFA
Jack Campbell	$ 1,645,000	2	UFA
Goalie Total	$ 6,645,000
Goalie % of Cap	8.15%
Retained Salary
Phil Kessel	$ 1,200,000	2
Projected Total Cap-Hit	$ 81,166,167
Projected Salary Cap	$ 81,500,000
Projected Cap Space	$ 333,833

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This cap projection excludes Nylanders's nearly 7m, Johnsson's 3.4m and Kap's 3.2m (13.6m in total)

The bolded amounts are estimates.



It's a good question. I just assumed that when we traded him to Pittsburgh and retained salary, that you could move the retained amount as well but I'm not sure.

you can't trade kessels cap retention.

Clifford 1.8???????????????????? bye bye
Soup 2m???? for what??????? GEESUZ f***,,he has not done a damn thing yet 8g 23p CAREER and he's worth 2m per ,,,this is the problem in leaf land 1m clifford/1m soup or GTFO

Goat 750k league min or bye bye

there i just saved you a VERY easy 2 million cap.

 

[Faltorvo]

But AP isn't Brent Seabrooke. Shea Weber is 35 and still very effective. I wouldn't pay him more than 10 x 7 (adios Mitch) which might not get it done but most of the league can't or wouldn't get into that bidding. Not every player claws for the last dime and a heavily front loaded $10M is a lot of scratch. Of course he has to want to get back tp the GTA.

Edit: oops forgot the Toronto Blues connection with JT. Its in the bag!

well,,, lets be honest here for a second

have you seen what that city has been up to for that last 3 months?

the wife and kids just might be happy to be somewhere a little more safe and calm.

the crazy stuff has been spreading to these "gated" communities and high end shopping areas.

 

[nuck]

The problem with moving Marner is that it's doubtful any team could swallow 11m in cap-space without sending anything back. Using this past season as an example, there were zero teams that had that much cap-space. Obviously a move in the off-season is a little different because roster's aren't established but I do think it would be really difficult to move that much without taking any back.

It's a good question. I just assumed that when we traded him to Pittsburgh and retained salary, that you could move the retained amount as well but I'm not sure.

I think Jersey could do that. Maybe LA

 

[nuck]

you can't trade kessels cap retention.

Clifford 1.8???????????????????? bye bye
Soup 2m???? for what??????? GEESUZ f***,,he has not done a damn thing yet 8g 23p CAREER and he's worth 2m per ,,,this is the problem in leaf land 1m clifford/1m soup or GTFO

Goat 750k league min or bye bye

there i just saved you a VERY easy 2 million cap.

Clifford costs a 2nd to keep so I am guessing he isn't coming back.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

You can’t get Pietrangelo unless you move Marner or Nylander + extras (Kapanen & Johnsson). Which I’m all for doing. Pietrangelo will be expensive but at least we’re re-allocating some of that stupid amount money we’re spending on forwards to the defence. Pietrangelo is old but he’s no older than Tavares or Muzzin. Andersen too for that matter even though there’s a good chance he’s not back. All the good UFA goaltenders though are 30 or pushing 30 in any case, so unless you can pull off getting a good young goalie with potential assume the starter will be the same age as well.

Pietrangelo would re-open the window for this team and bring about a much needed change philosophically as well as his great on ice play. His maturity would also really help this team.

I say go for it for sure. Sick of being so attached to players on this roster who haven’t given us a reason for the franchise to be loyal to them. Move whoever you need to to make the cap room.

 

[Gabriel426]

The problem with moving Marner is that it's doubtful any team could swallow 11m in cap-space without sending anything back. Using this past season as an example, there were zero teams that had that much cap-space. Obviously a move in the off-season is a little different because roster's aren't established but I do think it would be really difficult to move that much without taking any back.

Forwards	Cap-Hit	Term	UFA/RFA
Auston Matthews	$ 11,634,000	4	UFA
John Tavares	$ 11,000,000	5	UFA
Mitchell Marner	$ 10,893,000	5	UFA
Alexander Kerfoot	$ 3,500,000	3	UFA
Zach Hyman	$ 2,250,000	1	UFA
Ilya Mikheyev	$ 2,000,000	0	RFA
Kyle Clifford	$ 1,800,000	0	UFA
Pierre Engvall	$ 1,250,000	2	RFA
Alexander Barabanov	$ 925,000	1	UFA
Frederik Gauthier	$ 900,000	0	RFA
Nicholas Robertson	$ 850,000	2	RFA
Forward Total	$ 47,002,000
Forward % of Cap	57.67%
Defensemen	Cap-Hit	Term	UFA/RFA
Alex Pietrangelo	$ 11,000,000	0	UFA
Jake Muzzin	$ 5,625,000	4	UFA
Morgan Rielly	$ 5,000,000	2	UFA
Justin Holl	$ 2,000,000	3	UFA
Travis Dermott	$ 1,100,000	0	RFA
Rasmus Sandin	$ 894,167	2	RFA
Martin Marincin	$ 700,000	1	UFA
Defensemen Total	$ 26,319,167
Defensemen % of Cap	32.29%
Goalies	Cap-Hit	Term	UFA/RFA
Frederik Andersen	$ 5,000,000	1	UFA
Jack Campbell	$ 1,645,000	2	UFA
Goalie Total	$ 6,645,000
Goalie % of Cap	8.15%
Retained Salary
Phil Kessel	$ 1,200,000	2
Projected Total Cap-Hit	$ 81,166,167
Projected Salary Cap	$ 81,500,000
Projected Cap Space	$ 333,833

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This cap projection excludes Nylanders's nearly 7m, Johnsson's 3.4m and Kap's 3.2m (13.6m in total)

The bolded amounts are estimates.



It's a good question. I just assumed that when we traded him to Pittsburgh and retained salary, that you could move the retained amount as well but I'm not sure.

I will say a Marner trade with the Ducks centering Manson and Kesler(capwise works) with other parts like Marner, Kerfoot and Holl for Kesler, Manson, Comotis and 2 1sts(one of the being this year 1st from Boston)

 

[Faltorvo]

Clifford costs a 2nd to keep so I am guessing he isn't coming back.

oh really???

ya, heck that,, total bye bye

use all that scouting $ and supposed "big brain" to find a 700k hungry neanderthal that will eat glass for that pay check.

 

[Lightsol]

Can everyone stop with the "let's give/trade for a huge expensive contract to a defenseman over 30?" bullshit already? Handing out expensive long-term contracts to guys over 30 has been the ultimate downfall of every Leaf team I've ever watched, and trading guys away just to free up the money to sign Peterangelo? You're praying he doesn't drop off for that contract... And they generally always do.

 

[rumman]

Clifford costs a 2nd to keep so I am guessing he isn't coming back.

hopefully, Leafs need functional toughness, not a aging vet who get 4 minutes a game.

 

[Stephen]

Unless the price of free agents craters because of Covid I don’t see how we can afford him unless we aggressively pitch everything overboard.

Speaking of cheap options, Bogosian looks respectable for Tampa Bay. As much as he has struggled in Buffalo lately he does look like a credible NHL defenseman which some of our guys did not.

 

[Stephen]

Can everyone stop with the "let's give/trade for a huge expensive contract to a defenseman over 30?" bullshit already? Handing out expensive long-term contracts to guys over 30 has been the ultimate downfall of every Leaf team I've ever watched, and trading guys away just to free up the money to sign Peterangelo? You're praying he doesn't drop off for that contract... And they generally always do.

Technically, Zdeno Chara was 28-29 when the Bruins signed him, so you can never be sure how guys age. But I’m not sure where Pietrangelo’s game will go either over the next few years.

If we go for cheap solutions, I wonder if they can bring in 2 or 3 veteran guys like Bogosian to fill things out temporarily.

 

[Gabriel426]

Can everyone stop with the "let's give/trade for a huge expensive contract to a defenseman over 30?" bullshit already? Handing out expensive long-term contracts to guys over 30 has been the ultimate downfall of every Leaf team I've ever watched, and trading guys away just to free up the money to sign Peterangelo? You're praying he doesn't drop off for that contract... And they generally always do.

Age is over blown. This is not a 5 years, heck a 3 years from now team. This is a win now team.