Speculation: "I want to win cups" (All Drew Doughty Proposals here)

[ACC1224]

As his latest quotes points out hes not wanting out of la unless we don't improve. He still wants to stay and win in la. So whats this disadvantage u speak of

I'll leave it at that, you're just being silly now.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

We are going to disagree on this but if I had my choice of the version of Pronger the Oilers got or today's DD Id take Pronger. As much as I love Doughty, Pronger was a truly unique sort of defenseman. He was great offensively, generational defensively at his best and still terrific when he was in Edmonton and one of the nastiest guys around.

Lupul was an Edmonton area kid so he was well known to people who follow the Oilers. No doubt he was a very good young player with a solid start to his career. But what Marner did in 2017 is actually quite a bit more significant than what Lupul was able to do back then. Plus the value of young controlled assets has increased significantly since the early days of the cap.

I do agree that it is very unlikely that the Kings would trade DD this year. The trade deadline to me would be the worst time. So yes a sign and trade is possible. But you still have a relatively small number of teams who could fit the profile. Not that everyone would not want Doughty, its just that there are only a handful of teams that would be considered really contenders for any significant portion of his next deal. And they will not give up developed assets at the level of Marner easily. One or two might think about it. But it's not going to be some free for all bidding war if you want actual top notch young NHL'ers.

I agree Marner is probably better then lupul was at the time but i think that sisia and the possibility of 2 more firsts on top of it makes up the difference of one late pick and liljegren . Easily better then what im asking.

Now i disagree the idea that only a handful of team would be interested. Any team could add a 5 million or so player to the deal ad easy afford drew. A high cap player coming back only makes sense in some ideas. Most likely a rhd I expect at least 5-7 teams seriously bidding. Elite defense man are worth there weight in gold especially right handed defense man like drew

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I'll leave it at that, you're just being silly now.

How am i being silly ? He was misquoted and cleared it up. I think your just disappointed he did as you lost your perceived advantaged

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Most Leaf fans acknowledge that they wouldn't give up whatever the perceived "what it would take" would be via trade. Sign him as a UFA or nothing... and I'm fine with nothing.

Which is fine by me. I was only dealing with the ones that wanted to trade for him. Your fan base never agrees 100% on anything. So there will always be people not agreeing with each other.

 

[Rob Brown]

Which is fine by me. I was only dealing with the ones that wanted to trade for him. Your fan base never agrees 100% on anything. So there will always be people not agreeing with each other.

No fan base agrees 100% on anything.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

No fan base agrees 100% on anything.

I've dealt with all the fans bases in hf The leaf nation is by far the worse. I am not trying to knock the nation The reason i think this is because its probably the biggest and the more people in the fan base the more different idea of what they want. I have seen most fan bases agree for the most part on some things. I have never seen leaf nation in full agreement on any topic

 

[CraigsList]

Toronto makes a lot of sense here. Would certainly put them in contention as a top 5-6 Eastern team with him in the lineup.

Problem is, they're giving up one or both of Marner/Nylander with some serious adds.

That's way too much for someone that has 2 years left on his contract. Toronto would still have to give up one of those two, Liljegren and 1st.

I think a solid offer is Nylander + Liljegren + 2018 1st, and a 2020 2nd if Doughty resigns. Kings get a D prospect in the pipeline for 2-3 and get Nylander who would be their #1RW. He'd probably light it up with Kopitar.

 

[Rob Brown]

I've dealt with all the fans bases in hf The leaf nation is by far the worse. I am not trying to knock the nation The reason i think this is because its probably the biggest and the more people in the fan base the more different idea of what they want. I have seen most fan bases agree for the most part on some things. I have never seen leaf nation in full agreement on any topic

Everyone here has dealt with all fanbases on HFBoards because we all post here. You don't have more "experience" than the rest of us. It's also impossible to prove that Leafs fans disagree with eachother more frequently.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Everyone here has dealt with all fanbases on HFBoards because we all post here. You don't have more "experience" than the rest of us. It's also impossible to prove that Leafs fans disagree with eachother more frequently.

where did i say i have more experience only that i have dealt with every fan base and think leaf nation is the one that never agrees with its own members. This is my opinion It doesn't surprise me your arguing against my opinion thou. To bad there wasn't a poll put up to ask the question which fan base is the hardest to deal with I would put serious money on the leafs winning it.

 

[Rob Brown]

where did i say i have more experience only that i have dealt with every fan base and think leaf nation is the one that never agrees with its own members. This is my opinion It doesn't surprise me your arguing against my opinion thou. To bad there wasn't a poll put up to ask the question which fan base is the hardest to deal with I would put serious money on the leafs winning it.

You didn't explicitly say that you had more experience but you said it's "by far the worse" as if that's the absolute truth. I disagree with you, so where does that leave us? And of course you'll say that the Leafs are the hardest to deal with, that doesn't surprise me either.

Anyway, back on topic, I think every team would love DD on their team but we'll have to see how it shakes out.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

You didn't explicitly say that you had more experience but you said it's "by far the worse" as if that's the absolute truth. I disagree with you, so where does that leave us? And of course you'll say that the Leafs are the hardest to deal with, that doesn't surprise me either.

Anyway, back on topic, I think every team would love DD on their team but we'll have to see how it shakes out.

I said as my opinion if u take it like i said it as absolute truth that's your issue not mine. Its not like i really have anything against leaf fans I have friends in your nation that i'm pretty sure will agree with my statement. (please if u do agree or disagree post it) Well i guess i said something to close to home for u sorry if ur upset by my opinion

I do agree but it won't shake out imo till next summer so this thread is not going to be all that relevant when it goes down imo So much can change between now and then.

 

[Rob Brown]

I said as my opinion if u take it like i said it as absolute truth that's your issue not mine. Its not like i really have anything against leaf fans I have friends in your nation that i'm pretty sure will agree with my statement. (please if u do agree or disagree post it) Well i guess i said something to close to home for u sorry if ur upset by my opinion

I do agree but it won't shake out imo till next summer so this thread is not going to be all that relevant when it goes down imo So much can change between now and then.

Unless DD keeps talking about it publicly

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Unless DD keeps talking about it publicly

anything is possible but i would hope he would have learned how easy it is to have your words twisted into something you didn't mean. However its Drew and hes not exactly known to be a Mensa member lol

 

[TOGuy14]

Toronto makes a lot of sense here. Would certainly put them in contention as a top 5-6 Eastern team with him in the lineup.

Problem is, they're giving up one or both of Marner/Nylander with some serious adds.

I don't know if this thread can get any more ridiculous.

I thought it was insanity when people were suggesting Marner + Lil + but now we have talked our way over to Marner + Nylander + "serious adds"

Leafs want no part of trading for DD.

DD will not fetch anywhere near what LA fans think. In the old NHL someone would have given you drunk sailor amounts of assets for him, but in the new cap NHL nobody is going to give you a boatload of ELC studs for a guy going UFA no matter what his past accomplishments are.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I don't know if this thread can get any more ridiculous.

I thought it was insanity when people were suggesting Marner + Lil + but now we have talked our way over to Marner + Nylander + "serious adds"

Leafs want no part of trading for DD.

DD will not fetch anywhere near what LA fans think. In the old NHL someone would have given you drunk sailor amounts of assets for him, but in the new cap NHL nobody is going to give you a boatload of ELC studs for a guy going UFA no matter what his past accomplishments are.

I think u need to slow down The person that suggest Marner and Nylander + is not a kings fan. By the look of his posts hes a flame fan but ok jump to conclusions again. As for your Leafs want no part of DD your dead wrong Leafs no there weakness is defense Lets not pretend its not and Drew is one of the best defense man in the league.
As for your opinion about Drews value that is the point of the thread to discuss it. Just to say hes not is useless imo Why not try making a offer instead of being so negative.

 

[Tryamkin]

Dahlin - Doughty
Hutton - Tanev

 

[LoovTrain]

I think u need to slow down The person that suggest Marner and Nylander + is not a kings fan. By the look of his posts hes a flame fan but ok jump to conclusions again. As for your Leafs want no part of DD your dead wrong Leafs no there weakness is defense Lets not pretend its not and Drew is one of the best defense man in the league.
As for your opinion about Drews value that is the point of the thread to discuss it. Just to say hes not is useless imo Why not try making a offer instead of being so negative.

At least, read what he said...

The Leafs want no part of trading for Doughty.

Sheesh.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

At least, read what he said...

The Leafs want no part of trading for Doughty.

Sheesh.

If drew was available the leafs would be interested in trading for him There management knows that defense is there weakness and DRew is exactly the type of defense they need. To think any different show ur ignorance to your teams weakness imo. I honestly think leaf fans are under estimating how much Drew would improve there team. Then again if leaf fans want to wait more year and hope they can develop a decent number one more power too them. They aren't winning the cup with there current defense imo

 

[member 88115]

At least, read what he said...

The Leafs want no part of trading for Doughty.

Sheesh.

What's funny is that most of the proposal on this thread are from Leaf fans.

 

[LoovTrain]

If drew was available the leafs would be interested in trading for him There management knows that defense is there weakness and DRew is exactly the type of defense they need. To think any different show ur ignorance to your teams weakness imo. I honestly think leaf fans are under estimating how much Drew would improve there team. Then again if leaf fans want to wait more year and hope they can develop a decent number one more power too them. They aren't winning the cup with there current defense imo

Look man, every Leafs fan knows how good Doughty is and how he would help this team if we signed him as a UFA

He would however, help us a lot less if we gave up prime assets for him.

Why should we give up "what it would take" for two years of Doughty? Don't you know JVR has little value because he is soon to be UFA (or so we've been told)?

Why should we help your rebuild by gutting our team?

That could potentially cripple our franchise. There are many ways to address our weaknesses without giving up large chunks of our future. And that could include any or all of trading/signing/developing from within. Getting Doughty doesn't guarantee us a Cup neither does not getting Doughty preclude us from winning a Cup. If Doughty wants to chase a Cup with the Leafs, he would probably prefer not to have the team gutted to get him... kinda defeats the purpose no?

I believe Doughty wants to stay in L.A. and has no particular dreams of playing for the Leafs.

Either way, this Leaf fan has no desire to help your team rebuild with the assets we went through a lot of pain to acquire.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Look man, every Leafs fan knows how good Doughty is and how he would help this team if we signed him as a UFA

He would however, help us a lot less if we gave up prime assets for him.

Why should we give up "what it would take" for two years of Doughty? Don't you know JVR has little value because he is soon to be UFA (or so we've been told)?

Why should we help your rebuild by gutting our team?

That could potentially cripple our franchise. There are many ways to address our weaknesses without giving up large chunks of our future. And that could include any or all of trading/signing/developing from within. Getting Doughty doesn't guarantee us a Cup neither does not getting Doughty preclude us from winning a Cup. If Doughty wants to chase a Cup with the Leafs, he would probably prefer not to have the team gutted to get him... kinda defeats the purpose no?

I believe Doughty wants to stay in L.A. and has no particular dreams of playing for the Leafs.

Either way, this Leaf fan has no desire to help your team rebuild with the assets we went through a lot of pain to acquire.

He would help your team be a contender right now.If the leaf made the trade i ask for They lose one player from there team (Marner or Nylander) this is not gutting your team at all Yes u lose maybe 10 goals (the difference of drew and marners replacement) HOWEVER defensively you would give up 20 less goals easy Also your pk get a ton better as well. Having a true number one improves your team 10 X as much as losing one talented winger.

I can't believe your seriously trying to compare drew doughty and jvr Drew is a elite player Jvr is good but no where near drews value.

I agree it doesn't garrente anything however your dreaming to think it doesn't improve your chance significantly. Simply put with drew your in the race without you have no chance.

As i said to lifer i will say again to you I would think getting a cup would be a priority after the length your team has been without one. With a true number one like drew ur a contender without ur a pretender. I had the same reaction as your having when we made the Richards trade however the results make it something i would do now knowing the results

 

[LoovTrain]

He would help your team be a contender right now.If the leaf made the trade i ask for They lose one player from there team (Marner or Nylander) this is not gutting your team at all Yes u lose maybe 10 goals (the difference of drew and marners replacement) HOWEVER defensively you would give up 20 less goals easy Also your pk get a ton better as well. Having a true number one improves your team 10 X as much as losing one talented winger.

I can't believe your seriously trying to compare drew doughty and jvr Drew is a elite player Jvr is good but no where near drews value.

I agree it doesn't garrente anything however your dreaming to think it doesn't improve your chance significantly. Simply put with drew your in the race without you have no chance.

As i said to lifer i will say again to you I would think getting a cup would be a priority after the length your team has been without one. With a true number one like drew ur a contender without ur a pretender. I had the same reaction as your having when we made the Richards trade however the results make it something i would do now knowing the results

First off, every time this is brought up it is Marner ++ or Nylander ++ or Marner + Nylander etc. etc. So it's not just ONE player. **** man I've seen such bs as Marner + Rielly +1st in threads other than this one. So, I don't buy that part of your argument, regardless of what your "proposed trade" was.

Secondly, if you listen to Shanahan, Babcock and Lamoriello they are trying to build a perennial contender for a decade or longer. Which helps that more? Two years of Doughty or 9-10 years of Marner/Nylander?

You know what REALLY helps that? 9-10 years of Matthews+Marner+Nylander AND 7 years of Doughty (or any other quality Dman). Doughty is a great option no doubt, but he is far from our only option.

This team will get better defensively just through our young forwards gaining more experience at the NHL level.
This team will get better defensively as our d-men grow and get more experience (a 23 year old and an NHL rookie were our top pairing and top 10 in QofC last year)
This team will get better defensively as some of our weaker defensive forwards are replaced by better two-way players.
This team will get better defensively as Freddy Andersen continues to grow as a starter.

There are a lot of ways this team can get better defensively without adding Drew Doughty.

There are a lot of ways this team can win a Cup without adding Drew Doughty.

Some of us still believe in patience, as evidenced by the poll that has been running on the Leaf forum which asks "Who would you trade for Doughty? Marner? Nylander? Neither?

Neither is winning with 81% of the vote.

 

[member 88115]

First off, every time this is brought up it is Marner ++ or Nylander ++ or Marner + Nylander etc. etc. So it's not just ONE player. **** man I've seen such bs as Marner + Rielly +1st in threads other than this one. So, I don't buy that part of your argument, regardless of what your "proposed trade" was.

Secondly, if you listen to Shanahan, Babcock and Lamoriello they are trying to build a perennial contender for a decade or longer. Which helps that more? Two years of Doughty or 9-10 years of Marner/Nylander?

You know what REALLY helps that? 9-10 years of Matthews+Marner+Nylander AND 7 years of Doughty (or any other quality Dman). Doughty is a great option no doubt, but he is far from our only option.

This team will get better defensively just through our young forwards gaining more experience at the NHL level.
This team will get better defensively as our d-men grow and get more experience (a 23 year old and an NHL rookie were our top pairing and top 10 in QofC last year)
This team will get better defensively as some of our weaker defensive forwards are replaced by better two-way players.
This team will get better defensively as Freddy Andersen continues to grow as a starter.

There are a lot of ways this team can get better defensively without adding Drew Doughty.

There are a lot of ways this team can win a Cup without adding Drew Doughty.

Some of us still believe in patience, as evidenced by the poll that has been running on the Leaf forum which asks "Who would you trade for Doughty? Marner? Nylander? Neither?

Neither is winning with 81% of the vote.

You can exaggerate all you want, but what LA wanted is a top prospect or player for Doughty (if he was available. That includes Nylander or Marner. U don't like that is fine, but they were offfered by quite a few Leaf posters.

I agree that most of the building is home grown, but their will come a time top players will need to let go from a position of strength to fill needs. Wha are you going to bring in to improve your D. Toronto won't be drafting in top 5 anymore. And Sweden kid has potential, but that's like LA banking that Vilardi to be the Next Mario Lemieux. Unless you have Crosby & Malkin on your team, you will need a Doughty type of D. Can Matthews be a Crosby? I think Matthews is great, but he has a long way to go to be that.

 

[Psuhockey]

Pronger wasn't as good as drew is now when he got traded. Also his trade from st Louis to edmonton was made to reduce payroll in order to sell the blues. That was a huge reason the return wasnt as high to me. La has no payroll need to get rid of drew hence the premium.

The edmonton to duck trade was sending lupul was only 23 and a 7th overall pick Smid was a 9th over all pick who was only 20 at the time of the trade a 2007 first round pick and a conditional pick This trade is actually more then what i was asking Marner/nylander Liljegren and a 1st

Next i believe there hasn't been anyone of drews caliber traded in this sorta situation So a premium would be the only way it happens.

Pronger was better. How many Hart trophies has Doughty been up for?

The thing to take into consideration is how much the league has changed since that Pronger trade. Young players and top prospects are worth more now because new GMs understand the cap better. The old trading dinosaurs like Holmgren and Burke have all been fired. With Doughty scheduled to walk, teams aren't going to give that kind of ransom.

If a deal goes down next summer, at most I think it will be a good NHL young player (below Marner level), a top prospect (below Patrick level) and a 1st round pick. Maybe LA could squeeze out another 2nd or 3rd round pick out of the deal.

 

[Iceman]

Dahlin - Doughty
Hutton - Tanev

Huh? What does this even mean?