Speculation: "I want to win cups" (All Drew Doughty Proposals here)

[ACC1224]

How often can people actually get, arguably, one of the top 3 total defencemen in the league?
Skilled wingers don't get you too far in that scenario. I was the Kings, my ask starts with Marner AND Nylander; then a 1st.

OR

I my ask starts with Nylander, Reilly, 1st Rounder.

DD is one of the best around.

You may ask that but Blake certainly wouldn't waste the Leafs time by asking it.
These are grown ups not posters trying to win some imaginary battle.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

You may ask that but Blake certainly wouldn't waste the Leafs time by asking it.
These are grown ups not posters trying to win some imaginary battle.

You have no idea of the value of a true elite number one defense man.

 

[LuGBuG]

Anaheim trades Perry and Vatanen and signs Doughty

 

[ACC1224]

You have no idea of the value of a true elite number one defense man.

They wouldn't be traded for whatever you perceive their value to be, that much is certain.

 

[KingsHockey24]

'I don't want to win a Cup anywhere else but L.A. That's the bottom line.' - Drew Doughty

https://www.nhl.com/kings/news/drew...s-entire-nhl-career-with-la-kings/c-291036940

"My one comment, 'I don't care where I play. I just want to win [Stanley] Cups.' That is true. I just want to win Cups," said Doughty, who can become an unrestricted free agent after the 2018-19 season. "When I said that, it didn't mean I didn't want to do it in L.A. The bottom line is all I care about is Cups. I don't want to win a Cup anywhere else but L.A. That's the bottom line."

 

[KingCanadain1976]

They wouldn't be traded for whatever you perceive their value to be, that much is certain.

How do u know Name me a comparable person to doughy thats been traded?

 

[Morbo]

'I don't want to win a Cup anywhere else but L.A. That's the bottom line.' - Drew Doughty

https://www.nhl.com/kings/news/drew...s-entire-nhl-career-with-la-kings/c-291036940

"My one comment, 'I don't care where I play. I just want to win [Stanley] Cups.' That is true. I just want to win Cups," said Doughty, who can become an unrestricted free agent after the 2018-19 season. "When I said that, it didn't mean I didn't want to do it in L.A. The bottom line is all I care about is Cups. I don't want to win a Cup anywhere else but L.A. That's the bottom line."

Hopefully Doughty won't suffer a backpedaling injury and start the season late.

 

[ACC1224]

How do u know Name me a comparable person to doughy thats been traded?

Pronger went for no where near that.

Name me any player that's been traded for a return as crazy as Marner, Nylander and 1st.

 

[Volica]

That would be like asking for Tkachuk, Gaudreau and a 1st on the Flames end. You might or might not be ok with it.

Or something like Tkachuk, Hamilton, 1st.

In any case, none of us would offer a kings ransom like that unless Doughty was younger + on a cheaper and longer extension- not 2 years from UFA (no security + about to get his retirement paycheck).

DD is legitimately a top 5 d annually and in any given year, might be the best. But consider the alternatives for us (like going all in, in 2 or 3 years for a empty wallet UFA D in a class that includes Doughty). Or B options without giving up said ransom and it's doubtful any of us would even entertain that offer.

Doughty may be worth it but I don't see any team offering a package like that, context considered. And if they did, most of us Leaf fans probably wouldn't feel remotely bad about it.



Doughty is definitively superior to Subban, this is true.

I literally posted something similar to this on the Flames board. So, I'm not sure what you're getting at
It's weird that people think that he's going to be given away, or for some spare parts. The guy's 27, will be 28 in December; he still likely has 6-7 years of top defensive play ahead of him.

The guy's one of the best in the league. The last time a top 10 Dman (not top 5) was traded, it took a guy who is also a top 10 Dman back to get the deal done. A guy like Larsson, who is not even in the same galaxy as Doughty, cost one of the better LW's in the game.

Marner and Nylander are question marks. Are they 60 point guys? 65 point, 50 point, 70 point? Doughty... Doughty's well, Doughty. One of the best defensemen in the league. Team Canada's top pairing Dman; 2 time Cup winner, Norris.... I mean, hoping for Kapanen to get a deal to be agreed upon is laughable. LA won't move him anytime soon, but I think everyone needs to understand the value that a player like this has.

 

[ACC1224]

I literally posted something similar to this on the Flames board. So, I'm not sure what you're getting at
It's weird that people think that he's going to be given away, or for some spare parts. The guy's 27, will be 28 in December; he still likely has 6-7 years of top defensive play ahead of him.

The guy's one of the best in the league. The last time a top 10 Dman (not top 5) was traded, it took a guy who is also a top 10 Dman back to get the deal done. A guy like Larsson, who is not even in the same galaxy as Doughty, cost one of the better LW's in the game.

Marner and Nylander are question marks. Are they 60 point guys? 65 point, 50 point, 70 point? Doughty... Doughty's well, Doughty. One of the best defensemen in the league. Team Canada's top pairing Dman; 2 time Cup winner, Norris.... I mean, hoping for Kapanen to get a deal to be agreed upon is laughable. LA won't move him anytime soon, but I think everyone needs to understand the value that a player like this has.

What's weird is you believe people think that.

You can guarantee he won't be traded for Kapanen. You can also guarantee he won't be traded for Marner, Nylander and a 1st.

In fact you can pretty much guarantee he's going to re-sign in LA and not be traded at all.

 

[therealkoho]

Doughty is a goof and he does enjoy the attention but if that is what he was really after he'd be open to signing in Montreal,Toronto or any other Canadian market that's obsessed with hockey. I'm obviously speculating here but i cant see him signing in one of those cities. I'd absolutely love it if he signed here but it's just not happening. Its the same old song and dance. A player is within 2 years of free agency and everyone starts speculating, reading too much between the lines and hoping he signs with them. In reality, he stays put, signs a max term deal and you never hear about it again. This is mainly media driven and we all get sucked in. I want Tavares to sign ASAP, an entire year of the media talking about his possible departure will be annoying.

Doughty was the one that brought up Toronto. it had nothing to do with media hype driving fan speculation/hysteria

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Pronger went for no where near that.

Name me any player that's been traded for a return as crazy as Marner, Nylander and 1st.

Pronger wasn't as good as drew is now when he got traded. Also his trade from st Louis to edmonton was made to reduce payroll in order to sell the blues. That was a huge reason the return wasnt as high to me. La has no payroll need to get rid of drew hence the premium.

The edmonton to duck trade was sending lupul was only 23 and a 7th overall pick Smid was a 9th over all pick who was only 20 at the time of the trade a 2007 first round pick and a conditional pick This trade is actually more then what i was asking Marner/nylander Liljegren and a 1st

Next i believe there hasn't been anyone of drews caliber traded in this sorta situation So a premium would be the only way it happens.

 

[therealkoho]

'I don't want to win a Cup anywhere else but L.A. That's the bottom line.' - Drew Doughty

https://www.nhl.com/kings/news/drew...s-entire-nhl-career-with-la-kings/c-291036940

"My one comment, 'I don't care where I play. I just want to win [Stanley] Cups.' That is true. I just want to win Cups," said Doughty, who can become an unrestricted free agent after the 2018-19 season. "When I said that, it didn't mean I didn't want to do it in L.A. The bottom line is all I care about is Cups. I don't want to win a Cup anywhere else but L.A. That's the bottom line."

i pointed out the other day that he said this because he probably and more then likely got whipped pretty hard by both his agent and Kings management to calm the waters

 

[ACC1224]

Pronger wasn't as good as drew is now when he got traded. Also his trade from st Louis to edmonton was made to reduce payroll in order to sell the blues. That was a huge reason the return wasnt as high to me. La has no payroll need to get rid of drew hence the premium.

The edmonton to duck trade was sending lupul was only 23 and a 7th overall pick Smid was a 9th over all pick who was only 20 at the time of the trade a 2007 first round pick and a conditional pick This trade is actually more then what i was asking Marner/nylander Liljegren and a 1st

Next i believe there hasn't been anyone of drews caliber traded in this sorta situation So a premium would be the only way it happens.

The situation is the reason he won't get your expected value. L.A. would be at a disadvantage and Teams would know that.
His value as a player is immense but the factors will reduce it.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

The situation is the reason he won't get your expected value. L.A. would be at a disadvantage and Teams would know that.
His value as a player is immense but the factors will reduce it.

As his latest quotes points out hes not wanting out of la unless we don't improve. He still wants to stay and win in la. So whats this disadvantage u speak of

 

[Fourier]

Pronger wasn't as good as drew is now when he got traded. Also his trade from st Louis to edmonton was made to reduce payroll in order to sell the blues. That was a huge reason the return wasnt as high to me. La has no payroll need to get rid of drew hence the premium.

The edmonton to duck trade was sending lupul was only 23 and a 7th overall pick Smid was a 9th over all pick who was only 20 at the time of the trade a 2007 first round pick and a conditional pick This trade is actually more then what i was asking Marner/nylander Liljegren and a 1st

Next i believe there hasn't been anyone of drews caliber traded in this sorta situation So a premium would be the only way it happens.

Pronger was absolutely in the same tier as Doughty when he was traded to the Oilers. And while the reasons were different both trades would be made because of extending circumstances reducing the value of the return. In Doughty's case, if such a trade was to be made, his contract, both existing and pending, as well as the need for his new team to be a contender would be a serious limitation on what teams would pay.

I am not Leaf fan...But there is big difference between the value of Marner/Nylander today and Lupul back then. Plus Pronger had 5 years left on a very good deal.

If Doughty was to be moved he'd get a lot for sure. But unless it is a sign and trade there is little chance he'd get the type of return you seem to be looking for.

 

[Rob Brown]

Pronger wasn't as good as drew is now when he got traded. Also his trade from st Louis to edmonton was made to reduce payroll in order to sell the blues. That was a huge reason the return wasnt as high to me. La has no payroll need to get rid of drew hence the premium.

The edmonton to duck trade was sending lupul was only 23 and a 7th overall pick Smid was a 9th over all pick who was only 20 at the time of the trade a 2007 first round pick and a conditional pick This trade is actually more then what i was asking Marner/nylander Liljegren and a 1st

Next i believe there hasn't been anyone of drews caliber traded in this sorta situation So a premium would be the only way it happens.

That's fine, but it doesn't mean that the Leafs will give up that kind of package.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Pronger was absolutely in the same tier as Doughty when he was traded to the Oilers. And while the reasons were different both trades would be made because of extending circumstances reducing the value of the return. In Doughty's case, if such a trade was to be made, his contract, both existing and pending, as well as the need for his new team to be a contender would be a serious limitation on what teams would pay.

I am not Leaf fan...But there is big difference between the value of Marner/Nylander today and Lupul back then. Plus Pronger had 5 years left on a very good deal.

If Doughty was to be moved he'd get a lot for sure. But unless it is a sign and trade there is little chance he'd get the type of return you seem to be looking for.

We disagree on the return for Pronger to me the edmonton to ducks trade is a 3 firsts picks with a chance of 4 That to me is comparable/arguable better return then i ask based on draft position Now i will say the siska and lupal and the first didn't turn out as stars but whos to say Marner/nylnder wont follow lupuls career path no one. Same with Liljegren whos to say right now he even plays a game. I think ur looking at potential to much Im sure when the pronger trade was made the ducks saw the same potential in there prospects. You have to give to get.

To be honest with you no way do we trade drew till next summer when we can for sure see what it would take to get him to sign. If we were told to high of a cost or he wants to go ufa then i would be fine letting a team negotiate with him and do the sign and trade option. However the price would still be high because there would be a bidding war for him. The price might even be higher depending on how bad the teams want him. Elite defense man don't grow on trees.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

That's fine, but it doesn't mean that the Leafs will give up that kind of package.

Never once did i say they had to. I only say what it would take. I would be fine with the caps offer So lets not pretend the leafs are the only option

 

[Rob Brown]

Never once did i say they had to. I only say what it would take. I would be fine with the caps offer So lets not pretend the leafs are the only option

I don't think anyone said that. No need to get so offended. People don't have to agree with you that that is "what it would take".

 

[Sol]

That was such an awful way to retract something that it strengthened what he said. Lol wow.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I don't think anyone said that. No need to get so offended. People don't have to agree with you that that is "what it would take".

lmao who got offended ? this is a website designed for discussion. I was only pointing out my position on what it would take. There is no reason for the kings to take anything less. Most leaf fans in here are sounding like it take my crap offer or lose him for nothing I have pointed out to them there are comparable/better offers out there. Never once did i say you had to agree with my point of view.

 

[Fourier]

We disagree on the return for Pronger to me the edmonton to ducks trade is a 3 firsts picks with a chance of 4 That to me is comparable/arguable better return then i ask based on draft position Now i will say the siska and lupal and the first didn't turn out as stars but whos to say Marner/nylnder wont follow lupuls career path no one. Same with Liljegren whos to say right now he even plays a game. I think ur looking at potential to much Im sure when the pronger trade was made the ducks saw the same potential in there prospects. You have to give to get.

To be honest with you no way do we trade drew till next summer when we can for sure see what it would take to get him to sign. If we were told to high of a cost or he wants to go ufa then i would be fine letting a team negotiate with him and do the sign and trade option. However the price would still be high because there would be a bidding war for him. The price might even be higher depending on how bad the teams want him. Elite defense man don't grow on trees.

We are going to disagree on this but if I had my choice of the version of Pronger the Oilers got or today's DD Id take Pronger. As much as I love Doughty, Pronger was a truly unique sort of defenseman. He was great offensively, generational defensively at his best and still terrific when he was in Edmonton and one of the nastiest guys around.

Lupul was an Edmonton area kid so he was well known to people who follow the Oilers. No doubt he was a very good young player with a solid start to his career. But what Marner did in 2017 is actually quite a bit more significant than what Lupul was able to do back then. Plus the value of young controlled assets has increased significantly since the early days of the cap.

I do agree that it is very unlikely that the Kings would trade DD this year. The trade deadline to me would be the worst time. So yes a sign and trade is possible. But you still have a relatively small number of teams who could fit the profile. Not that everyone would not want Doughty, its just that there are only a handful of teams that would be considered really contenders for any significant portion of his next deal. And they will not give up developed assets at the level of Marner easily. One or two might think about it. But it's not going to be some free for all bidding war if you want actual top notch young NHL'ers.

 

[LoovTrain]

lmao who got offended ? this is a website designed for discussion. I was only pointing out my position on what it would take. There is no reason for the kings to take anything less. Most leaf fans in here are sounding like it take my crap offer or lose him for nothing I have pointed out to them there are comparable/better offers out there. Never once did i say you had to agree with my point of view.

Most Leaf fans acknowledge that they wouldn't give up whatever the perceived "what it would take" would be via trade. Sign him as a UFA or nothing... and I'm fine with nothing.

 

[Sureves]

That was such an awful way to retract something that it strengthened what he said. Lol wow.

Drew has never struck me as being a very bright guy, particularly in the way he communicates.