Grate n Colorful Oz
Hutson Hawk
He did that with TWO #1 Ds in front of him.
He wont have ONE for the first 50 games.
By the time game #20 will have come around you'll have made your usual Casperretty dissapearing act because as always, your predictions will lack something fundamental; understanding tge subtleties and context regarding player and team performance.
This is not a computer/VG software were you put a 95 rated goalie and he'll dominate no matter what's around him.
Grate n Colorful Oz
Hutson Hawk
Oh I know... I got in many "discussions" with him... I've always ended on the wrong side of the infractions. He's good at what he does and mods cant really justify infractions even if it's clear as day..
groovejuice
Without deviation progress is not possible
Geez man, do you really need to "read this board" to know that Weber is not any kind of PMD? He's marginally better at moving the puck than Skillzy was.
Not true. Even when Price was dominant, he had a decent D in front of him (including 2 top line D-men). We now have zero until Weber is back, depending how he comes back. As a matter of fact, we only have 1 legitimate 2nd pairing D-man in Petry.
First off I said IF they will make the playoffs the only way it will happen is by Price winning 35-37 games of 2 goals or less. And then I looked at his best season and saw he COULD do it, which doesn't mean he will. Mathematically its the only way the team will make the playoffs IMO.
Second point the narrative around Price is changing. 2 years ago it was all Price, without Price (even with PK and Markov) this team was a lottery team. The epic collapse was used as proof that Price is a man on his own. Remember MT's record was all Price and only Price.
So I am curious now that it was the team around Price that allowed him to have those great seasons and the epic collapse didn't prove that this team was a lottery team without Price? Are we now going to give credit to the team around Price and god forbid even the coach?
Personally I don't think Price is going to repeat his Hart season. Its a long shot, but due to the roster the Habs have the only way they CAN make the playoffs is by allowing 2 or less goals in 51 or more games like the 2014/15 season. If not they will finish where they should at the bottom of the league.
But if you believe Price carried MT from 2012-2016 and that if you removed Price from those teams they would be lottery teams then I don't see how you can't think its possible can do the same. If you think Price is a product of his teammates and system then it makes sense to be skeptical that he can repeat his performance.
Grate n Colorful Oz
Hutson Hawk
And I'm cautioning that it's almost certain he won't because when he did do it, he had two #1 dmen.
Let me stop you right there. I'm not the board. It took you about 50 words to revert back to strawman mode. The only narrative is a false one you ascribe to me so you can debate against it.
I've often been outspoken, many times, in the past 6 years on how Price is not the only difference maker on the Habs.
Next time don't be so pedantic.
They won't
Price, Subban, Markov and the rest carried MT.
It's funny how for you it's some huge dichotomy. Price isn't solely responsible for the Habs past success, but he's also not just the product of his teamates. It's more somewhere between the two. Price is great and had great teamates, especially when he had Markov and Subban playing in front of him. There's no Hart and there's no Vezina for Price without those two, but that doesn't take anything away from what he accomplished.
A good proof of this is that Pekka Rinne won his first Vezina with a Norris nominated Subban in front of him, just like Price in 2015. And yet Price was nominated for the Vezina with Markov and Weber in front of him.
What should this tell you? That Price is a great goalie and performs at a high level when he has the proper support, just like Rinne does. And that dmen like Subban, Markov and Weber (of 5 years ago) are as important and impactful.
In part, yes. He had a bad season, and his D was weaker and played differently. With the previous D core infront of him, he probably would have played better, but it probably wouldn’t be a career season.
Price has to up his game, and he has to adjust to his D. Hopefully, next year’s D will be better than last year’s D, which would certainly help out. Price on top top of his game, though, would go a longer way.
Which I said lower down I don't think he will do it, but stranger things have happened.
And Max, and Pleks, and DD, and AG, and BG, and all the players on a team because it takes a team to win. And maybe just maybe MT's defense first, dump and chase, shots from the permiter style of play helped Price out a bit. Consider that he also got Theo to win a Vezna and MAF had good season under him. So far under CJ Price has looked horrible.
So the team surrounding the goalie is important, and even if you took out Price but kept Markov/PK maybe put in a Holtby or MAF the habs could of done just as well and MT could of had the same record that he did?
How many times was it said here the Habs are a lottery team without Price (when we had Markov and PK). Its clear that you don't agree with that statement at the time today and you think that there was more to this team from 2012-2016 then just Price carrying everyone.
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Grate n Colorful Oz
Hutson Hawk
I've never agreed with it. Not just today. And again, I'm not the board. I've always disagreed with the notion it was Price alone. I've said this MANY times.
When Therrien was getting into trouble in 15-16, it was because of his inability to adapt and see what were the strenghts of his team. That's the moment when he should've been canned. A lot of friction in the lockeroom around that time and Therrien was probably central to it. Subban was probably scapegoated for talking out and taking a stance. Habs were good just 3 years prior with a very mediocre Price in 12-13 (that one I've repeated so often). The Price injury was an excuse, and was always among those who said this.
CauZuki
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2008
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Then we will be the team with the record for fewest goals allowed in history while still not qualifying for the playoffs.
I believe...
Not necessarily.
2015 Price's Vezna season the team let in 2 goals or less 51 games, Price had 44 of those with 37 wins.
Can he do it again with these D in front of him? Thats the 10.5 Million dollar question.
OldCraig71
Registered User
CauZuki
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2008
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Our offense keeps getting worse , especially when including offense generated by our D and Weber's injury.
I don't see where your argument shows how we plan on matching/outproducing the previous years where Price had elite stats. Essentially your scenario has everything going perfectly and even then I don't think it's enough to get us in. Finishing right outside the playoffs is by far the worst possible outcome.
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Dagistitsyn
Registered User
I think this is a playoff team if every move Bergevin made, never happened.
I am not making a prediction I am laying out the scenario where it would be possible for this team to make the playoffs.
thats the question of this thread, I think this team is a playoff team.... If Price does what he did in 2015 and lets in 2 or less in 44 games.
Thats the thing, if Price lets in 2 or less in 44 games and wins 37 of them we can get buy with a putrid offense. This teams roster sucks so the only way it can make the playoffs is by Price doing what he did in 2015 when he won the Vezna and Hart and picking up 37 wins where the team scores a max of 3 goals.
So my scenario for the team to make the playoffs as is the premise of this thread is for Price to play like he did in 2015 and to pick up 37 wins by letting in 2 goals or less. Thats the only way this roster with its offense has a shot at playoffs.
Anything is possible. If Hudon, Drouin, Domi, Lekhonen, Scherbak, Juulsen, Mete all develop to or close to their full-potential, it could very well happen.
The thing is, no team should ever rely on a large number of their younger players fulfilling their potentials in order to be competitive. This is a strategy that would lead to much success.
It could happen, for sure, it's likely it doesn't.
The thing is, no team should ever rely on a large number of their younger players fulfilling their potentials in order to be competitive. This is a strategy that would lead to much success.
It could happen, for sure, it's likely it doesn't.
CauZuki
Registered User
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But we won't win those games , since our offense is worse. You aren't accounting for the loss of offensive output and the other teams around us improving...
Also making the playoffs requires more points than previously , your scenario doesn't account for that either as well as being overly optimistic.
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If all those guys listed all have career years, we still won't make the playoffs. You aren't talking about guys reaching their potential of being 1st line talent. Really only Drouin is a 1st liner (potentially on the wing). He's a 5th liner at center.
OldCraig71
Registered User
What about our ability to score or defend?(and I just don't mean Price stopping pucks here) Shouldn't that be a part of the equation?
Well I don't think the team is going to score a lot this year so the only hope is for them to allow less than 2 goals a game. The team did it 51 times in 2015 during Prices Vezna/Hart season.
So to me the only shot this team has at making the playoffs is for Price to repeat that performance and win 37 games where he lets in 2 goals or less. If that doesn't happen the team doesn't have a chance to make the playoffs.
