I think the Wings have turned the corner

[ArGarBarGar]

I didn't say he picked the wrong players or that I knew better than the scouts who to pick but I do know I have never seen a Stanley Cup champ with zero center depth. Yzerman tanked and he didn't have luck at all. So what. We still need centers. So now he has declared that they're moving on. Trading for vet rentals to get a tiny bit better. We still don't have centers. He still has to address that. How are we turning the corner when we haven't gotten the pieces needed? Are we really confident that they're just going to grab an elite center late in the draft in the next year? If not then the rebuild has stalled.

What do you believe is a proper method to acquire a top center? Do you think the team should tank until they get it?

This is one of the quandaries of the Red Wings' situation. Yzerman's predecessor left the team a complete mess, and piece by piece Yzerman has been trying to carefully rebuild the team and acquire talent. Because their picks are still a bit away (Seider is going to be a rookie and Raymond probably next year?), it is hard to determine the best course of action, because its this no-man's land where you don't want to prolong a "rebuild" indefinitely but if they actually try to improve the roster to make it a contender and the few bluechip prospects that we have fail, then it will set the team back even further.

I honestly am not sure what the best direction for the team is.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

I think the burner count "The Oaf" is hilarious. Just not one shred of mystery for anyone who frequents this board.

 

[19 for president]

I'm terming what Yzerman is doing as "Controlled Tanking". He is intentionally trying to get high draft picks by not doing everything he can to improve the team. With that said he is also trying to not completely cut the legs out from under our young developing players to do it. He recognizes the value of team culture and a veteran presence. He isn't going to inflate team standings by signing a bunch of 2nd line/ 2nd pair veteran players via free agency, but he is also not going to ice a team without any veteran leadership to answer the hard questions when they lose and from which the young guys can learn.

He also values the freedom of having cap space. If you land a Mathews, Crosby, McDavid, Mackinnon level guy in the draft, you have to expect that they will be getting a huge cap hit on their 2nd contract. That means you have to make sure you have the cap space to sign those guys and still have some left over for the complimentary players. You have to invest in the right players and positions. So while Yzerman will sign a vet or two, he is pretty solidly sticking to one or two year deals, because we have to keep that space clear.

If the Wings get a little luck here, I think they can turn things around pretty quickly. We haven't gotten that luck thus far, by landing a spot to draft that star player. Maybe Seider's unexpected development will tip that scale and we can luck out a little next year where they are some excellent centers available. I mean as bad as we are, I'd feel worse if we wasted the chance to build a true contender if we are able to get a guy like Eichel/ McDavid/ Mathews.

I want to be the next Tampa or Boston not Buffalo/ Tor/ Edm, and that requires patience, foresight, and a some luck.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

But we don't have any of those types of players unless you're suggesting Holland did the heavy lifting and Larkin, Veleno, Rasmussen are top 3 centers on a cup team. I would have to disagree.
So going forward we apparently are giving up on the top of the draft. We're trading assets to get marginally better. That leaves luck and development as your strategy and that ain't happening fast especially when you're trading picks for rentals.

I would say that Dylan Larkin is a perfectly good 2nd Line C - I think given the right wingers, a competent defense, and not drawing the opponents best lines every shift - he is a very capable of being a 60pt+ two way C who can drive a line.

As for the 2nd part, I would argue that I am advocating exactly the opposite of "leaving it to luck and development" by advocating for trades like Leddy, which I know you and I are on the opposite sides of. Leddy is a guaranteed Top 4 Defenseman - the 2nd Rd pick we gave up for him is literally leaving it to luck. Similiarly with Suter, I think he could be a 3rd line C for us going forward, giving us another shot along with Veleno to develop a 3C in house, and we'll know pretty quick in the next two years if they are that or not.

I'm trying to meet you halfway here and take your opinions seriously, but I feel like you are maddeningly contradictory in your positions sometimes

 

[Revenge of Gru]

What do you believe is a proper method to acquire a top center? Do you think the team should tank until they get it?

This is one of the quandaries of the Red Wings' situation. Yzerman's predecessor left the team a complete mess, and piece by piece Yzerman has been trying to carefully rebuild the team and acquire talent. Because their picks are still a bit away (Seider is going to be a rookie and Raymond probably next year?), it is hard to determine the best course of action, because its this no-man's land where you don't want to prolong a "rebuild" indefinitely but if they actually try to improve the roster to make it a contender and the few bluechip prospects that we have fail, then it will set the team back even further.

I honestly am not sure what the best direction for the team is.

You are saying what I am saying only better. Near as I can tell you tanked for 4 years and got Zadina, Raymond, Seider and Edvinsson. I would wager that one is a bust and 1 is an undervalue for where they were picked. This is a very dangerous position to be in. Almost worst case scenario. That's why I believe we're 7-10 years away if we get lucky.
Now surprises could happen. Veleno could become a stud. Ras could explode but I wouldn't bet on it.
So let's assume that doesn't happen. We get marginally better next year and pick 8-11. What are the odds we get a franchise center who is ready in 3 years? Not good. Then what?

 

[Revenge of Gru]

I would say that Dylan Larkin is a perfectly good 2nd Line C - I think given the right wingers, a competent defense, and not drawing the opponents best lines every shift - he is a very capable of being a 60pt+ two way C who can drive a line.

As for the 2nd part, I would argue that I am advocating exactly the opposite of "leaving it to luck and development" by advocating for trades like Leddy, which I know you and I are on the opposite sides of. Leddy is a guaranteed Top 4 Defenseman - the 2nd Rd pick we gave up for him is literally leaving it to luck. Similiarly with Suter, I think he could be a 3rd line C for us going forward, giving us another shot along with Veleno to develop a 3C in house, and we'll know pretty quick in the next two years if they are that or not.

I'm trying to meet you halfway here and take your opinions seriously, but I feel like you are maddeningly contradictory in your positions sometimes

I agree with most of your post but there's no solution for a 1st line center and there lies the dilema.
Larkin isn't getting younger either. I just don't see a contendimg team in the pipeline right now and you don't rebuild through trades. Trades are for accents to your core and we don't have a core yet.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Whose burner account are you? I have a few guesses.

 

[The Zermanator]

If anyone has any theories on how to build a contender in today's NHL without getting some high picks, let's hear it. Otherwise what are you even arguing? Tanking is just a component of a rebuild, a necessary one. Because the rules of the draft are that the worst teams get the best picks. So you have to be bad to get those picks.

Look at the Stanley Cup champs of the cap era, almost every single one has a lottery pick on it. Crosby/Malkin, Toews/Kane, Stamkos/Hedman, Doughty, Niedermayer/Pronger, Staal. The only two exceptions are the 18-19 Blues and 10-11 Bruins. Though technically the Bruins did have several top 3 picks on the team, they just weren't their key players.

And you can barely even call what Yzerman has done tanking. He inherited a garbage team bloated with bad contracts, a well past-their-prime roster, and a bare prospect cupboard. He hasn't made the team any worse by his moves. In fact, additions like Fabbri have made the team better. The goaltending situation is better, and now there's a full cupboard of quality prospects. He has simply improved the team in other ways during this necessary time in the league's basement. The cap situation is solved, ready to be used when he gets the Wings to a point where they can use that cap space to complement the foundation he's built, rather than trying to buy a team which simply just doesn't work in the cap era.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

If anyone has any theories on how to build a contender in today's NHL without getting some high picks, let's hear it. Otherwise what are you even arguing? Tanking is just a component of a rebuild, a necessary one. Because the rules of the draft are that the worst teams get the best picks. So you have to be bad to get those picks.

Look at the Stanley Cup champs of the cap era, almost every single one has a lottery pick on it. Crosby/Malkin, Toews/Kane, Stamkos/Hedman, Doughty, Niedermayer/Pronger, Staal. The only two exceptions are the 18-19 Blues and 10-11 Bruins. Though technically the Bruins did have several top 3 picks on the team, they just weren't their key players.

And you can barely even call what Yzerman has done tanking. He inherited a garbage team bloated with bad contracts, a well past-their-prime roster, and a bare prospect cupboard. He hasn't made the team any worse by his moves. In fact, additions like Fabbri have made the team better. The goaltending situation is better, and now there's a full cupboard of quality prospects. He has simply improved the team in other ways during this necessary time in the league's basement. The cap situation is solved, ready to be used when he gets the Wings to a point where they can use that cap space to complement the foundation he's built, rather than trying to buy a team which simply just doesn't work in the cap era.

He tanked but didn't get the pieces you need to be a contender. His recent presser seemed to indicate that he's hoping to get star players late in the draft because tanking didn't work. I'm not sure what foundation you're talking about. Hr has the players Holland drafted and a bunch of placeholders that he signed. Seider is a sure bet top 4 defenseman. Raymond is a pretty sure bet top 6 winger. Where is this solid foundation?

 

[The Zermanator]

He tanked but didn't get the pieces you need to be a contender. His recent presser seemed to indicate that he's hoping to get star players late in the draft because tanking didn't work. I'm not sure what foundation you're talking about. Hr has the players Holland drafted and a bunch of placeholders that he signed. Seider is a sure bet top 4 defenseman. Raymond is a pretty sure bet top 6 winger. Where is this solid foundation?

The players leftover from the Holland era still make part of that foundation. They don't stop existing because there's a new GM. Yzerman has now trimmed virtually all of the considerable fat off the organization he inherited, while adding some great pieces himself. And he's going to have another good kick at the can at next year's draft, and possibly the following one too. That's several more top prospects that will be added in that span. And you don't know what Seider and Raymond will become. I would consider what you mentioned to be their floors at this point, one or both may far surpass that. Seider especially looks like he will.

I look at Larkin/Bertuzzi/Vrana/Zadina/Raymond/Berggren/Fabbri/Veleno/Rasmussen/Seider/Hronek/Johansson/Edvinsson/Nedeljkovic/Cossa and I see a great foundation to build on. The fact that promising prospects like Buium/Wallinder/McIsaac/Mastrosimone/Niederbach belong in an entirely different tier of conversation speaks volumes to the amount of quality that exists within the org now. That second list of players might as well be the Sprouls and Ouellet's that were exciting us almost a decade ago. Now they're just the B Team of Wings prospects. Now you add onto that another couple top 5-10 picks over the next two years, ideally a lottery pick next year, and that's now a stacked organization. Having that much high quality young talent means some of them are bound to find an elite gear. I really like the team that is shaping up, just a couple important pieces missing.

If you're going to take the positions you've been taking, you should really be able to pinpoint some moves you would have made over the last 2-3 seasons that would put the Wings in a better position today than what's described above. Presumably that must mean some trades and free agent signings. And you also have to keep in mind that if you do trade for some player, you have to give up something too. And you can choose some FA from the last few years to overpay, but you have to consider how much that player would have moved the needle. Do they make the team better enough to counteract the loss in draft position, meaning we may not have Seider, Raymond, or Edvinsson? Like I said, I really like what Yzerman's done to the team. I think he's done extremely well in navigating through the available options at any given time since his tenure began.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

The players leftover from the Holland era still make part of that foundation. They don't stop existing because there's a new GM. Yzerman has now trimmed virtually all of the considerable fat off the organization he inherited, while adding some great pieces himself. And he's going to have another good kick at the can at next year's draft, and possibly the following one too. That's several more top prospects that will be added in that span. And you don't know what Seider and Raymond will become. I would consider what you mentioned to be their floors at this point, one or both may far surpass that. Seider especially looks like he will.

I look at Larkin/Bertuzzi/Vrana/Zadina/Raymond/Berggren/Fabbri/Veleno/Rasmussen/Seider/Hronek/Johansson/Edvinsson/Nedeljkovic/Cossa and I see a great foundation to build on. The fact that promising prospects like Buium/Wallinder/McIsaac/Mastrosimone/Niederbach belong in an entirely different tier of conversation speaks volumes to the amount of quality that exists within the org now. That second list of players might as well be the Sprouls and Ouellet's that were exciting us almost a decade ago. Now they're just the B Team of Wings prospects. Now you add onto that another couple top 5-10 picks over the next two years, ideally a lottery pick next year, and that's now a stacked organization. Having that much high quality young talent means some of them are bound to find an elite gear. I really like the team that is shaping up, just a couple important pieces missing.

If you're going to take the positions you've been taking, you should really be able to pinpoint some moves you would have made over the last 2-3 seasons that would put the Wings in a better position today than what's described above. Presumably that must mean some trades and free agent signings. And you also have to keep in mind that if you do trade for some player, you have to give up something too. And you can choose some FA from the last few years to overpay, but you have to consider how much that player would have moved the needle. Do they make the team better enough to counteract the loss in draft position, meaning we may not have Seider, Raymond, or Edvinsson? Like I said, I really like what Yzerman's done to the team. I think he's done extremely well in navigating through the available options at any given time since his tenure began.

That's still just a list of prospects with a considerable absence of high quality centers. If you are assuming dome are bound to be elite then you also have to assume some will be busts. Yzerman is now trading picks for vets presumably to win more which very likely means picking later.
So leaping forward 3-4 years let's assume
Seider is a top pair guy
Raymond is a great winger
Cossa is a starting goalie
Berggren is Nyquist
Zadina is filling their nets
Rasmussen is decent
Veleno is okay
Hronek pretty good
Vrana is gone
Bert is gone
Leddy is gone
Fabbri is gone
Suter is gone
Staal gone
DDK gone
Ect...
Who are our centers that can lead us to contention? Who are you building around? Who is the face of the franchise? What is this teams identity?

I'm asking this in the context of the thread claiming that we're turning the corner. Personally I see another round of severe pain. Numerous players traded away including Vrana, Bert and Fabbri. Probably more.

 

[Astyanax]

LOL thanks for the clarification we got hosed in the lottery so many times I forgot Raymond was 4th. Its kind of crazy to fathom but we have only drafted in the top 5 twice in the last 20 years.

When and who was the other.

 

[PullHard]

mindfly?

 

[Henkka]

When and who was the other.

Keith Primeau?

 

[Snuggs]

I was just responding to “hasn’t made an effort to bring in core pieces”. Core pieces haven’t been available to make an effort to go get.

They could have gone out and signed guys like Danault or Hyman or David Savard… but you’re at a point of diminishing returns with those guys.

That’s the crux of my post. It’s hard for me to understand being that disappointed with only that specific part of the job when he made a move to try to add a core piece just this past draft.

The young, high end, desirable C hasn’t been there when they’ve picked in the draft nor have they come onto the UFA or trade markets without some massive bugaboo that is a nonstarter for people (see Eichel)

Nah there's been guys that have just gone by the way side and been available we "could" have been in the running for possibly like pierre luc dubois, jacob trouba, and the few others.

Problem is when I bring names up like this you'll just say we had no shot and I'll fire back they didn't give a real effort and now the argument stalls because neither of us know the truth, we arent in the room with Yzerman/staff we don't know what was and wasn't said.

And idk, my response back to you personally is I don't understand how you can say could understand my disappointment for this off-season so far in one post then 360 back and say you don't understand why I'm disappointed he hasn't added any core pieces, and I specifically said, outside the draft... Well like I said it was his first chance and he didn't do anything out of his normal moves.

I think I would of like to seen Danault signed this year with more moves made next year. Signing him could of gave the team two legitimate top lines for all our young wingers to play top six minutes on. But thats just me. Yzerman did a low risk high reward play is Suter which was almost gifted to him by Chicago imo.(Prolly should/could of just signed both) An this is my point. Red Wings could of gotten Danault/Suter but didn't even try for Danault and are seemlying ok with being a bad team by design(like you already said too) to attempt to draft well I guess. Seems like 1 more year of cap clearing/building through the draft before the teams spends some money.(Maybe)

Cossa/Neds are nice additions at goalie but way early to say they're core pieces. Cossa especially looks the part but... I mean no NHL games yet. Things can happen.

Was it ok to expect more this off-season, yeah it was, does it mean Yzerman did a bad job though cause he didn't, no it doesn't. Yzerman still has the rebuild pointed the right way. Red Wings are still primed to make a solid trade/signing any moment, so, the futures still good looking.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Nah there's been guys that have just gone by the way side and been available we "could" have been in the running for possibly like pierre luc dubois, jacob trouba, and the few others.

Problem is when I bring names up like this you'll just say we had no shot and I'll fire back they didn't give a real effort and now the argument stalls because neither of us know the truth, we arent in the room with Yzerman/staff we don't know what was and wasn't said.

And idk, my response back to you personally is I don't understand how you can say could understand my disappointment for this off-season so far in one post then 360 back and say you don't understand why I'm disappointed he hasn't added any core pieces, and I specifically said, outside the draft... Well like I said it was his first chance and he didn't do anything out of his normal moves.

I think I would of like to seen Danault signed this year with more moves made next year. Signing him could of gave the team two legitimate top lines for all our young wingers to play top six minutes on. But thats just me. Yzerman did a low risk high reward play is Suter which was almost gifted to him by Chicago imo.(Prolly should/could of just signed both) An this is my point. Red Wings could of gotten Danault/Suter but didn't even try for Danault and are seemlying ok with being a bad team by design(like you already said too) to attempt to draft well I guess. Seems like 1 more year of cap clearing/building through the draft before the teams spends some money.(Maybe)

Cossa/Neds are nice additions at goalie but way early to say they're core pieces. Cossa especially looks the part but... I mean no NHL games yet. Things can happen.

Was it ok to expect more this off-season, yeah it was, does it mean Yzerman did a bad job though cause he didn't, no it doesn't. Yzerman still has the rebuild pointed the right way. Red Wings are still primed to make a solid trade/signing any moment, so, the futures still good looking.

Trouba, sure we had a shot. We were one of a couple locations he wanted. But NY had a 1st they could give and we didn't. PLD? No, man, we didn't have any kind of remote chance at PLD. Do we have a Laine in our system? Hell, did we have a Jack Roslovic to add as a second piece? I can say with confidence that we did not have anywhere near the pieces (without trading futures we absolutely could not trade like an unprotected first or Seider or Larkin) to match Laine + Roslovic.

I can understand that you might feel disappointed. I don't agree with it, but I can see the reasoning by which you might be disappointed. I'm just not at all. I can see your point of view and disagree with it. That being said, I don't think there were any core pieces available this year. You'll say this about Danault because we didn't sign him. If we had and did at a 6y,5.5M deal, we'd be hearing about how he's so bust and we should bury him in Ken Holland's backyard in a couple years. The guys available in FA this year are not and never have been core pieces. Trade market in this offseason in terms of big time moves has been a bit muted with the exception of Jones to Chicago and that was a massive package that I think people would hate here.

But to end, that's my kind of point. If you think he did an alright job and the future is pointed in the right way... why are you upset that we didn't add middle-rung guys? The guys that were available that everyone is kvetching about are essentially Frans Nielsen by another name. Be disappointed by not adding a player, but be realistic and understand the type of player that you're actually upset about missing.

Phillip Danault Stats | Hockey-Reference.com
Frans Nielsen Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[ThankGord]

I think we could see some serious improvement if guys stay healthy and live up to their potential. We have a lot of skilled young forwards who have missed time, haven't had the proper support around them, or haven't had the opportunity to play top-six minutes. Adding Leddy and Seider should help to put them in a position to succeed as we've been terrible in transition the past few years. I think we'll be more competitive and see growth but still finish towards the bottom as our division is stacked and hopefully we finally get a little lottery love. If we don't get a high pick I could see a big splash in free agency or via trade to get a top-six center.

Seems like a pretty straight-forward, patient rebuilding process to me.

 

[Retire91]

When and who was the other.

Henkka is correct 1990 just before the Russian 5 landed in the US wings had a down season under .500 and got the 3rd overall. Keith Primeau who busted where he was picked but was eventually packaged in the Shanahan trade.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

That's still just a list of prospects with a considerable absence of high quality centers. If you are assuming dome are bound to be elite then you also have to assume some will be busts. Yzerman is now trading picks for vets presumably to win more which very likely means picking later.
So leaping forward 3-4 years let's assume
Seider is a top pair guy
Raymond is a great winger
Cossa is a starting goalie
Berggren is Nyquist
Zadina is filling their nets
Rasmussen is decent
Veleno is okay
Hronek pretty good
Vrana is gone
Bert is gone
Leddy is gone
Fabbri is gone
Suter is gone
Staal gone
DDK gone
Ect...
Who are our centers that can lead us to contention? Who are you building around? Who is the face of the franchise? What is this teams identity?

I'm asking this in the context of the thread claiming that we're turning the corner. Personally I see another round of severe pain. Numerous players traded away including Vrana, Bert and Fabbri. Probably more.

If you can foresee all this then you should use your powers to play the lotto instead of watching hockey.

I also think there's a high probability that guys like Fabbri, Vrana, Bert and Hronek are also dealt. But you're operating under the assumption that Yzerman is going to replace them with worse players, that the kids are all going to bust, that we're not going to sign free agents or make other trades to improve. And if that's the case then the Wings aren't rebuilding, they're conducting an exercise in futility.

Until Yzerman gives me reason to believe that he's not actively trying to improve the team for the present and future I'm going to remain optimistic about the team's future.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

If you can foresee all this then you should use your powers to play the lotto instead of watching hockey.

I also think there's a high probability that guys like Fabbri, Vrana, Bert and Hronek are also dealt. But you're operating under the assumption that Yzerman is going to replace them with worse players, that the kids are all going to bust, that we're not going to sign free agents or make other trades to improve. And if that's the case then the Wings aren't rebuilding, they're conducting an exercise in futility.

Until Yzerman gives me reason to believe that he's not actively trying to improve the team for the present and future I'm going to remain optimistic about the team's future.

I didn't say all the kids will be busts. I said some will because some will. It is inevitable. Nor did I say that Yzerman was going to trade for worse players. Most likely he trades most of them for futures such as draft picks because you don't trade good players for elite players and elite players in their prime are almost never moved.
Yzerman will definitely sign free agents. He does every year but he isn't signing elite centers. He is signing placeholders. We're nowhere near attracting high end free agents and Yzerman is too conservative to pay them if we could.
These are the reasons I don't see us turning the corner anytime soon. Peoplenseem to think you rebuild and contend in 3-4 years. 7-10 is more likely and that's if you get luck. We have been pretty unlucky.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

mindfly?

Mindfly has a more short and humorous style iirc from when we were both on LGW.


Out of curiosity whatever happened to Captain Bob? I remember that dude calling out HSJ on an article over not playing Tatar and that’s what brought me here to HF boards in the first place

 

[ShippinItDaily]

I didn't say all the kids will be busts. I said some will because some will. It is inevitable. Nor did I say that Yzerman was going to trade for worse players. Most likely he trades most of them for futures such as draft picks because you don't trade good players for elite players and elite players in their prime are almost never moved.
Yzerman will definitely sign free agents. He does every year but he isn't signing elite centers. He is signing placeholders. We're nowhere near attracting high end free agents and Yzerman is too conservative to pay them if we could.
These are the reasons I don't see us turning the corner anytime soon. Peoplenseem to think you rebuild and contend in 3-4 years. 7-10 is more likely and that's if you get luck. We have been pretty unlucky.

You sign placeholders who don't move the needle much and are easy to move on from until you have an emerging core of developed talent that you can supplement with free agents and players acquired in trades from other teams that are now in the bottom-out phase of their competitive cycle. That is why Suter is such a great signing. He also offers some nice potential upside, given his age and limited NHL experience.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

You sign placeholders who don't move the needle much and are easy to move on from until you have an emerging core of developed talent that you can supplement with free agents and players acquired in trades from other teams that are now in the bottom-out phase of their competitive cycle. That is why Suter is such a great signing. He also offers some nice potential upside, given his age and limited NHL experience.

I know why he is signing placeholders. However Suter is just another one and I don't consider signing mediocre placeholders to be "great signings". It's pretty easy to give money to players nobody wants. It isn't like some contender was offering Suter a 6 year deal. He was just happy to find a job after Chicago walked away. He racked up some points playing with Kane and Debrincat just like Abby racked up points playing with Pav. He's not a piece of the future. He's not very good. It is telling that Chicago isn't in the bottoming out phase. They're trying to get better. They let him walk for nothing.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

I know why he is signing placeholders. However Suter is just another one and I don't consider signing mediocre placeholders to be "great signings". It's pretty easy to give money to players nobody wants. It isn't like some contender was offering Suter a 6 year deal. He was just happy to find a job after Chicago walked away. He racked up some points playing with Kane and Debrincat just like Abby racked up points playing with Pav. He's not a piece of the future. He's not very good. It is telling that Chicago isn't in the bottoming out phase. They're trying to get better. They let him walk for nothing.

Lol. This is a perfect response for someone taking your general stance.

1) Chicago didn't qualify him because they were afraid of what he might get in arbitration, which is binding. A reward that would have been too high would have affected their other plans, of which they had many. Jones, Fleury, Johnson, etc. Whether they made the right decision or not is TBD.
2) On what basis can you confidently say that nobody wanted wanted Suter and that he was just happy to find a job? It's not like he was left waiting in the abyss until training camp to sign a PTO.
3) His underlying numbers were very solid last year. He is a solid player in his own right. Most people thought that Panarin was largely just a benefactor of playing with Kane when he won the Calder. Turns out he was much more than that. Suter produced at a much lower rate, but also with a much older Kane. It is not unreasonable to think that he isn't just the product of his star linemates and that his production is sustainable away from those players.

Signing Suter is trying to get better. It's better now and possibly further out into the future as well. The goal is to build a team with the highest ceiling as possible, not to try and max out in the short term with the much lower ceiling that acquiring UFA's and disenfranchised stars, or former stars, affords.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Lol. This is a perfect response for someone taking your general stance.

1) Chicago didn't qualify him because they were afraid of what he might get in arbitration, which is binding. A reward that would have been too high would have affected their other plans, of which they had many. Jones, Fleury, Johnson, etc. Whether they made the right decision or not is TBD.
2) On what basis can you confidently say that nobody wanted wanted Suter and that he was just happy to find a job? It's not like he was left waiting in the abyss until training camp to sign a PTO.
3) His underlying numbers were very solid last year. He is a solid player in his own right. Most people thought that Panarin was largely just a benefactor of playing with Kane when he won the Calder. Turns out he was much more than that. Suter produced at a much lower rate, but also with a much older Kane. It is not unreasonable to think that he isn't just the product of his star linemates and that his production is sustainable away from those players.

Signing Suter is trying to get better. It's better now and possibly further out into the future as well. The goal is to build a team with the highest ceiling as possible, not to try and max out in the short term with the much lower ceiling that acquiring UFA's and disenfranchised stars, or former stars, affords.

He signed a 2 year deal with one of the worst teams in the league and he's not in any way comparable to Panarin. That's absurd. He is a defensive liability who benefited from elite linemates. He'll be here less than 2 years and then be traded for a draft pick if there's a market. Offense only depth players generally don't attract much interest at the deadline.