I miss the 2010-11 leafs, and maca-grabo-kuli line

[SteveV*]

It was a great line, and I bet none of the detractors here now were saying ANYTHING that year. Silliness.

Too bad, there was nothing else around.

 

[bunjay]

And where's Washington in the standings in relation to the team with all those ****** Leafs again?

Hubris /ˈhjuːbrɪs/, also hybris, from ancient Greek ὕβρις, means extreme pride or arrogance. Hubris often indicates a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one's own competence, accomplishments or capabilities, especially when the person exhibiting it is in a position of power. Hubris is usually associated with the "simple-minded". The adjectival form of the noun hubris is "hubristic".

The leafs made the playoffs fir the first time in about a decade in a 48 game season and lost in the first round. The caps havent missed the playoffs since 2007. And yet here you are, crowing about having 2 more wins than them less than a quarter into the season....as if it has something to do with grabovski

And who said anything about "all thise ****** leafs?" For me personally there are a grand total of 3 players i dont like, two of them almost exclusively for their contracts.

 

[SteveV*]

I guess Tavares is a bum since his team has three less wins than that loser Grabo's Washington team. See how that works, good lord. Isles should waive him.

 

[Mr Scarface*]

I miss the Roberts - Sundin - Thomas line......... that line there is one of the best lines I've ever seen play national hockey league games in the playoffs. Ever. And they still didn't win the Cup. Anything can happen in the playoffs when teams play it out.

 

[HockeyGuy82]

And they played some parts last arson together.

Now 2/3 of the line is gone. We kept the useful one. Replaced the other two with better players (Raymond, Bolland)

I agree that Bolland is an upgrade for that role, but MacArthur is better then Raymond.

 

[topched]

It was a great line, and I bet none of the detractors here now were saying ANYTHING that year. Silliness.

Too bad, there was nothing else around.

Lol a great line.

The top scoring line on a terrible team is not a great line. Not a single player was ppg. 2/3 were average to below average defensive players.

My god we really do glorify mediocrity. Put Phil with Ashton and McClement and you've got an equally productive line

 

[GreekLeafer]

Games were more entertaining then. They usually are on all offence all the time type of teams. But I don't miss the 8-0 blowouts against Boston.

Toronto was 4-2 against Boston in 10-11. But 11-12 season however...

 

[GreekLeafer]

You never kick your no. 1 center for 1 season and promote your 3rd line center to become the 1st. That's the thing we are missing this year. Give Grabo the defense and goal tending we have this year and see the difference. His scoring ability was by far the best after Kessel's. Grabo always scored having defensemen around him that's not as easy as it seems.

Ahem, Lupul > Grabo

 

[topched]

I miss the Roberts - Sundin - Thomas line......... that line there is one of the best lines I've ever seen play national hockey league games in the playoffs. Ever. And they still didn't win the Cup. Anything can happen in the playoffs when teams play it out.

Wow at this too. Mats Sundin carrying two over the hill players on his back for 82 games. That's no where near a great line.

The team that won the cup that year had Forsberg/Tanguay-Sakic-Hejduk, Redwings had Shanahan-Yzerman-Holmstrom and the Stars had Hull-Modano-Lehtinen

So amusing that we crown these terrible lines as great. That was a single hall of famer with two has beens.

I always laugh when people comment on how good mogilny was here.... The guy was a shadow of what he was. Check the highlight reels

 

[happyaccident]

Lol a great line.

The top scoring line on a terrible team is not a great line. Not a single player was ppg. 2/3 were average to below average defensive players.

My god we really do glorify mediocrity. Put Phil with Ashton and McClement and you've got an equally productive line

 

[LeafOfBread]

Lol a great line.

The top scoring line on a terrible team is not a great line. Not a single player was ppg. 2/3 were average to below average defensive players.

My god we really do glorify mediocrity. Put Phil with Ashton and McClement and you've got an equally productive line

Eh, I'll give you MacArthur but both Grabo and Kulemin are solid defensively.

 

[dsf]

Loved that line but it was a flash in the pan and I don't miss losing.

 

[Mr Scarface*]

Wow at this too. Mats Sundin carrying two over the hill players on his back for 82 games. That's no where near a great line.

The team that won the cup that year had Forsberg/Tanguay-Sakic-Hejduk, Redwings had Shanahan-Yzerman-Holmstrom and the Stars had Hull-Modano-Lehtinen

So amusing that we crown these terrible lines as great. That was a single hall of famer with two has beens.

I always laugh when people comment on how good mogilny was here.... The guy was a shadow of what he was. Check the highlight reels

You are so wrong it's amazing. Not correct sir. At all.

Steve Thomas and Gary Roberts scored so many important goals during those great playoffs where we almost advanced to the finals. Here in this thread we are speaking only of LEAFS fine lines in the past. Starting with that Kulemin line in the title.

Of course there has been even better lines in the NHL than roberts- sundin - thomas, but this line here is one of the clearly best ever to dress in maple leafs uniform. I had the chance to see these guys play together a lot, so I wrote down them. I haven't seen all those great legends play in the 40's and 50's etc. But also that Gilmour line was great to see as well. But to me, that roberts - sundin - thomas line was even better. I thought they played even more smart and strong hockey overall than that Gilmour line in the 90's.

I also think that Joe Nieuwendyk led one fine line against all those ottawa series over 10 years ago and remember those games very well. I've always followed this sport and the whole team very closely and intensively. It really makes me hard.

 

[topched]

You are so wrong it's amazing. Not correct sir. At all.

Steve Thomas and Gary Roberts scored so many important goals during those great playoffs where we almost advanced to the finals. Here in this thread we are speaking only of LEAFS fine lines in the past. Starting with that Kulemin line in the title.

Of course there has been even better lines in the NHL than roberts- sundin - thomas, but this line here is one of the clearly best ever to dress in maple leafs uniform. I had the chance to see these guys play together a lot, so I wrote down them. I haven't seen all those great legends play in the 40's and 50's etc. But also that Gilmour line was great to see as well. But to me, that roberts - sundin - thomas line was even better. I thought they played even more smart and strong hockey overall than that Gilmour line in the 90's.

I also think that Joe Nieuwendyk led one fine line against all those ottawa series over 10 years ago and remember those games very well. I've always followed this sport and the whole team very closely and intensively. It really makes me hard.

I rarely missed a game in the late 90's early 2000's... sure that was the best line we had in that... decade? maybe... but in all honesty, it wasn't special. Roberts came out of what essentially was retirement #1 and had seen better days; Thomas as well. Sure they were "clutch", scored some goals in OT etc... but in the grand scheme of things I think those teams played well over their talent level. Sundin, Kaberle and Joseph, combined with the coaching of Quinn carried the rest of the baggage, like Perreault, Hoglund, Berezin etc. into relevance.

There's a reason so many of those players went on to have dismal careers elsewhere in the NHL. I think if there's one thing to say about those years its how much we undervalue those 3 guys. Sundin, Kaberle and Joseph were beloved, but man they really really carried us, looking back its pretty amazing.

Also... the bolded?

 

[MajorityRules*]

It was a great line, and I bet none of the detractors here now were saying ANYTHING that year. Silliness.

Too bad, there was nothing else around.

No it wasn't. It was a good line for 1 year and then unreliable the rest of the time it was together. In fact that line only succeeded the year Kulemin was able to pot 30 goals. Once he stumbled, the entire line became unsuccessful.

But hey, lets celebrate mediocre accomplishments.

 

[Mr Scarface*]

I rarely missed a game in the late 90's early 2000's... sure that was the best line we had in that... decade? maybe... but in all honesty, it wasn't special. Roberts came out of what essentially was retirement #1 and had seen better days; Thomas as well. Sure they were "clutch", scored some goals in OT etc... but in the grand scheme of things I think those teams played well over their talent level. Sundin, Kaberle and Joseph, combined with the coaching of Quinn carried the rest of the baggage, like Perreault, Hoglund, Berezin etc. into relevance.

There's a reason so many of those players went on to have dismal careers elsewhere in the NHL. I think if there's one thing to say about those years its how much we undervalue those 3 guys. Sundin, Kaberle and Joseph were beloved, but man they really really carried us, looking back its pretty amazing.

Also... the bolded?

I think Gary Roberts even played a fantastic hockey playoff run with the pittsburgh penguins in 2007-2008 season. He was maybe the best penguin on the ice (in the playoffs). Did his thing and scored some while at it. Really strong presence even many years after he played with Sundin. For some people it's about that inner strength and what makes them better than anybody. During these playoffs I remember one time Roberts was just sitting on the penguins bench and mumbling something to himself..... he really looked 1000 years old from the himalaya with his grey beard. It was amazing to see.

I sometimes over romanticize our old games and players in them. Memories are more important than the presence. That's what makes me so....

 

[Mess]

Perhaps Leafs team is missing Grabovski's energy that he brought game in and game out .

He was the energizer bunny and often sparked the Leafs through his dogged determination.

It seems to be missing this year for the most part.

 

[SteveV*]

Perhaps Leafs team is missing Grabovski's energy that he brought game in and game out .

He was the energizer bunny and often sparked the Leafs through his dogged determination.

It seems to be missing this year for the most part.

It is VERY noticeable in terms of offensive time decline, even when he wasn't scoring, Grabo's line spent a lot of time in THEIR end, people never quite appreciated that imho.

 

[Pitt the Elder]

Wow really? Any Leafs fan who misses something as mediocre as the Grabo/MacArthur/Kulemin line must not have experienced any Leaf success in their lives.

One of the most productive lines in the league = mediocre. Of course.


We need more of your excellent hockey analysis.

 

[Mess]

It is VERY noticeable in terms of offensive time decline, even when he wasn't scoring, Grabo's line spent a lot of time in THEIR end, people never quite appreciated that imho.

Puck possession and offense zone time certainly seems in decline with this years team over the past.

Grabs was a real dangler and when he has the puck the other team doesn't. Now it seems the Leafs are more a straight north -- south rush team and when the rush breaks down so does the offense at ES.

The former Grabovski line did run down the game clock with possession effectively reducing the shots against even when they themselves were not scoring.

 

[legendinblue]

I don't miss losing. The line was great when they all had career years. Not so much after that.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Mike Richards had only 44 points the year LA won the cup. This is the type of production with context we need on this team. A winning team.

Not 80 goal lines on a leaky team defensively, an often lotto team, that was just terrible.

The point here is systems teams play enhance players stats for poolies, and de-hance stats for teams that play winning hockey.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Puck possession and offense zone time certainly seems in decline with this years team over the past.

Grabs was a real dangler and when he has the puck the other team doesn't. Now it seems the Leafs are more a straight north -- south rush team and when the rush breaks down so does the offense at ES.

The former Grabovski line did run down the game clock with possession effectively reducing the shots against even when they themselves were not scoring.

I like what Nonis said about advanced stats yesterday, hard stats as opposed to analytics.

Possession stats are so over used in my opinion now, I just tune out when I hear them.

James Mirtle‏@mirtle2h
Dave Nonis on these new stats the fans/media keep bringing up: "As of right now, very few of them are worth anything to us."

James Mirtle‏@mirtle2h
Nonis says he likes looking at "hard stats" like ice time, goals, assists, points. Biggest thing they use is "going to watch a player play."

James Mirtle‏@mirtle2h
Nonis says analytics are big topic b/c fans and media. Adds they invent their own stats. "Is it relevant? That's where it's getting murky."

 

[Pitt the Elder]

Possession stats are so over used in my opinion now, I just tune out when I hear them.

Proud ignorance is a very ugly trait.

 

[Badger Mayhew*]

Says one of the homers that thinks the leafs' shot differential doesnt matter? Youre really stooping quite low to find somethings to criticize

But how about i humour you? Grabovskis corsi rating would put him at number one on the leafs amongst players with at least 10gp. His quality of competition is third amongst caps forwards and fourth overall.

Wow, this is some serious spin

It's cute that you're using 10gp as a qualifier, because it lets you ignore Clarkson, who has dominated possession since he started playing.

It's also cute that you're using 5 on 5 instead of 5 on 5 close when evaluating a player's Corsi. Score effects result in misleading data, which is why 5 on 5 close is almost always used instead of 5 on 5.

Grabovski's Corsi (5 on 5 Close) is 45.4%. Putting him below Clarkson, Kadri, Ashton, Bolland and Gardiner. So he'd actually only be the third best center on the team from a possession standpoint. Grabovski also starts more shifts in the offensive zone than any of these players and is on a team with a better Corsi in the first place, inflating his numbers.

Grabovski had a 42.8% Corsi (5 on 5 Close) last year. His skills as a possession forward have always been overrated, and he needs a strong possession forward to compensate (Hagman, MacArthur, etc).