I miss the 2010-11 leafs, and maca-grabo-kuli line

[Joey Hoser]

Are you serious? Who glorifies Bozak? Guy gets **** on constantly and we have two threads on the front page about how overpaid Clarkson is.

 

[happyaccident]

Mike Richards had only 44 points the year LA won the cup. This is the type of production with context we need on this team. A winning team.

Not 80 goal lines on a leaky team defensively, an often lotto team, that was just terrible.

The point here is systems teams play enhance players stats for poolies, and de-hance stats for teams that play winning hockey.

The Kings are a defensive juggernaut, they'll go for weeks with ridiculous GA . If Randy could ever achieve that kind of stingy game here, I'd be the first guy to send the goodbye forever card to guys like Grabovski and MacArthur. Instead, they make the choice to to "supplement" our lineup with guys who can't score but are supposed to bring "intangibles" and we're as big a mess defensively as ever. Guys keep talking intangibles and building a winning "system", lets see this great so called system that justifies the ludicrous caphit. Not to mention choosing not to buyout a defenseman who is going to spend all his time in the A and in the press box.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The Kings are a defensive juggernaut, they'll go for weeks with ridiculous GA . If Randy could ever achieve that kind of stingy game here, I'd be the first guy to send the goodbye forever card to guys like Grabovski and MacArthur. Instead, they make the choice to to "supplement" our lineup with guys who can't score but are supposed to bring "intangibles" and we're as big a mess defensively as ever. Guys keep talking intangibles and building a winning "system", lets see this great so called system that justifies the ludicrous caphit. Not to mention choosing not to buyout a defenseman who is going to spend all his time in the A and in the press box.

I pointed Richards out simply to illustrate how a player's stats can vary from system to system. And really it depends on what type of team a player plays on.

There is no value making these stats arguments without some context. Too inaccurate, too simple, too misleading.

 

[Joey Hoser]

If Randy could ever achieve that kind of stingy game here, I'd be the first guy to send the goodbye forever card to guys like Grabovski and MacArthur. Instead, they make the choice to to "supplement" our lineup with guys who can't score but are supposed to bring "intangibles" and we're as big a mess defensively as ever.

We're fourth in the league in goals against.

 

[happyaccident]

We're fourth in the league in goals against.

If you look at GA/G, we're not 4th but still pretty good. But that's because of ridiculous goaltending or a tight defensive system? If you think this team plays well defensively, all I can say is that I'm glad you're enjoying it.

 

[Joey Hoser]

If you look at GA/G, we're not 4th but still pretty good. But that's because of ridiculous goaltending or a tight defensive system? If you think this team plays well defensively, all I can say is that I'm glad you're enjoying it.

Well, all I hear is that our goalies only look so good because our defence only allows low-percentage shots from the outside.

So the defence only looks good because of the goalies, and the goalies only look good because of the defence. I love how when it comes to the Leafs, even if they are good, they are bad.

 

[SteveV*]

Proud ignorance is a very ugly trait.

Possession stats are incredibly important, ask the Detroit Red Wings. If you don't understand this basic fact about hockey, then file any subsequent analysis under G. Why do people think Carlyle places such a premium on faceoffs? If you're tuning out that stat, you should be tuned out

 

[Mr Scarface*]

Got a comment on that grabovski energy last season and compared to this season.
David Bolland who was brought in for grabovski has more going on with that "silent killer type" energy comparing to grabovski's pretty uncpredictable behaviour. Bolland just goes does and delivers. Grabovski played more quicker game with that neck down movement going on. Head down skating, that's different type of game compared to bolland's straight up silent type killer ****. Bolland playes more straight back game, and grabovski skates neck and head down. Different type of energy totally. I respected grabovski's energy too, was real nice. Bolland I like too a lot.

 

[SteveV*]

I love Bolland.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I get that the team is in a mini slump but christ OP RELAX l

 

[bunjay]

Well, all I hear is that our goalies only look so good because our defence only allows low-percentage shots from the outside.

So the defence only looks good because of the goalies, and the goalies only look good because of the defence. I love how when it comes to the Leafs, even if they are good, they are bad.

I think if you've been watching it's pretty obvious which it is. Our defense has been allowing a huge number of breakaways and 2-on-1s, blown coverage right around the net and in the slot several times per night. Our goalies look so good because they are so good. We have one solid defensive pairing in Phaneuf and Gunnarsson and then there's a drastic dropoff.

No it wasn't. It was a good line for 1 year and then unreliable the rest of the time it was together. In fact that line only succeeded the year Kulemin was able to pot 30 goals. Once he stumbled, the entire line became unsuccessful.

But hey, lets celebrate mediocre accomplishments.

Funny how a few people actually think it was anybody but Grabovski driving that line's success. Kulemin fell off the face of the planet and the other two thirds of that line performed much better the next season DESPITE Kulemin dragging everybody around him down with his awful play. Grabovski did best with 23g+28a in 74 games, and after a down year is back to performing at a high level. Kulemin, you'll notice, still hasnt remembered how to generate offense.

Wow, this is some serious spin

It's cute that you're using 10gp as a qualifier, because it lets you ignore Clarkson, who has dominated possession since he started playing.

It's also cute that you're using 5 on 5 instead of 5 on 5 close when evaluating a player's Corsi. Score effects result in misleading data, which is why 5 on 5 close is almost always used instead of 5 on 5.

Grabovski's Corsi (5 on 5 Close) is 45.4%. Putting him below Clarkson, Kadri, Ashton, Bolland and Gardiner. So he'd actually only be the third best center on the team from a possession standpoint. Grabovski also starts more shifts in the offensive zone than any of these players and is on a team with a better Corsi in the first place, inflating his numbers.

Grabovski had a 42.8% Corsi (5 on 5 Close) last year. His skills as a possession forward have always been overrated, and he needs a strong possession forward to compensate (Hagman, MacArthur, etc).

It's pretty standard to exclude stats under a certain number of games played, why would you think it's cute? And since when was Hagman a strong possession forward? "Corsi close?" Sure, let's take a tenuous statistic and further reduce it to find the numbers we want to see And then adding a defenseman to the comparison? And then ignore that none of the Leafs' three best players have better numbers in the category you cherrypicked? You do realize that Corsi is essentially a glorified version of +/- that counts missed and blocked shots, right?

 

[Badger Mayhew*]

It's pretty standard to exclude stats under a certain number of games played, why would you think it's cute? And since when was Hagman a strong possession forward? "Corsi close?" Sure, let's take a tenuous statistic and further reduce it to find the numbers we want to see And then adding a defenseman to the comparison? And then ignore that none of the Leafs' three best players have better numbers in the category you cherrypicked? You do realize that Corsi is essentially a glorified version of +/- that counts missed and blocked shots, right?

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. 5v5 Score Close is now the standard when determining how a team or player does in terms of possession (as opposed to just 5v5).

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2012/1/23/2722089/score-adjusted-fenwick

It's the default setting on ExtraSkater for a reason:
http://www.extraskater.com/teams/on-ice?type=total

Do your research before making ignorant comments, kid