OT: Hypothetical: Who would you use a compliance buyout on.

[jaffy27]

Well that’s when you make that move if it’s still needed.

I have a hard time believing the owner signs a buyout cheque for a team that has no aspirations to compete in the short term.

You buy out a player because you want to re-allocate that money elsewhere. Not because you think he’s overpaid.

But I realize the point of this thread is just to play the hypothetical, so in that sense, Joel Armia is the most logical one IMO.

This is the bigger point, no need to buyout players if youre not planning to compete.

If anything it hurts your chances down the road when you do want to compete and are up against the cap as the years of the contract double hence carrying that cap hit in your contending window.

Habs by default will not be very good next year or the next, so why buy anyone out? Save on the cap that we’re not gonna use? Even if we wanted we are not attracting top UFA’s for the next two summer’s.

 

[jaffy27]

Is Nashville on the hook for Webs contract? thought I read that somewhere..

If he retires…..yes

 

[jaffy27]

Gallagher's longshot ceiling at this point in his career is a 3rd line agitator. Basically we are paying him $5m too much. So whatever the cap is, we will effectively ice a team that is valued at $10m less than the cap ceiling (incl prices contract overpayment)

We are in rebuilding mode so it really doesn’t matter this year or the next and possibly the next.

We can worry a out Gally’s contract in 3yrs from now

 

[417]

This is the bigger point, no need to buyout players if youre not planning to compete.

If anything it hurts your chances down the road when you do want to compete and are up against the cap as the years of the contract double hence carrying that cap hit in your contending window.

Habs by default will not be very good next year or the next, so why buy anyone out? Save on the cap that we’re not gonna use? Even if we wanted we are not attracting top UFA’s for the next two summer’s.

I don’t think they’re going to be good next year, but I expect some progress (which is a good thing IMO), the year after though.

I think that’s when HuGo are going to want to make this team viable again. So that’s why I original said, buyouts is something I’d consider at the conclusion of NEXT season.

 

[Toene]

Nah we're definitely idiots too. The reddit fanbase are too optimistic, here we're 100% cynicism. It just so happens that bad things happen in life more often than good so we look right more often.

Reddit is pure cancer. Not just the Habs board. Every "negative" criticism is downvoted to oblivion. You're labeled as "toxic" because of your perceived tone.
HFboards imo is too heavily moderated sometimes but at least we don't have the atrocious up/downvote circlejerk system.

 

[Habs]

If he retires…..yes

he should be?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This is the bigger point, no need to buyout players if youre not planning to compete.

If anything it hurts your chances down the road when you do want to compete and are up against the cap as the years of the contract double hence carrying that cap hit in your contending window.

Habs by default will not be very good next year or the next, so why buy anyone out? Save on the cap that we’re not gonna use? Even if we wanted we are not attracting top UFA’s for the next two summer’s.

Agreed. In the coming year I’d look to take on bad short term deals as long as picks/prospects come back the other way.

 

[jaffy27]

he should be?

If Weber retires, Nashville is responsible for his cap (i believe the cap gets modified though but its still high)

 

[themilosh]

We are in rebuilding mode so it really doesn’t matter this year or the next and possibly the next.

We can worry a out Gally’s contract in 3yrs from now

Pretty much.. during our rebuild we will need to have a couple of immovable contracts to simply accept. So long as gallagher is not taking ice time away from our youth im fine with him getting 13min a night.
Price is better than anything we have in net, so im fine with him playing 40 games/season.

 

[Treb]

Disagree with Anderson so not worth the money and term he got. And would not waste it on Weber given he just goes on LTIR.

How much would you pay a 20-25 goals 40ish points physical winger?

Even though Weber's deal goes on LTIR, it does complicate our Cap dealings.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Gallagher without hesitation. What would a buyout look like if we gave him one more year?

 

[beowulf]

How much would you pay a 20-25 goals 40ish points physical winger?

Even though Weber's deal goes on LTIR, it does complicate our Cap dealings.

Except he has not done that yet with the Habs and only once with the Jackets. His hockey IQ has been shown to be lacking.

So yes his per game totals would have brought him to 26 goals last year but only 38 points and then his production was even worse in the playoffs. And so far this year his is playing at a clip for 23 goals and 36 points...so while he would have met your goals, possibly he is so bloody streaky, neither yet has his PPG good enough to reach 40 points. So no he is not worth a 7 year deal at $5.5M.

People complain about Gallagher but he has at least produced in the past which is what led to him getting this contract. I would have preferred about 2 years less personally but that's Bergevin for you. And if we look at Anderson's per game production and what it might have been over 82 games well then we have to look at Gallagher's which are 33 goals and 54 points last season and 10 goals and 22 points this year. So ya this year he has been unable to produce but I am way less issue with his contract over Anderson's.

 

[Treb]

Except he has not done that yet with the Habs and only once with the Jackets. His hockey IQ has been shown to be lacking.

So yes his per game totals would have brought him to 26 goals last year but only 38 points and then his production was even worse in the playoffs. And so far this year his is playing at a clip for 23 goals and 36 points...so while he would have met your goals, possibly he is so bloody streaky, neither yet has his PPG good enough to reach 40 points. So no he is not worth a 7 year deal at $5.5M.

People complain about Gallagher but he has at least produced in the past which is what led to him getting this contract. I would have preferred about 2 years less personally but that's Bergevin for you. And if we look at Anderson's per game production and what it might have been over 82 games well then we have to look at Gallagher's which are 33 goals and 54 points last season and 10 goals and 22 points this year. So ya this year he has been unable to produce but I am way less issue with his contract over Anderson's.

The question I asked was not if Anderson is worth 5.5M, but how much would you pay for Anderson?

 

[beowulf]

The question I asked was not if Anderson is worth 5.5M, but how much would you pay for Anderson?

I would have given him something similar to what Domi got a such as a 2 year deal around $4.5 to 5M cap hit at most. Show me you can actually produce consistently in the NHL before I give you more money and term.

 

[LeHab]

Gallagher for sure. Price will LTIRetire in two or 3 years.

 

[Treb]

I would have given him something similar to what Domi got a such as a 2 year deal around $4.5 to 5M cap hit at most. Show me you can actually produce consistently in the NHL before I give you more money and term.

So wasting a compliance buyout for 0.5 to 1 million overpaid?

We make more gain on Gallagher. They both have 5 years left, but Anderson is 2 years younger.

Anderson is also very tradeable if you don't want him.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Pretty much.. during our rebuild we will need to have a couple of immovable contracts to simply accept. So long as gallagher is not taking ice time away from our youth im fine with him getting 13min a night.
Price is better than anything we have in net, so im fine with him playing 40 games/season.

I'd be willing to take the dead cap space just to not have to watch him fall into the net and miss shots that my wife could bury for the next 5 years

 

[Gravity]

Who the hell voted for Suzuki?

 

[Redux91]

How Gallagher isnt in the 90%'s is beyond me lol

 

[Redux91]

Who the hell voted for Suzuki?

Click on the "2" lol

 

[Treb]

Who the hell voted for Suzuki?

Two people who don't post a lot and haven't tried to explain their choices because they did it to trigger people.

 

[ReHabs]

We are in rebuilding mode so it really doesn’t matter this year or the next and possibly the next.

We can worry a out Gally’s contract in 3yrs from now

Even if the rebuild takes three years, what does it mean to the Habs ability to maneuver the market when it has so many cap inefficiencies? The Habs will need to give raises to Caufield and others by then. Cap space is always useful. I can imagine in two or so years the Habs are at the cusp of being serious but cannot sign that middle 6er they want because they're burning 16.5m on Price and Gallagher + 7.8m on Weber on LTIR.

The Habs should worry about the awful contracts Begevin doled out today, tomorrow, and every day until the situation is resolved. Bergevin left a massive turd and didn't flush, he left around eight turds actually.

 

[beowulf]

So wasting a compliance buyout for 0.5 to 1 million overpaid?

We make more gain on Gallagher. They both have 5 years left, but Anderson is 2 years younger.

Anderson is also very tradeable if you don't want him.

We would not have worried about compliance had he only got a 2 deal like he should have from the start. So you can say overpaid by 500K to 1M but I say he is overpaid by $27.5M. right now. But again I said Gallagher and maybe Anderson as I don't think Gallagher should have been giving 7 years either.

 

[Treb]

We would not have worried about compliance had he only got a 2 deal like he should have from the start. So you can say overpaid by 500K to 1M but I say he is overpaid by $27.5M. right now. But again I said Gallagher and maybe Anderson as I don't think Gallagher should have been giving 7 years either.

As I mentioned, Gallagher is my first choice as well. I think we can get a player similar to what he has been since last year POs (or in the POs in general) for less money or at least younger. The thought of 6.5M AAV mid 30s Gallagher currently scare me. I have to mention Gallagher is one of my favorite Hab since I started following for real around 2009.

Weber is dead LTIR space, but would open our offseason/bonus flexibility.

We could save a bit of money of money on Hoffman, Savard and Armia, but their replacement would only cost slightly less.

Drouin and Byron expire after next year and are thus prime candidate for a retention deal that could bring actual value.

Petry and Dvorak have actual value even at their salary and could be traded even with term left.

We won't get a goalie better than/equal to Price in UFA, so that would mean pure tanking and hoping one of Primeau/Dobes/Dichow/Vrbetic can be a bona fide contender starter by 2023-2024 which is getting doubtful. Either that or take a shot on Kuemper/Campbell/Holtby this year or Andersen/Varlamov/Jarry next year (if they make it). Many team have been goalie stuck for years.

My reasoning about Anderson is that we wouldn't really save much cap (if any) if we were to bring in a similar player. Power forward 20+ goal type also don't often go to FA and when they do, they fetch a big contract that ends up an overpayment (see JVR).

Finally, Suzuki is already worth his money when compared to other C signed recently and has the potential to eventually be a steal at that salary.

 

[beowulf]

As I mentioned, Gallagher is my first choice as well. I think we can get a player similar to what he has been since last year POs (or in the POs in general) for less money or at least younger. The thought of 6.5M AAV mid 30s Gallagher currently scare me. I have to mention Gallagher is one of my favorite Hab since I started following for real around 2009.

Weber is dead LTIR space, but would open our offseason/bonus flexibility.

We could save a bit of money of money on Hoffman, Savard and Armia, but their replacement would only cost slightly less.

Drouin and Byron expire after next year and are thus prime candidate for a retention deal that could bring actual value.

Petry and Dvorak have actual value even at their salary and could be traded even with term left.

We won't get a goalie better than/equal to Price in UFA, so that would mean pure tanking and hoping one of Primeau/Dobes/Dichow/Vrbetic can be a bona fide contender starter by 2023-2024 which is getting doubtful. Either that or take a shot on Kuemper/Campbell/Holtby this year or Andersen/Varlamov/Jarry next year (if they make it). Many team have been goalie stuck for years.

My reasoning about Anderson is that we wouldn't really save much cap (if any) if we were to bring in a similar player. Power forward 20+ goal type also don't often go to FA and when they do, they fetch a big contract that ends up an overpayment (see JVR).

Finally, Suzuki is already worth his money when compared to other C signed recently and has the potential to eventually be a steal at that salary.

I so wish Anderson could be a power forward that scored 25+ a season with as many assists but he has not shown that he can with consistency and I am thinking he never will. So yes Gallagher would likely be the best buyout but, for me at least, Anderson would be not far behind. As you said, for Petry I think there is value and I think he will rebound to close to what he has been the last few years. Maybe not as big a point producer but he can get close. If he was not so injured the last 2 years I might think Gallagher could get back over 25 goals and 50 points but alas with his injuries and age I don't think he can even if his heart wants to.