Post-Game Talk: Hyman the only Leaf to show up as Leafs lose 8-4

[hoglund]

I don't agree. Entire team played like **** until Florida let up on us when the game was over at 7-1.

If the goaltenders were switched we still lose that game.

People making excuses for this team performance by blaming the goalies drive me crazy. You really think that effort out of our skaters will win a playoff round?

Both goalies played bad, that was my point, they did switch goalies. I agree that the defense wasn't the greatest, but overall they did out shoot Florida, that can't be denied. You could argue that many of the Leaf's shots weren't quality ones, many of Florida's goals were far from quality goals.

 

[hoglund]

Don’t agree .. this isn’t a goalie struggling .. this is a team that only cares about offence .. 10 2 on 1 ,s in one game and your saying the goalies need to step up ? Leafs are only good when Anderson stands on his head .. been this way for long time .. doesn’t help when keefe says I need to let these players have freedom .. by doing so it turns into a shiny game with no structure .. hence brutal defensive lapses

The shinny game only started because the Leafs were down a bunch and started to play dangerously in desperate need for goals, this wouldn't have happened if Andersen was playing his normal self.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I'm not saying Freddy was good, or even decent. He was bad, so was Hutch. But goaltending was just one of multiple problems, not the only one as people keep pretending.

Few goaltenders would've been able to save the Leafs last night.

I agree, that goal tending was not the only problem. IMO it was the biggest problem.

Leafs would have a bunch of pressure and shots against Florida, then the Panthers get one break and it's in the back of the net. Really demoralizing.

I don't agree with your last statement. Plenty of goalie's could have won that game for the Leafs.

For example Georgiev (Rangers backup) has done that to the Leafs multiple times, in games that the leafs dominated way more then the Panthers did last night.

The team wasn't even outplayed, Goalies on 1 side made saves, unfortunately on Leafs side didn't.

 

[ULF_55]

Leafs blanked the Panthers for the last 15 minutes of the game.

Well done!

 

[ACC1224]

Leafs @ Panthers, Sunday 7pm

Need to score 4 or 5 nightly regardless of the opponent.

Looks like I was half right.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I'm not saying Freddy was good, or even decent. He was bad, so was Hutch. But goaltending was just one of multiple problems, not the only one as people keep pretending.

Few goaltenders would've been able to save the Leafs last night.

With league average goaltending, I think we have a 4-4 game. But like you said, that's not particularly good. I wouldn't agree that just a few goaltenders would have saved us, but they are definitely not the only ones to blame. It's just easy to find issues everywhere when everything ends up in the net. Gauthier were a spectator up close on their second goal, but would we have even taken note if Andersen had made what should have been a routine save?

But I do agree to a certain extent. People use xGF against to put this on the goaltenders, but like many other stats it's just effective in a large sample. I'd say that in this particular game, the chances they got were significantly more dangerous than their xGF indicates. They had lots of time for the finishes, there were traffic, they moved the puck laterally before the finish, they had options that our goalies had to respect.

Deangelo has 36 points in 44 games, Reilly has 27 in 46 games . . . I doubt you'd like the price you'd have to pay to get him and Georgiev.

DeAngelo is also a brutal player in his own zone, and a type of person I wouldn't want on my team. They can keep him.

 

[ULF_55]

On the first goal, I was less than thrilled with Holl's nonchalant skating on what would have been an icing. Rielly did this earlier this season.

Need someone on defense who plays with urgency leading the way.

They often lack urgency until they're fighting an uphill battle.

 

[leeroggy]

DeAngelo is also a brutal player in his own zone, and a type of person I wouldn't want on my team. They can keep him.

Sounds like he'd fit right in

 

[MyBudJT]

That was fun.

This was a combination of really poor defensive work by our forwards combined with atrocious goaltending. Yes we gave up good chances. Goaltenders are paid to stop the vast majority of those. Ours didn't. We talk about the issue of having a weak backup. Well, the bigger issue is that we have had a below average starter this season.

A couple of players can walk out of this game with their head held high. Hyman in particular, but Marner as well. Nylander and Engvall were fine as well, along with Ceci on defense. A lot of players who should be ashamed of their effort.

Why am I not surprised....?

 

[Gabriel426]

Isn't that so weird? Since Freddie has been here everyone says he is at his best when he's facing lots of shots, and playing lots of games.

Problem is we can't afford to play him too much at the cost of burning him out come playoff time, where he has always laid an egg during crucial moments in series. Coupled with no real backup goalie the Leafs are now forced to play Freddie a tonne.

Everyone says go spend assets on a backup goalie, but if Freddie is to be steady then he ideally wants to play every game, because that is when "he's at his best".

What would you do if you were Keefe? Would you play him more, trade for a backup, or play Hutch?

Play him like starting pitcher in Baseball. If the team is comfortable by the 3rd, send Hutch in to finish the game.
For real. It is really the age long debate of the more you play the better you are or more rest = better performance.

 

[Mess]

I pointed out how close statistically these two teams were before the game last night as they battle for a playoff spot ..

Team Stats after the game.

Toronto ... 46 games .. 24 wins 16 losses 6 OTL = 54 points .... Goals For: 166 .. Goals Against: 153 .. Goal Differential: +13 .. Last 10 games: 6-2-2

Florida .... 45 games .. 24 wins 16 losses 5 OTL = 53 points ..... Goals For: 166 .. Goals Against 152 ... Goal Differential: +14 .. Last 10 games 6-4-0

Its like looking in a mirror.

 

[egd27]

The D needs to stop pinching so much, not every situation is a pinching situation...D needs to concentrate on playing defense first.

Unless of course they're on a 10 game point streak. Then the "active D" is an amazing strategy implemented by the most brilliantest coach to ever coach.

 

[Cor]

Wonder if we give Freddy the start against the Devils now. Try and get his game back on track. Though they just did beat Tampa Bay.......

 

[Antropovsky]

Isn't that so weird? Since Freddie has been here everyone says he is at his best when he's facing lots of shots, and playing lots of games.

Problem is we can't afford to play him too much at the cost of burning him out come playoff time, where he has always laid an egg during crucial moments in series. Coupled with no real backup goalie the Leafs are now forced to play Freddie a tonne.

Everyone says go spend assets on a backup goalie, but if Freddie is to be steady then he ideally wants to play every game, because that is when "he's at his best".

What would you do if you were Keefe? Would you play him more, trade for a backup, or play Hutch?

Cujo was notorious for playing better with heavy shots, opposed to less shots. He shined in Edmonton and Toronto but was not as hot in Detroit under a better team.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Sounds like he'd fit right in

We shouldn't collect them, you know.

 

[Dragao6]

I pointed out how close statistically these two teams were before the game last night as they battle for a playoff spot ..

Team Stats after the game.

Toronto ... 46 games .. 24 wins 16 losses 6 OTL = 54 points .... Goals For: 166 .. Goals Against: 153 .. Goal Differential: +13 .. Last 10 games: 6-2-2

Florida .... 45 games .. 24 wins 16 losses 5 OTL = 53 points ..... Goals For: 166 .. Goals Against 152 ... Goal Differential: +14 .. Last 10 games 6-4-0

Its like looking in a mirror.

On paper yes haha

Man I just feel bad if there were fans that made the trip to Florida to purposely go to the game...ouch

 

[Nithoniniel]

Why am I not surprised....?

Good question, since I've had no issue calling him brutal previously in my PGT grades.

 

[Al14]

Folks, our starting goalie is a problem.
Every team gives up chances, but they get a save too. We don't from our "MVP".

When are the Andersen worshipers going to actually see this as a problem?

 

[MarnerElite]

Both goalies played bad, that was my point, they did switch goalies. I agree that the defense wasn't the greatest, but overall they did out shoot Florida, that can't be denied. You could argue that many of the Leaf's shots weren't quality ones, many of Florida's goals were far from quality goals.

I never understood this type of thinking..So quality of shots doesn't matter? You'd rather have 50 shots where 40+ come from mostly bad angles, point, long distance, etc and the other team has around 25-30 shots where at least 15 are high danger chances(we gave them a ton of space last night)? Makes no sense at all. Quality of shots does matter and Florida scored the first 4 goals from literally few feet away with no one around to take their player.

 

[BertCorbeau]

There’s more to the team’s defensive issues than the advanced stats are indicating, that’s for sure.

Averaging around 4 GA per game over the last 9, and still in the bottom 10 in GA/game and it hasn’t really changed under Keefe.

The offense has been unleashed and looks more dangerous but it exposes an already problematic blue line with a struggling goalie.

Not a long term recipe for success

 

[Mess]

Only 3 teams Detroit (170 GA), Ottawa (154) & NJ (156) have given up more goals against this season than our Leafs 153 and those teams sit 31st, 30th and 28th in the overall standings.

If not for our offense being able to outscore our mistakes and defensive breakdowns, we might also be joining them as its hard to see long-term success when you have a bottom 5 league defense.

Its a high risk game you play when you enter games to mask your defensive weaknesses, by simply believing your offensive talent can compensate consistently. IMO

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Good question, since I've had no issue calling him brutal previously in my PGT grades.

I think he meant he's not surprised Nylander had a fine game, as he's one of our best players. Anything else would be ridiculous to say

 

[Mess]

There’s more to the team’s defensive issues than the advanced stats are indicating, that’s for sure.

Averaging around 4 GA per game over the last 9, and still in the bottom 10 in GA/game and it hasn’t really changed under Keefe.

The offense has been unleashed and looks more dangerous but it exposes an already problematic blue line with a struggling goalie.

Not a long term recipe for success

Only 3 teams Detroit (170 GA), Ottawa (154) & NJ (156) have given up more goals against this season than our Leafs 153 and those teams sit 31st, 30th and 28th in the overall standings.

If not for our offense being able to outscore our mistakes and defensive breakdowns, we might also be joining them as its hard to see long-term success when you have a bottom 5 league defense.

Its a high risk game you play when you enter games to mask your defensive weaknesses, by simply believing your offensive talent can compensate consistently. IMO

LOL

Bert you and I posted nearly similar thoughts and analysis only seconds apart.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The focus is better spent on how the team responds to games like this than it is dwelling on the game itself, but if there is a big-picture concern, it’s that the team isn’t playing tidy games against decent offenses frequently enough. While the underlying numbers are definitely trending in the right way, in the past couple of months, they’ve given up big numbers to the Rangers (five), the Panthers (eight), the Penguins (six), the Hurricanes (six), the Oilers (six), the Flyers (six and three), and three to the Jets (x2).

Game #46 Review: Florida Panthers 8 vs. Toronto Maple Leafs 4 | Maple Leafs Hotstove

 

[Mess]

Good question, since I've had no issue calling him brutal previously in my PGT grades.

FYI

Were you aware the Nylander was a -4 +/- on the night, which was the worst mark on the entire team for being on the ice for goals against?