Rumor: Hurricanes interested in Laine, Jets want Pesce and Necas

[Roo Returns]

Flat cap in a vacuum is going to be an issue here. I can see a team like the Kings, Devils, or Predators as good fits more so than the Canes.

 

[Heldig]

Don’t forget the always insightful “you know nothing about hockey” part.

also, does that mean the Rangers are in trouble with 5’11” Adam Fox?

Or 5'10" Quinn Hughes?

 

[spockBokk]

So how close is this deal?

not at all close. CAR won’t part with Pesce

 

[Snowman]

That is fair. My view is that Laine will be the better goal scorer over Aho long term. He’s an elite goal scorer, something Aho is not. I expect Aho will be the better overall player, or at least more well rounded. Better playmaker, a C vs. W, better defensively, can be used in more situations, etc., but I don’t think he’s on Laine’s level as a goal scorer, so a lot of it is what a team needs.

You also made my point from earlier. Aho took great strides in his development those two seasons, so using 4 years of data isn’t a good representation of his play today. I chose 2 years because a) that’s more representative of the player he is today after those strides in development and b) he was moved to center 2 seasons ago which is more consistent with the role he plays today. After hearing your and Dache’s arguments, I acknowledge that makes comparison to Laine more difficult because of the Laine being a year younger and because Laine had a subpar season two seasons ago, which isn’t indicative of who he is either so it skews the data negatively.

anyhow, on the topic at hand, of course I’d love it if the canes acquired Laine. I’m not sure how it would work long term contract wise with Aho, Svechnikov, and Hamilton though. We have a rich owner, but are a small market team that can’t spend like Toronto. If it could be worked out, then fine.

as for an agreeable trade? Fans on HF rarely ever agree so I won’t get into the value debate.

I don’t think there are any active discussions going on right now though, based on what Sara Civian tweeted.

Alright cool. I get where you're coming from with the time period you chose. I mistakenly lumped you in with the countless others who want to compare over two years to make sure they include Laine's bad year to pull down last year since Laine did pretty good. They also don't want to go back 3 years, because they have to include Laine's 44 goal season. It's always that 2 year arbitrary cutoff, not one, not 3, always 2. After this season it will be 3, to include the bad year for Laine.

You we're making a different point with the time period you chose, so I can understand that. Sorry for lumping you in with the other group.

I agree about there being no talks right now. There is a far better chance Laine remains a Jets this season and talks start again next summer if need be.

 

[TS Quint]

Not when posters in this thread and others have suggested that the Canes should make this trade because, well, Laine could score 50 with Aho and Svechnikov/Teravainen.

I'm not advocating either way but more goals is a good thing. As shown by your chart and the % of 40 goal players who win the Cup.

 

[rubikscube]

Have you seen Jarvis play? He can skate circles around Perfetti. It's not a Manitoba connection bias. It's his skill, creativity and the pace he keeps that intrigues me. He was also riding an improvement curve right up until the stoppage. I have no doubt in my mind he would have had a huge playoffs and both been drafted higher and gained enough clout to play on Canada WJC-20. Only time will tell if he becomes a top player from the draft, but I think he'll end up top 5 when all is said and done.

Ah, okay, apologies. You think he's a better prospect. That's fine. It's just 99% of the posts online are "ShOULd haVe TOok thE MaNITobA KId" despite of actual on-ice results

 

[TheKingPin]

Laine has submitted a list of 1 team he'd be willing to be traded to?

Anytime a player has the rep and perceived or real issues that Laine does, the value will drop. So yes, similar relative drop in value.

What lesson is that? Get the player for his best and cheapest years then trade him for a fair return? Seems like a good plan. Same with Kane. Some would even say they won both of those trades.

Trouba wanted way too much money and Winnipeg got two better players and got rid of a horrible contract.

Right now I would give an edge to Aho. But Laine is a year younger, so he could close the gap a bit this year. Especially when you look at the steps Aho took in his 21 and 22 year old seasons.

I am not referring to all jets fans. Or even the actual return. Honestly, I am mostly referring to what mr. snowman here thought would be the return for Trouba in a flyers deal. And now inferring that Laine is close to Ahos value. That’s laughable.

 

[larmex99]

As a long term Jets fan I would prefer to just keep PL for the next 3 seasons at the arbitration salaries and unload him at the TDL in the final year. We will have a great scorer for that time at a fair price and pick up a pretty good haul before his contract expires. No need to take lesser packages or problems. Nice and tidy and it is getting pretty close to the time when some 0f our prime assets are beginning to age out. The side benefit is not having to listen to the hf posters tear each other apart over meaningless stats.

 

[TS Quint]

Fair enough. They were definitely closer last season. No argument. Still, He outscored Laine while playing a significantly demanding more position. He played in all situations, including penalty kill. His cf% was vastly superior to Laine. Etc.
Aho was still better than Laine last. All metrics indicate that.

Also, if you are going to object to me using 2 years of data, I assume you agree with me that using 3 and 4 years ago really isn’t relevant, right?

Centre is more "demanding" because they play the middle of the ice, which gives centres more OPPORTUNITIES to impact the game and put up points.

 

[Snowman]

I am not referring to all jets fans. Or even the actual return. Honestly, I am mostly referring to what mr. snowman here thought would be the return for Trouba in a flyers deal. And now inferring that Laine is close to Ahos value. That’s laughable.

Yes, you are one of the mindless posters we were talking about. At the time Jet fans were talking about Trouba's actual value, with no one knowing the restrictions he put on his trade. You somehow, think that the trade for Trouba, with a list of only 2 teams he would sign with, is the same as his value with no restrictions. Sorry but you have to be incredibly biased to believe that.

The overall point of the posts then was to point out that the Jets wouldn't trade Trouba unless they at least broke even or won the trade. The Jets handily won the trade while you said the Jets would have to accept garbage, so you want us to apologize for Jets fans being right and you being wrong?

 

[TS Quint]

Anytime a player has the rep and perceived or real issues that Laine does, the value will drop. So yes, similar relative drop in value.

I am not referring to all jets fans. Or even the actual return. Honestly, I am mostly referring to what mr. snowman here thought would be the return for Trouba in a flyers deal. And now inferring that Laine is close to Ahos value. That’s laughable.

That isn't what you said at all. You said you thought the Jets would have learned their lesson. Then you doubled down on the first part of this post just to try and run hide by calling it a personal attack on snowman. You're doing great.

 

[Heldig]

not at all close. CAR won’t part with Pesce

And that is a fair point. He is obviously valuable to the Hurricanes and they likely dont want to weaken their D to strengthen their O. I imagine a lot hinges on what happens with Hamilton and what the strategy is for the expansion.

 

[varano]

Centre is more "demanding" because they play the middle of the ice, which gives centres more OPPORTUNITIES to impact the game and put up points.

No. Centre is more demanding because you can't cherry pick and cheat. You actually need to play defense. I would say that there's significant more opportunity for wingers to put up points

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Centre is more "demanding" because they play the middle of the ice, which gives centres more OPPORTUNITIES to impact the game and put up points.

Nah. If you watch Carolina play, you wouldn’t know who was a C and who was a wing in the offensive zone. They rotate, swap and fill open spots all the time.

other than getting a secondary assist off a face off, which isn’t a huge occurrence, being a C in the o zone isn’t an advantage.

defensive zone though, is where the C has way more responsibility. They have to play deep, work in the dirty areas more, have to be more active as the other team cycles, and usually are leaving the zone after the wingers who primarily cover the point and start leaving the zone earlier once the D gets position.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

One thing to consider: with the lack of a preseason and the short season, starting the season off playing as close to peak ability as possible is more important than any other year. It's not the year you want to do a blockbuster trade to get a guy who will demand top ES and PP time- you don't have the luxury of a regular full schedule to get him acclimated to your top talent. Notwithstanding Aho and Laine know and have played with each other- not at the NHL level!

 

[wabagee]

One thing to consider: with the lack of a preseason and the short season, starting the season off playing as close to peak ability as possible is more important than any other year. It's not the year you want to do a blockbuster trade to get a guy who will demand top ES and PP time- you don't have the luxury of a regular full schedule to get him acclimated to your top talent. Notwithstanding Aho and Laine know and have played with each other- not at the NHL level!

Laine and Aho played together in the world championship, where Laine won MVP against nhlers.

 

[jepjepjoo]

Laine and Aho played together in the world championship, where Laine won MVP against nhlers.

Laine played with Jussi Jokinen and Barkov. Aho was on the 3rd line.

 

[wabagee]

Laine played with Jussi Jokinen and Barkov. Aho was on the 3rd line.

Yep.

 

[Whileee]

Those that think Laine's trade value will go down at deadline need to stop going to Alice in wonderland and not take the drink me bottle.

So 3 1/2 years control of a 23 year old sniper will drastically change from 4 years of control and 22.7 years old. Especially if 1 gm out there thinks Laine can put them over the top at the deadline? Laine most likely is not a trade deadline move because a team would fear disrupting the chemistry of the players they lose. And I said players because future picks or just made 2020 picks won't get it done.

The comedy on here is rich.

Offer 2-3 NHL/NHL ready under 25 players or get off the pot. And its ok to say my team shouldn't offer that. But it won't get you Laine.

Agree.

I would add that I think now might be the ideal time to acquire Laine from a value perspective. 3 more years of team control and he's very likely to have improved play / results in the coming season. He actually had some bad shooting luck last season, and by all accounts he's looking stronger / faster than ever. If another team is really interested, biting the bullet and paying the price now might work out well. The price is unlikely to go anywhere but up between now and the offseason.

 

[Whileee]

Or perhaps there are issues with Paul Maurice. Ask Buff. Jets have issues keeping players.

I will repeat if you do not want your team to acquire Laine and fear the potential issues, I understand the concerns and respect what is said. But to think his value is tanking is just fans in Alice In Wonderland.

Buff's issues had nothing to do with Maurice. Maurice is in a tough spot with Laine, since he wants to play with the Jets' best player, who prefers to play with Wheeler. Maurice found a way last year by moving Wheeler to C and Laine to 1RW and giving him a huge amount of ice-time.

If Laine plays really well and gets the ice-time he wants, and the Jets open their wallets, I think Laine would stay. Both sides will be evaluating the fit this season.

 

[Whileee]

These are all warning signs. A tiger isn't going to change his stripes (i.e. Laine isn't going to all of a sudden turn into a power forward) and he shouldn't be dependent on ideal circumstances to produce. It's not like Laine hasn't been put into a position to to succeed on the Jets. He gets plenty of ice time with the best offensive talent on the team. The result has been good, sometimes very good. Good, not great. Could he produce more on a team like the Canes? Possibly. However, look at it through their eyes. Do they really need a player like Laine at the expense of assets like Pesce/Necas? I think the answer is no, hence the hold-up. Of course the Jets would like to make that deal. It would make their team significantly better because they gaining assets they truly need while giving up from a position of strength (winger depth).

Laine is less than one year older than Necas, but we're supposed to factor in Necas' potential and consider Laine as a finished product. That doesn't seem very logical.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Laine is one year older than Me as, but we're supposed to factor in Necas' potential and consider Laine as a finished product. That doesn't seem very logical.

How many more years does Laine need to mature as player?

 

[wabagee]

How many more years does Laine need to mature as player?

If anyone knows the answer it should be you! You follow his name around just to shit on him. Instead of insulting him all the time maybe watch him and learn who he actually is!

 

[gojetsgo]

How many more years does Laine need to mature as player?

he's still only 23... plenty of star players came in at a young age then broke out at 23+ so please don't act like he can't get any better... just from getting more physically mature he will improve.

 

[broc]

You know nothing about hockey if you think Pionk is a better player than Trouba. He has ZERO ability to matchup against any top line. As far as Heinola goes. Don't hold your breath. He's a 5'11 defenseman. Actually wait and see what he does over the grueling 82 game NHL seasons he will play in.

well, I guess that depends where you look. I’ve seen some places lost him as 6 feet as well. Not that any of that even matters, lol.

Because since when did someones height determine is they have the ability to be an effective NHLer? Or even a valuable prospect? You must be real down on the even shorter Nils Lundkvist by your logic. He’ll never hold up to an 82 game grind of a season- am I doing that right? Lolol