Rumor: Hurricanes interested in Laine, Jets want Pesce and Necas

[Cardiac Jerks]

Maybe then the play is to speed up contract talks with Hamilton as soon as he is signed, make a trade like this.

I always figured Slavin was the real centerpiece of that D and Pesce was good but replaceable, and with a great cap hit. Not fair?

Slavin is definitely the best d we have but I wouldn’t call Pesce replaceable in any sense of the word. He is a great dman and considering his excellent contract I would say he’s even less replaceable. Aren’t too many guys of that skill level signed to that kind of contract.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Maybe then the play is to speed up contract talks with Hamilton as soon as he is signed, make a trade like this.

I always figured Slavin was the real centerpiece of that D and Pesce was good but replaceable, and with a great cap hit. Not fair?

Kind of right, kind of not fair. Slavin has slightly more offensive ability than Pesce, but Pesce (IMO) is his equal defensively. Slavin is more smooth skating where-as Pesce, who is a good skater, has a choppier stride. Slavin has excellent stick work, Pesce is fantastic along the boards and while not racking up hits, wins a ton of physical battles along the board coming away with the puck often. They both read plays really quickly and make the right decision most of the time.

Having two defensive stalwarts has allowed Brind'Amour to both separate them to help out some of the offensive minded D (like Hamilton) become more effective offensively, but when needed, he can put Slavin and Pesce back together for a shutdown pair late in a game, in a key defensive faceoff, or on the PK.

You are right that Slavin is the real centerpiece, but I wouldn't say Pesce is "replaceable" as if he were, the Leafs would have acquired a RHD in his mold years ago. There's a reason why a lot of teams are asking about him.

 

[Whileee]

One thing to consider is that the Jets have two D prospects that they are very high on, and they look very close to making an impact at the NHL level.

Samberg projects as a big shut-down D in the Pesce mode. In fact, his trajectory has been as good or better through the NCAA, and he's been turning heads at the current training camp.

Heinola has taken another leap forward in his development, and is widely acknowledged as a potential top 2 or top 4 D.

Both have experience playing RD.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Pesce is to Carolina what Hjalmarsson was to the Hawks in their heyday: 2nd pair defensive anchor that a coach can slide up to the 1st pair at a moment’s notice. That has already come in handy (see Game 7 against Washington in 2019 when Hamilton was having a rough go against Ovechkin).

That type, particularly on the right side, is not easily replaceable. Just look at Toronto’s struggles to acquire just that. Trading him at this point is likely a choice to build without it. Hence, the rejection from fans and management alike.

 

[Ripper]

Sticking to the original OP post- just wanted to add two cents...I think the Jets feeling is that when the Seattle expansion draft comes this summer that they will want to be a 7-3-1 team.
Right now they have 3 d-men that they will want to protect. If they trade for a 4th d-man for the big asset that is Laine, they would now need to protect 4 d and now only 4 forwards and the Jets are a forward heavy team. This from expansion draft perspective makes no sense for the Jets to trade Laine for any return that includes an expansion draft eligible defenseman.

At least before the expansion draft!

 

[Dache]

Nothing? Are you telling me Scheifele and Connor are not more focused on scoring than Aho and TT? I'd say it's not even debatable that Laine would get a lot more chances to score with the Carolina duo who's primary task would be to set him up.

First off you singled out Scheifele and are now switching to him and Conner, and yes, 100% Scheifele is focused on winning and would play 4th line checker if that’s what was needed

 

[BatVader]

Sticking to the original OP post- just wanted to add two cents...I think the Jets feeling is that when the Seattle expansion draft comes this summer that they will want to be a 7-3-1 team.
Right now they have 3 d-men that they will want to protect. If they trade for a 4th d-man for the big asset that is Laine, they would now need to protect 4 d and now only 4 forwards and the Jets are a forward heavy team. This from expansion draft perspective makes no sense for the Jets to trade Laine for any return that includes an expansion draft eligible defenseman.

At least before the expansion draft!

Unless we send a D like Pionk or DeMelo in the deal... giving us 3 D to protect again... which would be my preferred choice
Laine + Pionk/DeMelo for Pesce + Necas/Jarvis + top 10 protected 1st

 

[Diablo2020]

Jake Virtanen
Nikita Tryamkin's rights
Jett Woo
Vasili Podkolzin's rights
Van 2021 1st
Van 2022 1st
Michael Ferland's corpse

for

Patrick Laine

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Unless we send a D like Pionk or DeMelo in the deal... giving us 3 D to protect again... which would be my preferred choice
Laine + Pionk/DeMelo for Pesce + Necas/Jarvis + top 10 protected 1st

No thanks. While I think the value probably wasn't terrible on the Laine for Necas+Pesce initial offer (although I don't think Carolina would do it), Pionk/DeMelo aren't worth a top 10 protected 1st from Carolina. Maybe that's what WPG would want, but still doesn't make sense for Carolina.

Edit: Not to mention the deal puts the Canes WAY over the cap. They have less than $1M with Pesce and Necas taking up ~$4.9M. Laine and one of those defensemen adds almost $10M in cap hit so it's a net add of about $4.5M-$5M which the Canes can't handle. Even the OPs deal doesn't really work from a cap POV for Carolina.

 

[spockBokk]

Unless we send a D like Pionk or DeMelo in the deal... giving us 3 D to protect again... which would be my preferred choice
Laine + Pionk/DeMelo for Pesce + Necas/Jarvis + top 10 protected 1st

So Pesce + Necas/Jarvis for Laine and a 1st for DeMelo or Pionk...yikes

 

[traffic cone]

Pesce is to Carolina what Hjalmarsson was to the Hawks in their heyday: 2nd pair defensive anchor that a coach can slide up to the 1st pair at a moment’s notice. That has already come in handy (see Game 7 against Washington in 2019 when Hamilton was having a rough go against Ovechkin).

That type, particularly on the right side, is not easily replaceable. Just look at Toronto’s struggles to acquire just that. Trading him at this point is likely a choice to build without it. Hence, the rejection from fans and management alike.

No one’s denying that.

It’s just that maybe some people here don’t realize what Patrik Laine is capable of.

When you go back to this trade proposal in five years, people will wonder why the heck didn’t Carolina pull the trigger. Yes, I have a crystal ball. Feel free to quote this in the future everyone.

 

[613Leafer]

It'd be a roll of the dice.

Based on what we saw in his rookie/sophomore seasons and his overall potential, if Laine became a regular Rocket Richard contender who routinely put up ~80+ point seasons, no one would be shocked.

But he's had some inconsistency, he's not a particularly well rounded player, and he's going to be the most expensive of these three players from a cap perspective.

I think the value is pretty close to fair though.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

No one’s denying that.

It’s just that maybe some people here don’t realize what Patrik Laine is capable of.

You should go back and read the string to see what he was responding to (even if he didn't quote it). He was responding to a poster that was asking specifically how Pesce was viewed in Carolina vs. someone like Slavin. He was asking for Canes fans views on Pesce, not anything else (and not about Laine even if it was in this thread). The post was just an answer to a specific question that another poster asked.

When you go back to this trade proposal in five years, people will wonder why the heck didn’t Carolina pull the trigger. Yes, I have a crystal ball. Feel free to quote this in the future everyone.

LOL. Except we don't know that this offer (or any offer) was even on the table. Years back, a few Canes fans were convinced of certain returns in the "EDM wants Faulk" rumors from "insiders". A few delusional (IMO) Canes fans thought that certain players were a possible return due to some of the "rumors". Years later, they complained about Francis not pulling the trigger on a deal that was likely Never really on the table.

In reality, we no idea what, if any deal is or is not really on the table. Insiders sometimes have good information, sometimes have bits and pieces and draw a conclusion, and sometimes speculate. Is it Pesce? Pesce+Necas? Pesce+Necas+? etc...

No doubt Laine is a fantastic talent and the best player in this deal, nobody (other than a couple of posters) is denying that. The concern, from many Canes fans, is the ramifications of another large contract (which Laine will command), in addition to Aho, Svechnikov, and (hopefully) Hamilton.

 

[Tryamw]

When you go back to this trade proposal in five years, people will wonder why the heck didn’t Carolina pull the trigger. Yes, I have a crystal ball. Feel free to quote this in the future everyone.

The problem with that is the Cap and all it's ripple effects Laine is going to be great I do want him I don't think we can afford him..
Just like if I was given the sticker value of a Ferrari With Tax I could afford said until I got the tax payment and insurance. Carolina can't afford him so it's a nice dream but I can't see making it work..

 

[Fatass]

Young (potentially) star D man for a young scoring forward. Which way does recent history lean as the smarter move on this one?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Slavin is definitely the best d we have but I wouldn’t call Pesce replaceable in any sense of the word. He is a great dman and considering his excellent contract I would say he’s even less replaceable. Aren’t too many guys of that skill level signed to that kind of contract.

Pesce is certainly a value contract and he is good all around type. Problem is Necas is still young and it's hard to nail down how good he can be. He didn't do well against the Bruins in the playoffs. Still early though but the Jets can't gamble on hope with Necas if they are trading one of the best young shots at wing in the game today. Pesce is nowhere near enough even though the the Jets need that type.

 

[Tryamw]

Could ask Toronto...

 

[Nedarb]

Young (potentially) star D man for a young scoring forward. Which way does recent history lean as the smarter move on this one?

Orrrr.. young 2/3 d man for a young (potentially perennial rocket trophy candidate) star forward. Can reword anything to make it fit your bill. Doesn’t always make it true.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

It’s very risk to trade Pesce as Hamilton is a ufa this summer. If he walked then they have basically no RD.

I imagine this is the exact problem here. Jets demand Pesce, and Canes can't give him when Hamilton situation is what it is.

So until Canes either re-sign Hamilton or acquire an extra top 4 RD from elsewhere, or Jets settle for something like Bean + Necas + , we wont see a trade happening.

 

[Whileee]

Pesce is certainly a value contract and he is good all around type. Problem is Necas is still young and it's hard to nail down how good he can be. He didn't do well against the Bruins in the playoffs. Still early though but the Jets can't gamble on hope with Necas if they are trading one of the best young shots at wing in the game today. Pesce is nowhere near enough even though the the Jets need that type.

The way Samberg has developed and looked in camp, the Jets need for a top-4 shutdown D is less than it has been. He's on an ELC for the next 3 years, too.

 

[AvatarAang]

Could ask Toronto...

or we can keep the topic on winnipeg and carolina so as not to derail the thread.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

No one’s denying that.

It’s just that maybe some people here don’t realize what Patrik Laine is capable of.

When you go back to this trade proposal in five years, people will wonder why the heck didn’t Carolina pull the trigger. Yes, I have a crystal ball. Feel free to quote this in the future everyone.

Well, HF will probably nuke the archives in this sub-forum again before 5 years. This will probably never be rehashed.

Look, I don't deny that Laine is a very good player who has the potential to be an elite player. It's just a question of team building. There are teams in the league that need a potential elite scorer in their core group. Carolina is not one. Svechnikov is a LW/RW with a 40-40 skillset that plays the left half-wall on the PP (Top 10 in the league last year), too. The salary cap and the difficulty in acquiring premium position players makes having two of those on the same roster extremely difficult. For a cap hit less than Laine next year, the year after and possibly beyond, the Canes will have a 2/3 RHD that can relied upon defensively (there's no replacement in the organization at this time) and a young player with the potential to form a championship caliber 1-2 center punch with Aho (Trocheck is a stop-gap). It's not much of a debate to the Canes fans on this board what's more important to the future success of the team and that's not meant as a shot at Laine.