GDT: Hurricanes @ Caps 11/8/14 8PM

[Dream Big]

Used to skate above the ice, now he's skating into it.

It could have something to do with the skate sharpening. Profiling radius, rocker and hollow is an art.

Not every sharpener understands how the player's weight and playing style need to be accommodated to get the results you want. Player weight up/down etc.

Who does the Caps profiling?

 

[artilector]

Regarding Ovechkin, I think it's a legit question to ask whether an ideal team would include Ovi at 9mil/year, or it would use that cap space in a different way.

However, IMO there are two main points that you must deal with before considering that proposition.

Firstly, the Caps' management has been far less than ideal. So there's a considerable risk that if they take out a key piece, they won't find the right replacements. I mean imagine two more Laichs on the team, or something.

Secondly, the Caps' have a lot of other questionable spending, so even in terms of cold-blooded bang for the puck, I don't Ovi is quite at the top of the list of questionable cap space use. So I think the obvious strategy there is -- you have to prune the more obvious (and safer to remove) contracts first, and then reevaluate. Because only then will you be able to figure out whether you need to rebuild, retool, or maybe the chemistry works and you decide you have a legit shot at contending.

But I think the overall concern is quite legitimate. IMO the Caps' top line ES performance has been horrid for a long time, relative to the cap space that Ovi and Backstrom command. We can harbor various levels of hope about what Trotz/Wilson can do, but so far we haven't seen anything except for inconsistent glimpses of something that resembles a dominant 1st line.

 

[txpd]

Why do you have such a hard time admitting gmgm ****ed up? You've been doing this since the trade.

I am not saying that. I am making a logical point. Burakovsky played Kuznetsov to the back burner. Forsberg might have plaHyed Burakovsky off the team while putting Kuz in the back burner spot that he is in. Wilson plays regardless because his game is different.

Here's hoping the return works out better than Erat, but if they kept Forsberg, it seems likely that one of the three skill guys gets traded anyway.

The Caps have another one of these type players coming from this past draft too. yes? I forget his name.

Trotz doesn't want a lineup of kids. and....if you send Bura to Hershey, its still a lineup of kids next year. the depth chart doesn't change.

So...again. I am saying that Burakovsky is bringing what Forsberg would bring. If Forsberg bumps Bura to Hershey then its Forsberg doing it but otherwise its the same. You don't get Forsberg and Burakovsky both lighting it up.

 

[CapsJunkie]

Vrana? he looks to be a couple years away.. I could be wrong though. I would like to see Kuzy on the top line and left alone for a couple of games. maybe they could have some chemistry

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Regarding Ovechkin, I think it's a legit question to ask whether an ideal team would include Ovi at 9mil/year, or it would use that cap space in a different way.

However, IMO there are two main points that you must deal with before considering that proposition.

Firstly, the Caps' management has been far less than ideal. So there's a considerable risk that if they take out a key piece, they won't find the right replacements. I mean imagine two more Laichs on the team, or something.

Secondly, the Caps' have a lot of other questionable spending, so even in terms of cold-blooded bang for the puck, I don't Ovi is quite at the top of the list of questionable cap space use. So I think the obvious strategy there is -- you have to prune the more obvious (and safer to remove) contracts first, and then reevaluate. Because only then will you be able to figure out whether you need to rebuild, retool, or maybe the chemistry works and you decide you have a legit shot at contending.

But I think the overall concern is quite legitimate. IMO the Caps' top line ES performance has been horrid for a long time, relative to the cap space that Ovi and Backstrom command. We can harbor various levels of hope about what Trotz/Wilson can do, but so far we haven't seen anything except for inconsistent glimpses of something that resembles a dominant 1st line.

Bravo ! Couldn't have said it better. Very honest post that covers every aspect of the problem.

I'd like to add that getting rid of Ovechkin has a huge impact on the team, not only on the ice, but financially as well. He's the one who brings the fans to Verizon Center, and he's the one who sells the jerseys.

Most fans like him, and he's far from a liability, despite what the pundits of the main boards try to make us believe. Let's keep him.

 

[artilector]

sure...lets do it your way. where do kuznetsov, Burakovsky, Forsberg and Wilson fit? do this in a way that jives with the coaching preferences that Trotz has displayed.

Bura and even Wilson could've easily been kept in Hershey another year, let's start with that. Simply adding those young guys to the team in stages could've been enough to do the trick.

But more importantly, I don't have to make them "jive". What you don't seem to understand is that what angers many people is not the formal fact that Forsberg was traded, it's that he was traded for a bad return (which then turned out to be a horrible return). If Bura, Kuz, Forsberg don't jive, no problem, trade the one that doesn't fit for something significant. I mean, if the argument is that in those circumstances, the best one can get is an Erat, well I simply disagree, and so would most people, I suspect.

 

[Coldplay619]

Regarding Ovechkin, I think it's a legit question to ask whether an ideal team would include Ovi at 9mil/year, or it would use that cap space in a different way.

However, IMO there are two main points that you must deal with before considering that proposition.

Firstly, the Caps' management has been far less than ideal. So there's a considerable risk that if they take out a key piece, they won't find the right replacements. I mean imagine two more Laichs on the team, or something.

Secondly, the Caps' have a lot of other questionable spending, so even in terms of cold-blooded bang for the puck, I don't Ovi is quite at the top of the list of questionable cap space use. So I think the obvious strategy there is -- you have to prune the more obvious (and safer to remove) contracts first, and then reevaluate. Because only then will you be able to figure out whether you need to rebuild, retool, or maybe the chemistry works and you decide you have a legit shot at contending.

But I think the overall concern is quite legitimate. IMO the Caps' top line ES performance has been horrid for a long time, relative to the cap space that Ovi and Backstrom command. We can harbor various levels of hope about what Trotz/Wilson can do, but so far we haven't seen anything except for inconsistent glimpses of something that resembles a dominant 1st line.

Great post.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

All I want for Christmas is a killer instinct for the Caps.

 

[hockey4sale]

sure...lets do it your way. where do kuznetsov, Burakovsky, Forsberg and Wilson fit? do this in a way that jives with the coaching preferences that Trotz has displayed.

what has Wilson show to even be in the same conversation with Kuz, Bura and Forsberg?...other than bad penalties and boxing matches what has he accomplished playing almost a full season in the NHL? maybe he has a potential to become good power forward but at the moment he should be in Hershey playing good minutes...instead he is on top line with Ovie...playing Wilson on top line is just as ridiculous as playing Beagle there

there was time when Ovie was so good that even washed up Knuble could score 20+ goals playing on that line, but that time is long gone, these days that top line needs a lot of help from another fast very skilled forward who can play puck possession game, other than Kuz I don't see another player who would fit, without Kuz on the wing the top line will just continue to stay invisible 5-on-5

 

[txpd]

Bura and even Wilson could've easily been kept in Hershey another year, let's start with that. Simply adding those young guys to the team in stages could've been enough to do the trick.

But more importantly, I don't have to make them "jive". What you don't seem to understand is that what angers many people is not the formal fact that Forsberg was traded, it's that he was traded for a bad return (which then turned out to be a horrible return). If Bura, Kuz, Forsberg don't jive, no problem, trade the one that doesn't fit for something significant. I mean, if the argument is that in those circumstances, the best one can get is an Erat, well I simply disagree, and so would most people, I suspect.

and you have now made my point. Erat and Latta were not a good return for Forsberg. That doesn't mean that he wasn't going to get traded for something else and still not be on the team.

The Caps were not going to have a top 6 of Wilson, Kuznetsov, Forsberg and Burakovsky this year or next year. its too young. Vrana(thank you) might be two years away but would be further away based on the backup.

So, again. If Forsberg were here and doing great for he would be leading the Caps in ESP as Burakovsky is and Bura would be in Hershey. All while they try and find a place for Kuznetsov to play.

 

[txpd]

Wilson on top line is just as ridiculous as playing Beagle there

If you believe that, there's no point in a dialogue. I think most here see it differently. I will leave it at that.

 

[artilector]

yea...you are missing something. Trotz would not have Forsberg and Kuznetsov and Forsberg on the roster at the same time. He doesn't have room for Bura and Kuzy right now.

I don't see any difference between Forsberg and Burakovsky. I am content with what they have. If Forsberg were on the team, Burakovsky would not. If Forsberg was as good with Trotz and Bura is, then it would be a wash.

The Caps don't have a shortage of these kind of young players while they have a limit to how many they can use at the same time.

No, since part of your point is that you're content with what they have, we're in complete disagreement. I am not content that instead of trying to figure out what to do with say a rookie Burakovsky (assuming Forsberg and Kuz are on the roster), the Caps have a rookie Latta on the 4th line.

 

[troyerlaw]

He is crap at ES. Get over it.

He's a one trick pony on the PP and that's about it.

The sooner you realize that, the closer we are to getting rid of him.

Isn't this the same conversation we've seen on the main board for three of the last four years? Ovie sucks, Ovie's done, what happened to Ovie? And then he scores like 30 goals in his last 45 games and winds up at or near the top of the league.

Last year was the anomaly. He usually doesn't start out hot. Goes on a tear later.

Anyway, the guy is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Last year, he was scoring like a fiend, but people were moaning about the +/-. This year he is playing a better defensive game and blocking shots, and now people are saying he doesn't score and is a shell of his former self.

He still lays a mean hit, btw. Ask Hjallmarson.

Caps have won 2 in a row. I'll just enjoy that for a day or two before I say a eulogy for Ovie's career.

How did Forsberg do tonight? Anyone have his point totals?

 

[Halpysback*]

2 years ago it was our scouts saw some critical flaw in him. Last year it was see, Trotz is ruining his game. This year it's he would have forced Burakovsky off the team or something. I guess if Forsberg becomes the best player in the league he still wouldn't have a place here because him and Ovechkin would butt heads or something.

Forsberg would make the team (he's the best of Kuz, Bura, him and Wilson right now). Burakovsky would make the team. Kuznetsov would make the team or worst case start in Hershey and play his way up. Wilson would make the team. Chicago, Pittsburgh, LA all broke in lots of young players at once, as did teams like Nashville and Minnesota that are more like us yet STILL closer to contender status. Maybe Forsberg being here would have prompted the GM to compensate by signing iller or some getting another actual starting goalie somehow. The lineup would have been

Ovechkin Backstrom Forsberg
Johansson Burakovsky Brouwer
Laich Kuznetsov Ward
Chimera Beagle Wilson

defense

iller
Holtby or very good backup if Holtby gets traded for something useful.

We'd have a top 5 record in the league while being a young up and coming team.

 

[troyerlaw]

Meh. People are in love with Forsberg because we don't have him. There will always be a side obsession with him because we lost the trade.

Honestly, in the playoffs (should we ever get back), Latta may prove as valuable as Forsberg. I like Latta more and more. He was a sleeper in that trade.

Besides, Erat is having a good season, too. Why aren't we obsessing over him too?

Just because a player has 6 goals for one team doesn't mean he'd have 6 goals for our team. And just because he has 6 goals, 14 games into the season, doesn't mean he is The One Who Got Away. We have good young talent in Bura and Kuzya, plus playmakers like Nicky & MoJo. We do need some toughness and grit to be part of the blend. Edmonton has first-round snipers out the wazoo. It hasn't translated into diddly.

 

[troyerlaw]

We'd have a top 5 record in the league while being a young up and coming team.

I think that's a reach. We'd still have all the rest of our roster.

I don't think there's a single player anywhere, let alone the young FF, who lifts us immediately from current mediocrity to cream of the crop.

 

[troyerlaw]

As much as I love discussing Forsberg and no one else, here's a separate question -- any news, or even semi-informed guesses, on nature of Wilson's injury?

 

[Holtbyisms]

As much as I love discussing Forsberg and no one else, here's a separate question -- any news, or even semi-informed guesses, on nature of Wilson's injury?

He was really down low to the ice and stretched his legs kind of awkwardly as he was striding forward. I'm thinking he pulled something. Best guess at least. Hopefully not the ankle.

 

[Halpysback*]

I think that's a reach. We'd still have all the rest of our roster.

I don't think there's a single player anywhere, let alone the young FF, who lifts us immediately from current mediocrity to cream of the crop.

We'd have a very very good possession guy bumping everyone down in the roster. We already lost a bunch of close games. FF and a better goalie would have been enough to win 3-4 of them.

 

[Capsman]

what has Wilson show to even be in the same conversation with Kuz, Bura and Forsberg?...other than bad penalties and boxing matches what has he accomplished playing almost a full season in the NHL? maybe he has a potential to become good power forward but at the moment he should be in Hershey playing good minutes...instead he is on top line with Ovie...playing Wilson on top line is just as ridiculous as playing Beagle there

there was time when Ovie was so good that even washed up Knuble could score 20+ goals playing on that line, but that time is long gone, these days that top line needs a lot of help from another fast very skilled forward who can play puck possession game, other than Kuz I don't see another player who would fit, without Kuz on the wing the top line will just continue to stay invisible 5-on-5

I don't know, Wilson showed a lot tonight. I was down on him last year, but I've seen some things this year that have me a lot more excited. Has a burst of speed I didn't know he had and his vision has markedly improved. He's cycling a lot better as well.

 

[KevinM]

Honestly, in the playoffs (should we ever get back), Latta may prove as valuable as Forsberg.

 

[FloridaCap]

Problemo:

Corsi Scores

Game is close - 53.44%
Within 1 - 52.55%
Leading - 45.21%
Tied - 53.32%
Trailing - 60.73%

As soon as we get the lead we stop playing hockey. All of a sudden we're just chipping it out to center all the time.

It's the reason we had the 5 game losing streak to begin with. Surely it has to come from Trotz?

 

[Capsman]

and you have now made my point. Erat and Latta were not a good return for Forsberg. That doesn't mean that he wasn't going to get traded for something else and still not be on the team.

The Caps were not going to have a top 6 of Wilson, Kuznetsov, Forsberg and Burakovsky this year or next year. its too young. Vrana(thank you) might be two years away but would be further away based on the backup.

So, again. If Forsberg were here and doing great for he would be leading the Caps in ESP as Burakovsky is and Bura would be in Hershey. All while they try and find a place for Kuznetsov to play.

At the time of the trade there is no way GMGM knew Bura would be ready this season. This was a monumentally bad trade, and in fact makes me wonder what exactly it was about FF they didn't like. n

 

[KevinM]

I'd hazard a guess that most teams corsi percentage while leading a game is going to drop, just like our highest corsi percentage is when we're behind the same is true of other teams. It's only natural that the other team is going to make a push and take more chances to try to get on the scoreboard and I don't see that as an inherent problem. It's just exacerbated because the goalies and defense haven't been showing up in those situations so we've been losing points as a result. Once the netminding gets back on track that issue will be mitigated.

 

[PucksInDeep]

Couldn't believe the Forsberg trade at the time, hate it even more now.

BUT, if Latta (or Brown) help us in the playoffs en route to a Stanley Cup, all will be forgiven