Hull & Oates vs Ovechkin & Backstrom

[LeafFever]

71 % Ovy and Backstrom? Some young ones in here. Hull/Oates were unstoppable.

 

[Maelmoor]

Interesting poll. I rate Ovi higher than Hull, but I also rate Oates higher than Bäckström. Difficult to assess what the difference would be when summed up, but went for Oates and Hull.

 

[LeafFever]

Adam Oates is way better than Backstrom ever was. Next to Gretzky I am not sure there was a better playmaking centre.

 

[PB37]

On HF boards, the old retired players always trump the current, in polls.

The Nostalgia and the total lack of understanding of how much better hockey is today, is simply incredible.

There's no real right way to compare players across different eras, but I find the best way to do so is to not compare their skills and production to each other but compare them to their peers at the time. ie: how dominant where they in their time period.

 

[LeafFever]

On HF boards, the old retired players always trump the current, in polls.

The Nostalgia and the total lack of understanding of how much better hockey is today, is simply incredible.

This poll tells us the opposite is true.

Did you watch hockey in 1992? I did. Hull and Oates were simply incredible. Oates was a better and more complete player than Hull in their primes.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

This poll tells us the opposite is true.

Did you watch hockey in 1992? I did. Hull and Oates were simply incredible. Oates was a better and more complete player than Hull in their primes.

They were incredible playing against players, generally vastly inferior to those active today.

 

[blundluntman]

They were incredible playing against players, generally vastly inferior to those active today.

Gretzky, Lemiuex, Yzerman, Sakic, Lafontaine, and Messier are inferior? Let’s be honest with ourselves here

 

[LeafFever]

They were incredible playing against players, generally vastly inferior to those active today.

You're underrating players of past generations.

 

[Thenameless]

Adam Oates is way better than Backstrom ever was. Next to Gretzky I am not sure there was a better playmaking centre.

Lemieux was better, he just wasn't a "pure" playmaker like Oates. Oates might actually be one of the best pure playmakers of all time, as even Gretzky and Lemieux were also threats to score goals.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Gretzky, Lemiuex, Yzerman, Sakic, Lafontaine, and Messier are inferior? Let’s be honest with ourselves here

Bourque, Neely, Jagr, Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, Stevens, Lidstrom, Forsberg, Leetch, Bure, Chelios, Coffey

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Gretzky, Lemiuex, Yzerman, Sakic, Lafontaine, and Messier are inferior? Let’s be honest with ourselves here

Firstly, I said generally.

Secondly, those players were amazing then, would be considerably less amazing going up against the best of the best today. 25-30 years is a lifetime in pro sports, especially in hockey.

A few WC:s ago, Bobby Orr admitted in tv, that today's players were on a completely other level than those active when he played.

 

[streitz]

Hull was never the physical force Ovy is. Aside from assist, I wonder where else you think Golden Brett was better

"Better or equal as a goal scorer" yet he lead the league in goals only 3 times.... to Ovechkins 7.

Also funny how aside from Hull's 78 goal season, Ovechkin has the better peak goal scoring year with 65. Adjusted they are probably neck and neck. Ovy also has 7 50 goal seasons to Hull's 5, with another one at 49. Scoring was higher back then FYI.

I don't care about adjusted goals.

Also Hull faced much harder competition to lead the league in goals. Namely 2 guys named Gretzky and Lemieux.


The league today is a joke. Who has won rockets to compete with Ovechkin?


Crosby? Great player but not exactly a goal scorer.
Stamkos? Great slapshot but this guy shouldn't of ever won rockets.
Perry? I mean really...lol

None of these guys would sniff a 'rocket'(since it didnt exist prior to 99) in the 80's or early 90's.

 

[streitz]

They were incredible playing against players, generally vastly inferior to those active today.

Well for starters every player in 92 minus the goons could usually handle the puck.


Today's 3rd and 4th liners can't hold onto the puck for more then a second, they can't make backhand passes, can't keep their head on a swivel going into the corner.


Today's players are in good shape but thanks to the trap hindering their puck skills would be completely hopeless in the 80's and 90's when to win you needed the puck on your stick.

 

[blundluntman]

Firstly, I said generally.

Secondly, those players were amazing then, would be considerably less amazing going up against the best of the best today. 25-30 years is a lifetime in pro sports, especially in hockey.

A few WC:s ago, Bobby Orr admitted in tv, that today's players were on a completely other level than those active when he played.

Even as a general statement, that is a falsehood. The 90s were full of hall of famers and talent was arguably at an all time high. Less teams were around as well so talent was distributed very well. Even the expansion teams of that era had feats such as defeating a potent Red Wings team in 95 and making it to the cup finals in 96.

A fair amount of those players played during the same time as players considered stars and first liners within the past decade and did just fine. So I'm not sure where the proof comes from to support that.

Even Gretzky has dubbed numerous inferior players to him as guys that could potentially break his records or surpass him. Advocates of the game such as Him and Orr aren't going to talk bad about the current state of the game, its counterproductive. Comments like that are meant to be taken with a grain of salt. And even if that comment's true, we're talking about players that were active from the late 80s to early 2000s... Orr played in the 70s.

 

[7even]

There's no real right way to compare players across different eras, but I find the best way to do so is to not compare their skills and production to each other but compare them to their peers at the time. ie: how dominant where they in their time period.

Everybody's high on stats revision

 

[Voight]

I don't care about adjusted goals.

Also Hull faced much harder competition to lead the league in goals. Namely 2 guys named Gretzky and Lemieux.


The league today is a joke. Who has won rockets to compete with Ovechkin?


Crosby? Great player but not exactly a goal scorer.
Stamkos? Great slapshot but this guy shouldn't of ever won rockets.
Perry? I mean really...lol

None of these guys would sniff a 'rocket'(since it didnt exist prior to 99) in the 80's or early 90's.

You don't care about adjusted goals huh? Well sorry but thats the best way to compare across eras, namely the stupid high scoring early 90s vs the mid/late 2000's

Fun fact - 1989 was the last season Gretzky placed in the top 10 for goals. Lemieux placed in the top 10 once after 1990.

You do realize Stamkos is the only other guy to score 60 since I believe 1996. Ovy's dominance isn't because of his peers, its because hes just that good and has the ability to go from 8th to 1st in the goal scoring race within a couple of games. Many people, especially on here, thought 2015 was the last time he'd win a Richard.

As great as Hull was, lets not forget after Oates was traded, he hit 50 goals only two more times.... & FWIW, Ovy would have easily scored 86 with Oates (he did 65 with a rookie Backstrom) and could have possibly beat 99's record.

 

[amnesiac]

How can somebody be “so much better” than a 741 goal scorer?

Ovie is and will be a top 20 player of all-time
3 Harts, 3 Lindsays, 1 Srt Ross, 7 Rockets, 1 Conn Smyth

Hull is probably somewhere around 50
1 Hart, 1 Lindsay, (3 Rockets)

Hull also played half of his career a much higher scoring era

 

[streitz]

As great as Hull was, lets not forget after Oates was traded, he hit 50 goals only two more times.... & FWIW, Ovy would have easily scored 86 with Oates (he did 65 with a rookie Backstrom) and could have possibly beat 99's record.

Idk about that last part, lol.


Ovechkin has never sniffed that total again since his fluke year with 65 though. Brett Hull had 3 years with 70+ goals.
Adjusted goals are useful to a point but they're known to penalize players from the 80's/90's while helping those from lower scoring era's.



Also I don't care if Stamkos hit 60, I've seen him play plenty, the guy is a mediocre talent at best in every regard except his slapshot. My point was Ovechkin has lead the league so many times because the competition is extremely weak post lockout.


Also 8th to 1st, what is that like 46 to 50 goals? lol.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Hull & Oates for all the hits.

Also, has anyone noticed that Brett Hull & Daryl Hall look a bit alike with the blonde flow, and Young Adam Oates with the curly hockey hair is a mustache away from being John Oates doppelganger?

Edit: Nvm, someone did

 

[Randyne]

Ovechkin has never sniffed that total again since his fluke year with 65 though. Brett Hull had 3 years with 70+ goals.

Ovi's 56G is 86.2% to Ovi's 65G. Next closest is Stamkos (in 2005-2019 span) with 60G which is 92.3%
Hull's 72G is 83.7% to Hull's 86G. Next closest is Lemieux (in 1986-2000 span) with 85G which is 98.8%
Ovi's 56 is closer to 65 than Hull's 72 to 86. Hull's 86G fluke is flukier.

Brett Hull had 3 years with 70+ goals.

There were 8 records with 70+ goals in 1986-2000
Only 2 records with 60+ goals in 2005-19

 

[Voight]

Idk about that last part, lol.


Ovechkin has never sniffed that total again since his fluke year with 65 though. Brett Hull had 3 years with 70+ goals.
Adjusted goals are useful to a point but they're known to penalize players from the 80's/90's while helping those from lower scoring era's.

Hull had 3 years of 70+ goals because he was playing with (arguably) the second best passer of all time...... he didn't come close to sniffing 70 or even 60 ever again once Oates was gone.

 

[streitz]

Hull had 3 years of 70+ goals because he was playing with (arguably) the second best passer of all time...... he didn't come close to sniffing 70 or even 60 ever again once Oates was gone.

He wasn't playing with Bobby Orr or Mario Lemieux.

 

[streitz]

There were 8 records with 70+ goals in 1986-2000
Only 2 records with 60+ goals in 2005-19

Is that because players were more talented in the past? I think so.

 

[Voight]

He wasn't playing with Bobby Orr or Mario Lemieux.

 

[streitz]

You said Oates was the 2nd best playmaker, I threw 2 names who were better making him 4th best.


Try again.