Hull & Oates vs Ovechkin & Backstrom

[streitz]

So by your experience, you can honestly say that you saw Brett Hull play any sort of decent defense?.....

No point of having an opinion if there’s nothing to back it, right? Posters have already pointed out that your claims don’t make much sense. Instead of playing the elitist, why don’t you share your “experience.”

Uh, I posted Oates had better defense then Backstrom.


Brett Hull vs Ovechkin defensive ability is a wash since they both were sub par. Read my post again .

 

[Albatros]

I recall Hull being okay defensively at least by his own standards in Dallas and Detroit.

 

[streitz]

I recall Hull being okay defensively at least by his own standards in Dallas and Detroit.

Yeah he got better with age. In St Louis he was pretty bad.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Uh, I posted Oates had better defense then Backstrom.


Brett Hull vs Ovechkin defensive ability is a wash since they both were sub par. Read my post again .

Ahhh I see. I misread.

But still. Was Oates really that much better defensively? Backstrom has always been very underrated in his own end.

 

[streitz]

Ahhh I see. I misread.

But still. Was Oates really that much better defensively? Backstrom has always been very underrated in his own end.

Oates was very solid defensively and one of the best faceoff men in the league. So IMO yes.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Oates was very solid defensively and one of the best faceoff men in the league. So IMO yes.

Fair enough. But Hull being better than Ovi? That’s not something I hear very often.

 

[Mike Liut]

How can somebody be “so much better” than a 741 goal scorer?

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Ovechkin vs Hull
*not including this season for OV

Hart: 3--1
Finalist: 5--3
Top 10: 8--4
Lindsay: 3--1
Smythe: 1--0
Calder: 1--0
Ross: 1--0
Top 10 pts: 8--3
PPG leader: 3--0
Top 10 PPG: 8--4
Rocket: 7--3
Top 10 goals: 11--8
GPG leader: 8--3
Top 10 GPG: 11--7
AST (1st+2nd): 10--3
Awards: 16--5

Pt finishes:
OV: 1,2,2,3,3,4,7,8
Hull: 2,4,5

Goal finishes:
OV: 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,3,3,4,5
Hull: 1,1,1,2,6,8,9,10

Before someone cries, Gretzky stopped Hull from winning 1 ross (Lemieux didn't take anything). Give him a ross if you want, doesn't change anything. Pretty clearly not in the same class of players. OV is way better.

 

[Plural]

Whenever people have these "Brett Hull >>> Ovechkin", "Yzerman >>> Crosby" or "Andreychuk was an all-time great goal-scorer" opinions, why bother with the discussion. There is no rationale for some opinions and to get to those opinions one needs to reject a great deal of objectivity. I think the one Dr. House quote fits this very well. "If you could reason with..."

As for the poll, Oates is a slight upgrade over Backs but OV is much larger upgrade over Hull. Went with the Caps duo.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Seriously?

Oates was better than Backstrom but not by much, outside of Oates' peak year in 92-93. But Ovechkin is quite a bit better than Hull.... somewhere in the "AINEC" category. The only way you'll ever see Hull ahead of Ovechkin is if the name starts off with "Bobby".

yeah, it is by much. Backstrom cant hold Oates' jockstrap

 

[wintersej]

Oates is being criminally underrated in this thread.

Oates had 97 ASSISTS in a year for Boston in which Cam Neely only played 18 games.

His primary line mates were Joe Juneau (never scored more than 15 goals in a season after he left Oates) and Dmitri Kvartalnov, who was out of the NHL after 18 months after he was sent down to the AHL. Oates was still a PPG player throughout the DPE and into his age 38 and 39 seasons. He is a clear clear clear class or two above Backstrom.

Hull was a 70 or 80 goal scorer with Oates and a 50 goal scorer after Oates left. A 50 goal scorer in an era where 10-15 guys were scoring 50 every year and Selanne and Mogilny were hitting 70. Meanwhile, Oates best season (and arguably seasons) happened away from Hull. Heck, when Cam Neely finally was able to play more than 20 games in a season, Neely put up 50 goals in 49 games with Oates. I don't think there has been a better playmaker than Oates in the NHL aside from 99.

That being said, Ovi is a far better all around player than Hull, especially in his prime. Ovi has matched Hull's "Oates free" production in eras where only a handful of guys hit 50, if any. One of the handful of best goal scorers in the history of the game. In that relationship, I think its Backstrom that is the beneficiary where as Hull was the beneficiary of his relationship with Oates.

Now all I can think about is prime Oates with Ovi. If you got them both in their primes, might have been a better line combo that 66 and 68.

As far as the poll? Despite all the Oates pumping above, gotta go with the Caps group.

 

[weaponomega]

Ovechkin is better than Hull by quite a bit and Oates is better than Backstrom by quite a bit. Hull was more dependent on Oates than Ovechkin is on Backstrom for his goals. Ovechkin is one of those players that can make something out of nothing.

 

[blundluntman]

Oates is being criminally underrated in this thread.

Oates had 97 ASSISTS in a year for Boston in which Cam Neely only played 18 games.

His primary line mates were Joe Juneau (never scored more than 15 goals in a season after he left Oates) and Dmitri Kvartalnov, who was out of the NHL after 18 months after he was sent down to the AHL. Oates was still a PPG player throughout the DPE and into his age 38 and 39 seasons. He is a clear clear clear class or two above Backstrom.

Hull was a 70 or 80 goal scorer with Oates and a 50 goal scorer after Oates left. A 50 goal scorer in an era where 10-15 guys were scoring 50 every year and Selanne and Mogilny were hitting 70. Meanwhile, Oates best season (and arguably seasons) happened away from Hull. Heck, when Cam Neely finally was able to play more than 20 games in a season, Neely put up 50 goals in 49 games with Oates. I don't think there has been a better playmaker than Oates in the NHL aside from 99.

That being said, Ovi is a far better all around player than Hull, especially in his prime. Ovi has matching Hull's Oates free production in eras where only a handful of guys hit 50, if any. One of the handle of best goal scorers in the history of the game. In that relationship, I think its Backstrom that is the beneficiary where as Hull was the beneficiary of his relationship with Oates.

Now all I can think about is prime Oates with Ovi. If you got them both in their primes, might have been a better line combo that 66 and 68.

As far as the poll? Despite all the Oates pumping above, gotta go with the Caps group.

Very fair post indeed, a lost art on this forum it seems lol.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Oates is so far ahead of Backstrom it defies all logic

Hull was slightly better then Ovechkin.


Oates/Hull >>>>>> Backstrom/Ovechkin

It's incredible how wrong you can be in one post.

 

[streitz]

It's incredible how wrong you can be in one post.

Well I don't think I'm wrong and no one has proved otherwise.

 

[tony d]

Hull and Oates.

 

[Regal]

How can somebody be “so much better” than a 741 goal scorer?

Because that someone is probably going to score 800+ in a lower scoring era and go down as the best goal scorer of all time. Both have a 3 year peak, but Ovechkin's was clearly better (similar goalscorer, far better play driver and all around offensive player), and Ovechkin has like 7 seasons better than Hull's 4th best. It isn't close

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Ovechkin-Backstrom. The difference between Ovechkin/Hull is bigger than Oates/Backstrom.

 

[Mike Liut]

Because that someone is probably going to score 800+ in a lower scoring era and go down as the best goal scorer of all time. Both have a 3 year peak, but Ovechkin's was clearly better (similar goalscorer, far better play driver and all around offensive player), and Ovechkin has like 7 seasons better than Hull's 4th best. It isn't close

But is he really “so much better” ? And BTW, besides the few years that Hull had Oates, his centers weren’t that great. Keenan played Hull on a checking line with Bassen and Sutter a lot.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Well I don't think I'm wrong and no one has proved otherwise.

Of course no one can prove you wrong if you just cling to "because I said so" and ignore the facts.

 

[Tweed]

I think Hull is overrated historically, but I take the Hull & Oates combo. I'm a fan of both Ovy and Backstrom's game, for the record. That's how much I think of Oates.

 

[wintersej]

But is he really “so much better” ? And BTW, besides the few years that Hull had Oates, his centers weren’t that great. Keenan played Hull on a checking line with Bassen and Sutter a lot.

Craig Janney was a downgrade from Oates but was also a #1C for a two time Cup finalist.

 

[The Macho King]

Hull <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ovi
Oates >>>> Backstrom

I'll take Ovi/Backstrom.

 

[The Macho King]

Oates is so far ahead of Backstrom it defies all logic

Hull was slightly better then Ovechkin.


Oates/Hull >>>>>> Backstrom/Ovechkin

*Brett Hull, not Bobby Hull, I assume.

 

[streitz]

Of course no one can prove you wrong if you just cling to "because I said so" and ignore the facts.

Facts like Brett Hull being a better of a goal scorer as Ovechkin?


I don't care how many times Ovechkin leads the lead in scoring, the league is a joke now and teams are so diluted half the players in the league can't handle the puck. Not to mention the poor quality of competition competing for Rocket trophies.