Hughes vs Kakko vs Dach

[82Ninety42011]

At this point how do you really tell none should have been in NHL this year. Dach did have a decent few games in row but really all showed they weren't ready.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Huh? Kakko had the more productive rookie year

I'm not talking purely about points. I think that's by far the most important measure, but when its close, I think other stats can be used as tiebreakers. Hughes played less games, he has pretty good advanced stats with a rather unsustainably low on ice shooting percentage. I think in a more fortunate season he'd have had a number of more points, and that should be accounted for to some extent. Kakko has some of the worst advanced stats in the league. I don't think it means that much and I don't think it means he's one of the worst players in the NHL when there are bad amateur boxers who occupy roster spots, but if we are breaking a tie between Hughes and Kakko or Hughes and Dach for most productive statistical season, I'm giving it to Hughes. He wasn't that bad offensively, although I expected much more in the points column.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Dach has the best PPG of the three, while having easily the least amount of PP points. Dach has 3 on the man advantage, Hughes has 9, and Kakko has a whopping 13 of his 23 points come from the powerplay.

Dach also leads the trio in hits, shot blocks, giveaways (less than a 3rd of Hughes'), and 2nd in takeaways (I'll let you have that one, Jack!).

Dach is simply a much better player offensively at even-strength, more willing to use his size, and is noticeably better at maintaining possession compared to Hughes and Kakko. Kakko also is a winger, so there is another advantage for Kirby.

This season, Dach's been the best of the trio. That doesn't mean that'll hold in the future; New Jersey certainly didn't pick Hughes for his immediate impact, but it is interesting all the same that the 3rd overall pick has had the best D+1 season.

 

[Dominance]

Huh? Kakko had the more productive rookie year

Powerplay production-reliant and brutal advanced stats picture by all metrics.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

Dach has the best PPG of the three, while having easily the least amount of PP points. Dach has 3 on the man advantage, Hughes has 9, and Kakko has a whopping 13 of his 23 points come from the powerplay.

Dach also leads the trio in hits, shot blocks, giveaways (less than a 3rd of Hughes'), and 2nd in takeaways (I'll let you have that one, Jack!).

Dach is simply a much better player offensively at even-strength, more willing to use his size, and is noticeably better at maintaining possession compared to Hughes and Kakko. Kakko also is a winger, so there is another advantage for Kirby.

This season, Dach's been the best of the trio. That doesn't mean that'll hold in the future; New Jersey certainly didn't pick Hughes for his immediate impact, but it is interesting all the same that the 3rd overall pick has had the best D+1 season.

It should be noted that around half away through the season Dach wasn’t really being sheltered anymore. He was put in a position where he needed to play defense and played it admirably.

On the Hawks board, we even saw a bit of Selke potential, Kopitar like at times. Offensively, Hughes and Kakko might be better eventually, but neither of them can touch Dach’s ceiling defensively.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Powerplay production-reliant and brutal advanced stats picture by all metrics.

Nearly 3 times as many even strength goals as Hughes

 

[Dominance]

draft position so soon after the draft does mean a lot for the record, everyone drafts for ceiling and it still hasn’t changed imo,

he has 2 points more than Hughes in like 3 more games, so to say he’s vaulted Hughes in terms of ceiling is ridiculous, unless you though Dach had the highest ceiling at the time of the draft as well?

Your apparent sincerity re: the bolded is rather hilarious.

Yes, I did consider Dach as such at the draft. Everything Hughes struggled with this season is exactly what was predicted he would struggle with for years, and now that we have results to reference, his weaknesses clearly seriously hamstring his impact on the ice and production. I think they will follow him throughout his career. Sure, as he naturally adds experience, some strength, and improves his shot from one of the weakest in the entire NHL to at least acceptable, he’ll improve substantially. The 80+ point ceiling is still there. I seriously doubt he will come even close to being a bust despite having the worst rookie season by a first overall forward in 20 years, and arguably ever. But this season showed that he has a long ways to go to get there, and I don’t think Hughes will be as impactful as Dach in the long term.

Dach will without a doubt stick at centre. He is already one of Chicago’s better (if not the best) players on the forecheck, on defense, and along the boards. He has just as good puck skills and creativity as Hughes, but is far better equipped to maintain possession and utilize his vision. He skates like the wind and is deceptively agile in the corners. Moreover, I think he is as raw as Hughes, with just as much room to improve, but his challenges are much more surmountable. He doesn’t have to make any alterations to the way he plays, already fearlessly goes into and wins battles on the boards and in front of the net, already is heady and responsible defensively with a good stick, and will easily add 20+ pounds of muscle to his frame to add further power to his shot and skating and allow him to protect the puck even better.

Higher floor, higher ceiling, without a doubt. That doesn’t guarantee he’ll be a better player, but I’d comfortably take that bet.

 

[Dominance]

Nearly 3 times as many even strength goals as Hughes

Hughes was garbage this season, too. No argument from me there.

Even Dach had a relatively poor performance in terms of base stats, but at least he has a strong underlying statistical picture and a valid explanation of significantly less than ideal usage throughout much of the season.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Your apparent sincerity re: the bolded is rather hilarious.

Yes, I did consider Dach as such at the draft. Everything Hughes struggled with this season is exactly what was predicted he would struggle with for years, and now that we have results to reference, his weaknesses clearly seriously hamstring his impact on the ice and production. I think they will follow him throughout his career. Sure, as he naturally adds experience, some strength, and improves his shot from one of the weakest in the entire NHL to at least acceptable, he’ll improve substantially. The 80+ point ceiling is still there. I seriously doubt he will come even close to being a bust despite having the worst rookie season by a first overall forward in 20 years, and arguably ever. But this season showed that he has a long ways to go to get there, and I don’t think Hughes will be as impactful as Dach in the long term.

Dach will without a doubt stick at centre. He is already one of Chicago’s better (if not the best) players on the forecheck, on defense, and along the boards. He has just as good puck skills and creativity as Hughes, but is far better equipped to maintain possession and utilize his vision. He skates like the wind and is deceptively agile in the corners. Moreover, I think he is as raw as Hughes, with just as much room to improve, but his challenges are much more surmountable. He doesn’t have to make any alterations to the way he plays, already fearlessly goes into and wins battles on the boards and in front of the net, already is heady and responsible defensively with a good stick, and will easily add 20+ pounds of muscle to his frame to add further power to his shot and skating and allow him to protect the puck even better.

Higher floor, higher ceiling, without a doubt. That doesn’t guarantee he’ll be a better player, but I’d comfortably take that bet.

Dach has nowhere near Hughes's skillset. There is a reason 5`10 Hughes went 1st overall out of the U18 program and 6`4 Dach went 3rd.

 

[Wierzbowski426]

Nearly 3 times as many even strength goals as Hughes

rofl. Save room in the trophy case for that one. Luckily I'd wager there's still plenty of room.

 

[ThatsSoSlavin]

Your apparent sincerity re: the bolded is rather hilarious.

Yes, I did consider Dach as such at the draft. Everything Hughes struggled with this season is exactly what was predicted he would struggle with for years, and now that we have results to reference, his weaknesses clearly seriously hamstring his impact on the ice and production. I think they will follow him throughout his career. Sure, as he naturally adds experience, some strength, and improves his shot from one of the weakest in the entire NHL to at least acceptable, he’ll improve substantially. The 80+ point ceiling is still there. I seriously doubt he will come even close to being a bust despite having the worst rookie season by a first overall forward in 20 years, and arguably ever. But this season showed that he has a long ways to go to get there, and I don’t think Hughes will be as impactful as Dach in the long term.

Dach will without a doubt stick at centre. He is already one of Chicago’s better (if not the best) players on the forecheck, on defense, and along the boards. He has just as good puck skills and creativity as Hughes, but is far better equipped to maintain possession and utilize his vision. He skates like the wind and is deceptively agile in the corners. Moreover, I think he is as raw as Hughes, with just as much room to improve, but his challenges are much more surmountable. He doesn’t have to make any alterations to the way he plays, already fearlessly goes into and wins battles on the boards and in front of the net, already is heady and responsible defensively with a good stick, and will easily add 20+ pounds of muscle to his frame to add further power to his shot and skating and allow him to protect the puck even better.

Higher floor, higher ceiling, without a doubt. That doesn’t guarantee he’ll be a better player, but I’d comfortably take that bet.

I mean everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it just seems ours is different.

it’ll be a while until either of us can say we’re right though.

 

[Dominance]

Dach has nowhere near Hughes's skillset. There is a reason 5`10 Hughes went 1st overall out of the U18 program and 6`4 Dach went 3rd.

Bullshit argument. Before I address it, though, it would be helpful if you could add some detail. Because right now, the only support you have for your very absolutist “nowhere near” statement is draft position and height

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Bullshit argument. Before I address it, though, it would be helpful if you could add some detail. Because right now, the only support you have for your very absolutist “nowhere near” statement is draft position and height

- Better acceleration
- Better edgework
- Better top end speed
- Better playmaking
- Better hockey sense
- Better motor
- Better work ethic
- Better puck skills

Is that what you were looking for? Or is it the ability to create high danger scoring chances on his own. His skating is going to allow him to carve up defenses for years to come, it's a rare combination of skills that only a few NHL'ers have. Sure he has his downfalls but those are things that should get better with time.

I'm sure you will come back with garbage how Dach has better skills and better hockey sense because that is an arbitrary statement but even with Hughes poor season he had the the better underlying numbers.

Edit: I will happily wait till the start of the next season to rejoin you in this argument after Hughes gets 6+ months to put some size on.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Dach has nowhere near Hughes's skillset. There is a reason 5`10 Hughes went 1st overall out of the U18 program and 6`4 Dach went 3rd.

I'm not sure I agree. Hughes is a much better skater, and can dangle better than Dach. Hughes in those two areas is as good as there is in hockey. But in other areas of the game, I think Dach projects to be as good or better.

Hughes has, at best, an average work ethic. He got a lot of credit in this area from the hype brigrade, which is strange for those who watched him play in junior hockey, but this was every bit as much of a weakness in junior as it was for Dach. And Dach was good in this area in his first NHL season, so clearly it's no longer the problem that was perceived. Playmaking and hockey sense is arguable. Both should be good or better in this area. I don't see it as a clear advantage for either in this area.

One of the main reasons why Dach is viewed as a player with such a high ceiling is because he has no apparent weakness. Hughes went earlier in the draft because he was more productive in putting up points in junior hockey. Dach was viewed as more raw than Hughes who was viewed as an instant impact offensive player. In their first NHL seasons, Hughes didn't significantly outplay Dach, like expected.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I'm not sure I agree. Hughes is a much better skater, and can dangle better than Dach. Hughes in those two areas is as good as there is in hockey. But in other areas of the game, I think Dach projects to be as good or better. One of the main reasons why Dach is viewed as a player with such a high ceiling is because he has no apparent weakness.

The only skill that Dach has in the big 5 over Hughes is his shot. I don't consider size or strength as a skill, they are assets for sure that help retrieve the puck. When talking skills, Will Scouch has a pretty good way to break it down.
Think, Move, Get, Pass and Shoot
- Hughes thinks the game better, there were speed bumps due to the jump from U18 to NHL but with time he will understand what he can get away with and what he can't.
- Hughes certainly moves better, no explanation needed.
- Hughes's speed and motor will allow him to get the puck when he doesn't have it. Even when he turned the puck over his speed and quick hands allowed him to retrieve it quite often.
- Hughes is a dynamic playmaker, very much in the mold of a Barzal with the puck.
- Hughes shot is by far his weakest skill, it will get better with work and maturity but I doubt he is ever better than Dach in this.

 

[CallMeShaft]

The only skill that Dach has in the big 5 over Hughes is his shot. I don't consider size or strength as a skill, they are assets for sure that help retrieve the puck. When talking skills, Will Scouch has a pretty good way to break it down.
Think, Move, Get, Pass and Shoot
- Hughes thinks the game better, there were speed bumps due to the jump from U18 to NHL but with time he will understand what he can get away with and what he can't.
- Hughes certainly moves better, no explanation needed.
- Hughes's speed and motor will allow him to get the puck when he doesn't have it. Even when he turned the puck over his speed and quick hands allowed him to retrieve it quite often.
- Hughes is a dynamic playmaker, very much in the mold of a Barzal with the puck.
- Hughes shot is by far his weakest skill, it will get better with work and maturity but I doubt he is ever better than Dach in this.

Dach's size and reach will allow him to win board battles and to protect the puck in the middle of the ice, two things Hughes' abilities can't seem to accomplish so far....

 

[Hostile Offer]

Could be any one of the three at this point, all certainly benefit from the the long offseason we might be facing. I would still go with Hughes though, there's so much upside in there.

 

[Davo Ikinzom]

They had almost identical stats which were equally bad.

You have to wait and see what happens next season before you make a thread like this.

When they start to separate from each other statistically then you can say who should have went 1st, 2nd, 3rd.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

- Better acceleration
- Better edgework
- Better top end speed
- Better playmaking
- Better hockey sense
- Better motor
- Better work ethic
- Better puck skills

Hughes:
- Better skating
- Better hands

Dach:
- Better passing/vision
- Better defensively
- Better shot
- Better size/strength

 

[avsfan09]

Dach has nowhere near Hughes's skillset. There is a reason 5`10 Hughes went 1st overall out of the U18 program and 6`4 Dach went 3rd.

Because people over-reacted to Dach's slump and a lot of non-sense was said like he was lazy and enigmatic when in reality he likely has the highest ceiling of this draft imo. When he get's going he skates quite a bit like Rantanen and I'd argue has a little more potential due to the creativity I see in him. Just my opinion but his hands, vision, smarts, and size and reach all will be elite. Hughes has skating, hands and vision but imo more working against him.

 

[Patagonia]

Dach had the better season, Hughes season was mixed and should have been much better. Kakko was terrible, but has potential.

 

[UnSandvich]

I'd say the better question is "What has Dach shown that would be enough for New Jersey to take him over Hughes, given events both this season and pre-draft?"

I don't think they'd take him over Hughes, and I have my doubts the Rangers would take him over Kakko. There's a reason those two were the consensus 1 & 2 picks, and i don't think Dach has done enough to change that as of yet.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

I don't know how after this year you can say Dach would be #1 overall. Lets give it another year. Hughes had no business in the NHL this year. Kakko surprisingly wasn't ready but I wouldn't give up on him yet. I guess Kakko would be my pick.

 

[M2Beezy]

Good poll OP as this is clearly to show the 2 horse race from last year EXCLUDED Dach but he clearly had a pretty good season well some peoples expectations of Hughes brother and the Kakk were not what there hoping. That said we all knew Hughes brother would take a couple a years so I will still go with him tho will NOT be suprised if I change my mind in the future

 

[bert]

Hughes still has the highest ceiling offensively. His combination of skating, puck skills and vision still project him to be an elite point producer. The red flags with his game are quite evident however. Strength on the puck and shooting need to get better, I assume they will just as they did with Barzal however if they don't he will be a 2nd line one dimensional scorer.

As of today, NJ wouldn't change their pick and NYR wouldn't change their pick.

Wholeheartedly do not agree with this post. Dach has the most tantilizing package. Hughes hates traffic, he is number 3 for me on this list. The other two will have longer development curves.