Hughes vs Caufield first 22 career games in the NHL, 9 points vs 12 points

[Captain97]

When Caufield played his first NHL game, he was older than Hughes is now. This isn't a particularly meaningful comparison. I'm not even saying he doesn't have a shot at being better than Hughes, but this doesn't really tell you anything about whether that will happen.

I agree with this mostly, I think the being a rookie aspect matters but when looking at men under the age of 22 I think age matters more.

Jack outproduced Cole this year on a point/game basis (I'm including the Habs playoff games) but when you account for Cole being a rookie and most of his games being in the playoffs where points are harder to come by. I'd say they had very imilar levels of production this year and next year should be the actual one we use for our first true comparison.

 

[DearDiary]

Caufield is going to be a superstar. He adapts so quickly. His defensive game is already leagues ahead of where it was at the draft. His offensive game has adapted in less than 20 NHL games because teams are respecting his shot too much. He's using it to bait goalies into great passes. If they don't bite he just puts it in the net. 100 point potential on this kid.

I'd put him behind only McDavid and Draisaitl now. Maybe MacKinnon and Kucherov. He's one of the best players I've ever seen

 

[Riddum]

Caufield might turn into a good player but he does not really produce much 5vrs5 and he seriously cheats when the puck is in his own end
I think the massive expectations and over the top hype is getting a little carried away

The rookie with 22 games of experience makes mistakes?

 

[A Plus]

I can't tell if you're being serious or not with this reasoning. This is almost as bad as the initial premise of the thread.

A difference in 5 months for two players in the same draft year where neither is on the young or old end of that year is negligible for their development. This should really only be accounted for or considered when you have two guys that are being compared where this would have a significant impact on physical development - a good example being Brady Tkachuk being the oldest and most developed in his year versus Kotkaniemi who has nearly an entire year to reach the same rate of physical maturity. This has value when you're looking to project development curves or account for variations in their performance in very specific contexts.

The primary difference between the two players is their development path, not their physical/psychological maturity. There is no perfect or simple comparison here, simply footnotes on their performance in a season. Caufield was not *likely* at a level where he could have played a complete game in the NHL last year. Hughes disappointed when he was put in the NHL at the same age. We can draw some conclusions from that. This year, Hughes was up and down through the season and Caufield has been up and down as he plays his first games in the league. We can draw more conclusions.

Once we're at a point where we can minimize the differences between the contexts that each player is operating in - likely next year we simply compare their performance across the season - we can say more definitively where both players are at.

This thread is a treasure trove of bad takes.

Five months of real world time is never 'negligible'

thats the only bad take I saw in your post

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Oh good just what the world needs, another Cole Caufield thread
He's a good player, so is Jack Hughes...


Thread Over!

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Oh dear god, Caufield's first 22 games came at the age of 20 years old. Are we really comparing him to Hughes who was almost 2 years younger playing center straight out of the U18 Development Team

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

GeorgeLeafer12 made this thread. It all makes sense now, not even time will heal some of the garbage he has posted on here.

 

[Draft]

Five months of real world time is never 'negligible'

thats the only bad take I saw in your post

Any given span of 5 months could be significant for progression or regression of a young player, that's true and not something I would argue against. Evaluating the specific five months from 20 to 20.5 is not useful - and the difference between the players likely negligible depending on the individuals - given the huge variation in physical, mental, and skill development at any age but especially within such a narrow range of time. Development is not linear and production at a certain age point given totally different development paths is not scalable. The best 20 year old player in the world is not necessarily the best 21 year old player a year later.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Op’s obsession with Jack Hughes is moving into the dangerous territory.

 

[Hisch13r]

Op’s obsession with Jack Hughes is moving into the dangerous territory.

It's always been there

 

[Hisch13r]

Oh dear god, Caufield's first 22 games came at the age of 20 years old. Are we really comparing him to Hughes who was almost 2 years younger playing center straight out of the U18 Development Team

lol Hughes also still hasn't even played an NHL game at 20 and Caufield came in at 20

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

OMG

Kappo Kakko had 7 points in his first 20 games while Caufield had 12 points! I bet the Rangers really wish they picked Caufield!

I wonder if Kakko would even be picked in the 1st round in a redraft?

It’s a stupid thread, but you didn’t need to make a comment that tops the thread.

 

[Xirik]

It’s a stupid thread, but you didn’t need to make a comment that tops the thread.

Sorry for offending you.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Sorry for offending you.

I'm not offended, but you don't help your ability to convey your point by saying something that is 10x as insane as what you were trying to push back on.

 

[Xirik]

I'm not offended, but you don't help your ability to convey your point by saying something that is 10x as insane as what you were trying to push back on.

Trying to push the buttons of the Finnish posters who continue to make threads and posts to bash Hughes because he was drafted higher then their beloved Kakko is my Goal.

Also my Point does come through by showing how insane their arguments are by doing the exact same thing.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Trying to push the buttons of the Finnish posters who continue to make threads and posts to bash Hughes because he was drafted higher then their beloved Kakko is my Goal.

Also my Point does come through by showing how insane their arguments are by doing the exact same thing.

I think you misunderstand George Leafer's preferences. He is Finnish, but he's not as rabidly Finnish in his preferences as you think. His posts aren't motivated by Finland as much as you think. If you followed his posts, you'd see this. He's a big fan of Caufield. Caufield is not Finnish. He's not a fan of Hughes, but I think suggesting thats because he preferred Kakko due to that he was Finnish and Hughes is a perceived rival is incorrect. He might simply have not liked Hughes game. He didn't like Lafreniere's and created the same types of threads about Lafreniere. He liked Byfield. He doesn't like Podkolzin. People will have their preferences. I don't think he views this as my nationality against your team. Most opinions and preferences people voice are not tribally motivated.

 

[A Plus]

Upon review of Suzuki's age, revealing hes two years younger than I thought he was, I am guessing he ends up better than Point.

 

[sasha barkov]

I will take Caufield moving forward, to the 14 teams in the top 14 of the draft, thank you very much!

You're very welcome !


* Walks away w Zegras on my team *

 

[Xirik]

I think you misunderstand George Leafer's preferences. He is Finnish, but he's not as rabidly Finnish in his preferences as you think. His posts aren't motivated by Finland as much as you think. If you followed his posts, you'd see this. He's a big fan of Caufield. Caufield is not Finnish. He's not a fan of Hughes, but I think suggesting thats because he preferred Kakko due to that he was Finnish and Hughes is a perceived rival is incorrect. He might simply have not liked Hughes game. He didn't like Lafreniere's and created the same types of threads about Lafreniere. He liked Byfield. He doesn't like Podkolzin. People will have their preferences. I don't think he views this as my nationality against your team. Most opinions and preferences people voice are not tribally motivated.

yeah, keep drinking the koolaid man. I've counted four threads which he's made that are critical of Hughes, I am lazy to find more. Clearly he has a unhealthy dislike of Hughes. Whether thats because of his nationality or perhaps Hughes stole his lunchbox doesn't really matter. The rest of your post is just a bunch of "whataboutism" thats not worth responding too.

Funnily enough though I bet that if I made a thread of who is better between Caufield and Kakko it would definitely be a landslide for Caufield. So... Not really understanding what was insane about my argument.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

I think you misunderstand George Leafer's preferences. He is Finnish, but he's not as rabidly Finnish in his preferences as you think. His posts aren't motivated by Finland as much as you think. If you followed his posts, you'd see this. He's a big fan of Caufield. Caufield is not Finnish. He's not a fan of Hughes, but I think suggesting thats because he preferred Kakko due to that he was Finnish and Hughes is a perceived rival is incorrect. He might simply have not liked Hughes game. He didn't like Lafreniere's and created the same types of threads about Lafreniere. He liked Byfield. He doesn't like Podkolzin. People will have their preferences. I don't think he views this as my nationality against your team. Most opinions and preferences people voice are not tribally motivated.

That’s all fine but the dude has made multiple threads trying to make Jack look bad over the past couple of years. Everyone has their preferences but not everyone goes through the lengths GL does to bash the ones they don’t like.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Whether thats because of his nationality or perhaps Hughes stole his lunchbox doesn't really matter. The rest of your post is just a bunch of "whataboutism" thats not worth responding too.

You are struggling to keep track of what you are suggesting.

You were the one that said his opinion of Hughes is motivated by Kakko. I explained what I don't believe thats so. Now it apparently is irrelevant to this discussion. How is that so? Your logic for claiming Kakko isn't a first rounder in a re-draft is so you can get back at GeorgeLeafer for something that probably isn't his actual motivation for not being a fan of Hughes.

Funnily enough though I bet that if I made a thread of who is better between Caufield and Kakko it would definitely be a landslide for Caufield. So... Not really understanding what was insane about my argument.

So now you want to deflect. You claimed Kakko wouldn't be a first round pick in a re-draft. Thats insane. That has nothing to do with Kakko compared to Caufield.

But go ahead and make a thread to see who the website believes is better between Caufield and Kakko. You seem sure of it, so let's see if you are right.

 

[Xirik]

You are struggling to keep track of what you are suggesting.

You were the one that said his opinion of Hughes is motivated by Kakko. I explained what I don't believe thats so. Now it apparently is irrelevant to this discussion. How is that so? Your logic for claiming Kakko isn't a first rounder in a re-draft is so you can get back at GeorgeLeafer for something that probably isn't his actual motivation for not being a fan of Hughes.



So now you want to deflect. You claimed Kakko wouldn't be a first round pick in a re-draft. Thats insane. That has nothing to do with Kakko compared to Caufield.

But go ahead and make a thread to see who the website believes is better between Caufield and Kakko. You seem sure of it, so let's see if you are right.

The whataboutism claim was for the other players you threw out in your argument,

When you quoted me you didn't specify what in particular you found "insane/tops" the subject of the thread. I assumed you meant the "rangers wishing they picked Caufield" part. I do believe there is an argument to be made right now that they could be.

As to the "Kakko not being drafted in the 1st round" comment I shall recant it, I should have put "Wouldn't be picked till the later of the 1st round."

I don't do Vindictive/trolling polls. I deal with enough of those as a Devils fan. I don't wish to be a hypocrite.

 

[iliketorock]

Hmm. Gagner had a 51 pts pace for RNH's first year, a 65 pts pace for his 2nd and a 45 pts pace for his 3rd. That's easily 2nd line production.

RNH also had Perron for his 3rd and 4th season. I think RNH had the better offensive players around him, but like I said I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

At no point in his career was Sam Gagner a 2nd line quality player. I'm thinking those "on pace for" seasons his lines got absolutely caved in as far as goals against.

 

[Maitz]

Oh no another PP goal… what a bust can’t even score at 5 vs 5

 

[OppositeLocK]

He's scoring at a 22g pace in his rookie year. Sorry he's not Ovechkin?

He's getting the looks, it's just a matter of them going in which will come eventually. Goal scorers are hot or cold, he seems to be doing the right thing and making great passing plays even when he's not scoring.

Sure he has just 2 goals in the playoffs, he's playing on the first line against the best of the best teams as well. He's doing fine.

Looks? This isn't basketball.