Hughes vs Caufield first 22 career games in the NHL, 9 points vs 12 points

[Baaaaaaaaaaaaah]

Comparing apples and oranges…and in fact that is the reason Hughes and Caufield were so good together. Everyone that criticized that UNTDP team is going to eat crow.

19 draft starting to look sooooooo good.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Hmm. Gagner had a 51 pts pace for RNH's first year, a 65 pts pace for his 2nd and a 45 pts pace for his 3rd. That's easily 2nd line production.

RNH also had Perron for his 3rd and 4th season. I think RNH had the better offensive players around him, but like I said I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

Well Gagner is a center, so it's not like they really played together. So we can scratch Gagner and Zajac from either side. Which leaves RNH with Hall and Eberle, and Hischier with MVP Hall and Palmieri. You bring up Perron for RNH 3rd and 4th year, but he was only really good for that 3rd year. I'll counter with Gusev, who was a good winger in Hischier's 3rd year. So again, quite similar, with I'd say an advantage for Hischier due to having a better version of Hall to play with.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Gotta laugh at some of the posts here.We've reach the point where people compare this guy to Pastrnak when he is nowhere near as talented at anything.

I'm happy with the drafting of Caufield at this rank but I'm not very enthused by his play. He's very one-dimensiona and is going to need to carry his weight a little more than that when he isn't a rookie anymore. Looks like his potential is as a borderline top-6 type of guy to me so far. If he does better than that, great!

 

[KovalSNIPE]

Jack Hughes is the next Patrik Stefan. Actually he might be the 2nd "Next Patrik Stefan" the devil's have drafted because Nico Hischier is doing a pretty good Patrik Stefan impersonation himself, just not quite as good as Jack's. Poor Devils .

lol look at that, your opinion matches your username

 

[Garbageyuk]

lol look at that, your opinion matches your username

Lol look at that, you think you're original.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

Well Gagner is a center, so it's not like they really played together. So we can scratch Gagner and Zajac from either side. Which leaves RNH with Hall and Eberle, and Hischier with MVP Hall and Palmieri. You bring up Perron for RNH 3rd and 4th year, but he was only really good for that 3rd year. I'll counter with Gusev, who was a good winger in Hischier's 3rd year. So again, quite similar, with I'd say an advantage for Hischier due to having a better version of Hall to play with.

Gusev is a reach, but I get it, you think that RNH is better. I strongly disagree, but I guess we'll have to find out in the next few years.

 

[majormajor]

When Caufield played his first NHL game, he was older than Hughes is now. This isn't a particularly meaningful comparison. I'm not even saying he doesn't have a shot at being better than Hughes, but this doesn't really tell you anything about whether that will happen.

Yes, and since Caufield is 5 months older than Jack Hughes, the best point of comparison for them would be what Hughes scores 5 months from now, so roughly in October and November of the new season.

Would it shock anyone if Hughes scores more than 12 pts in his first 22 games? That's roughly the pace of his full season as a 19 year old, so there's a strong chance that he outscores Caufield when he is 20.5 years old.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Gusev is a reach, but I get it, you think that RNH is better. I strongly disagree, but I guess we'll have to find out in the next few years.

Gusev isn't any more of a reach than Perron because we're really only talking about 1 season for each. RNH is/was better, and you don't really have anything to base your opinion on other than your feelings.

 

[majormajor]

You know that Stutzle guy sens fans are hyped about? He has the same 5 on 5 point pace as Caufield LMAO.

Wow this is childish.

So Caufield has the same 5 on 5 pace as a more skilled guy a full year younger than him. Bravo.

Pinto had 6 pts at 5 on 5 (he had an empty net point).
4 of those 6 pts were secondary assists.

Meanwhile Caufield had a primary point (goal or primary assist) on 7 of his 8 five on five points.

The impact they had on their points scored is not even close to the same level.

If the implication is that Shane Pinto's points overrepresent his impact on the game, and Cole Caufield's points underrepresent his, while Shane Pinto is the NCHC defensive player of the year and looks like a Selke winner in the making, and Caufield is a tiny cherry picker, well that would truly merit quite the "LMAO" as you kids say it.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Wow this is childish.

So Caufield has the same 5 on 5 pace as a more skilled guy a full year younger than him. Bravo.

More than half of the games Caufield played were in the playoffs where it's much harder to score goals.

What's childish is constantly trying to find excuses to discredit Caufield.

If the implication is that Shane Pinto's points overrepresent his impact on the game, and Cole Caufield's points underrepresent his, while Shane Pinto is the NCHC defensive player of the year and looks like a Selke winner in the making, and Caufield is a tiny cherry picker, well that would truly merit quite the "LMAO" as you kids say it.

Pinto, who has 12 pro games played, looks like a Selke winner in the making? ok lol.

 

[majormajor]

More than half of the games Caufield played were in the playoffs where it's much harder to score goals.

What's childish is constantly trying to find excuses to discredit Caufield.
.

I like Caufield plenty. He's doing well for a 20 year old in the NHL. Good job. You're just making bad arguments for him by comparing his production to teenagers or to guys who play a complete game.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Caufield somehow reminds me of Pasta.
I think habs hit that pick pretty nicely.

"But he's too small". That mentality drives me crazy. Can the guy play doesn't seem to factor into the top 3 of things that matter with scouting. Caulfield will put up 40 goals in a year or two. Hes another Debrincat.

 

[Panthaz89]

Hughes is definitely the better player atm

 

[FerrisRox]

Jack Hughes is the next Patrik Stefan. Actually he might be the 2nd "Next Patrik Stefan" the devil's have drafted because Nico Hischier is doing a pretty good Patrik Stefan impersonation himself, just not quite as good as Jack's. Poor Devils .

With all due respect, you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

It baffles me that people that don't know anything about a player still hit "reply" and then post utter nonsense that they make up.

Sure you realize this is a hockey discussion board filled with people that watch hockey who will be acutely aware that you are talking about a player you know absolutely nothing about, right?

Comparing him to Patrick Stefan just makes you look clueless.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Yes, and since Caufield is 5 months older than Jack Hughes, the best point of comparison for them would be what Hughes scores 5 months from now, so roughly in October and November of the new season.

Would it shock anyone if Hughes scores more than 12 pts in his first 22 games? That's roughly the pace of his full season as a 19 year old, so there's a strong chance that he outscores Caufield when he is 20.5 years old.

Why do you see that? Honest question.

---

He (Jack) was suppose to be next Patrick Kane, or at least few uber optimistic people were suggesting that.

His development has not been what was expected.

He still has lots of potential, still very young, but thus far his pro game vs USNTDP game has not matched,
not even close, where as Cole Caufield's,..he still plays the same hockey, needed only little adjustment period
to play well in the NHL as a pro. - Hughes is still struggling, has improved, yes, but still lots to do.

Caufield, how well he has played, how quickly adjusted to the pro game, to the NHL, shocking.
Althou, really shouldn't have come as that big of a surprise, due to the fact that
he has last 2 years, been honing his game in the NCAA, something that Hughes
did not have the luxury to do, blame him, blame the Devils but, facts are those.

 

[Mickey Marner]

One was 18, the other was 20.

 

[Ezpz]

Caufield is going to be a superstar. He adapts so quickly. His defensive game is already leagues ahead of where it was at the draft. His offensive game has adapted in less than 20 NHL games because teams are respecting his shot too much. He's using it to bait goalies into great passes. If they don't bite he just puts it in the net. 100 point potential on this kid.

 

[A Plus]

Yeah. He already did. And he did it in both the regular season and the playoff. He joined the Habs when the team is falling apart. Scored two OT goals and the Habs made the playoff by a point or two. Colefield is the main contributor for this unexpected run. What has Hughes done?

Hughes has been one of the leagues best transitional players before turning 20

 

[majormajor]

Why do you see that? Honest question.

---

He (Jack) was suppose to be next Patrick Kane, or at least few uber optimistic people were suggesting that.

His development has not been what was expected.

He still has lots of potential, still very young, but thus far his pro game vs USNTDP game has not matched,
not even close, where as Cole Caufield's,..he still plays the same hockey, needed only little adjustment period
to play well in the NHL as a pro. - Hughes is still struggling, has improved, yes, but still lots to do.

Caufield, how well he has played, how quickly adjusted to the pro game, to the NHL, shocking.
Althou, really shouldn't have come as that big of a surprise, due to the fact that
he has last 2 years, been honing his game in the NCAA, something that Hughes
did not have the luxury to do, blame him, blame the Devils but, facts are those.

Why? Hughes scored just above half a point per game last year, so next Fall he'd be expected to take a small step above that. And so he'll be expected to be ahead of the 12 pts in 22 games pace that Caufield has scored as a 20.5 year old. Pretty simple, right?

I think you're overstating it with Hughes. He shouldn't have started in the NHL and he's been disappointing sure, but he's still really good. He looks like a star player in transition and is excellent at winning pucks back, he just doesn't have the elite scoring tools, at least not yet.

 

[Draft]

Yes, and since Caufield is 5 months older than Jack Hughes, the best point of comparison for them would be what Hughes scores 5 months from now, so roughly in October and November of the new season.

Would it shock anyone if Hughes scores more than 12 pts in his first 22 games? That's roughly the pace of his full season as a 19 year old, so there's a strong chance that he outscores Caufield when he is 20.5 years old.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not with this reasoning. This is almost as bad as the initial premise of the thread.

A difference in 5 months for two players in the same draft year where neither is on the young or old end of that year is negligible for their development. This should really only be accounted for or considered when you have two guys that are being compared where this would have a significant impact on physical development - a good example being Brady Tkachuk being the oldest and most developed in his year versus Kotkaniemi who has nearly an entire year to reach the same rate of physical maturity. This has value when you're looking to project development curves or account for variations in their performance in very specific contexts.

The primary difference between the two players is their development path, not their physical/psychological maturity. There is no perfect or simple comparison here, simply footnotes on their performance in a season. Caufield was not *likely* at a level where he could have played a complete game in the NHL last year. Hughes disappointed when he was put in the NHL at the same age. We can draw some conclusions from that. This year, Hughes was up and down through the season and Caufield has been up and down as he plays his first games in the league. We can draw more conclusions.

Once we're at a point where we can minimize the differences between the contexts that each player is operating in - likely next year we simply compare their performance across the season - we can say more definitively where both players are at.

This thread is a treasure trove of bad takes.

 

[majormajor]

I can't tell if you're being serious or not with this reasoning. This is almost as bad as the initial premise of the thread.

A difference in 5 months for two players in the same draft year where neither is on the young or old end of that year is negligible for their development. This should really only be accounted for or considered when you have two guys that are being compared where this would have a significant impact on physical development - a good example being Brady Tkachuk being the oldest and most developed in his year versus Kotkaniemi who has nearly an entire year to reach the same rate of physical maturity. This has value when you're looking to project development curves or account for variations in their performance in very specific contexts.

The primary difference between the two players is their development path, not their physical/psychological maturity. There is no perfect or simple comparison here, simply footnotes on their performance in a season. Caufield was not *likely* at a level where he could have played a complete game in the NHL last year. Hughes disappointed when he was put in the NHL at the same age. We can draw some conclusions from that. This year, Hughes was up and down through the season and Caufield has been up and down as he plays his first games in the league. We can draw more conclusions.

Once we're at a point where we can minimize the differences between the contexts that each player is operating in - likely next year we simply compare their performance across the season - we can say more definitively where both players are at.

This thread is a treasure trove of bad takes.

Not at all. 19 to 20 is typically a huge jump in output for players. If that's on average a 20% jump then a 5 month difference is about an 8% jump, which would put Hughes ahead of Caufield's pace as a 20.5 year old. Obviously all of that is just "on average" but until these two players are at a point where you can compare them at the same age, you don't have firm footing for a comparison.

 

[Draft]

Not at all. 19 to 20 is typically a huge jump in output for players. If that's on average a 20% jump then a 5 month difference is about an 8% jump, which would put Hughes ahead of Caufield's pace as a 20.5 year old. Obviously all of that is just "on average" but until these two players are at a point where you can compare them at the same age, you don't have firm footing for a comparison.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but that is a fantastically poor application of those statistics and a really bad argument.

 

[majormajor]

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but that is a fantastically poor application of those statistics and a really bad argument.

Okay I'll just defer to your immense authority on this.

We prefer different methods, deal with it.

 

[North Cole]

40 pts is obviously impressive, but pts aren't everything. Ask Oiler fans who want Barrie gone asap.

RNH was also on better offensive teams with better players. Started his career playing with a bunch of high picks, unlike Hischier. Beside Hall for his first season, Hischier hasn't played with any high-end offensive player.

Most oiler fans don't want Barrie gone, just don't want to pay him 6mx6+

 

[That Habs Fan]

Kind of hard to believe Montreal hasn't had a Calder trophy winner since Ken Dryden in 1971-72.

Caufield is eligible next season.