Salary Cap: How much AAV are you willing to give Tyson Barrie on a 7-8 year extension?

[Busher Jackson]

So Dubas traded Kadri for Kerfoot?
Fire him

Yes and for one year of Barrie. And remember he has let Gardiner walk.

 

[qqaz]

If we do nothing this year and Barrie tests UFA and walks, all that "value" meant nothing.

That's the case with every deadline trade of all time. And that was the case with Leonard and the Raptors. But you can't complain already when those things might not happen.

We might not win in the next 5 years, and Matthews could walk. Does that possibility mean we drafted the wrong guy? Nope.

 

[Nithoniniel]

If we do nothing this year and Barrie tests UFA and walks, all that "value" meant nothing.

And I presume, following that logic, that if Avs achieve nothing in the two years after that and Kadri walks, they got no value too? After that it's just one year before Kerfoot is of no value.

Long-term, it was a trade of no value for no value. Unless someone wins the cup, of course.

 

[Busher Jackson]

Wrong. Ceci is a UFA. So $21 million. Muzzin is UFA too.

They have many options. And it's not like there won't be more movement.

Cap Friendly numbers. They have $26 mil for the 20-21 season without Marner signed and 11 signed. Assuming Marner gets $10 mil. that makes 12 signed and 16 mil cap space. Easy to check the numbers.

 

[kb]

Cap Friendly numbers. They have $26 mil for the 20-21 season without Marner signed and 11 signed. Assuming Marner gets $10 mil. that makes 12 signed and 16 mil cap space. Easy to check the numbers.

Ceci and Muzzin are off the books at the end of the season.. That's even easier to check. So $24.5 million before any cap increase. Most contracts coming off the books are at or near league minimum. And will be replaced by more league minimum contracts or ELCs.

Plenty of space.

 

[Busher Jackson]

Ceci and Muzzin are off the books at the end of the season.. That's even easier to check. So $24.5 million before any cap increase. Most contracts coming off the books are at or near league minimum. And will be replaced by more league minimum contracts or ELCs.

Plenty of space.

According to Cap Friendly there is only $16 mil of cap space for the 20-21 season with Marner signed at $10 mil. That is 12 players signed. Obviously Ceci and Muzzin are not signed. If you need to get up to date on leafs cap situation the go to source is Cap Friendly. Sorry I assumed everyone knew this info.

 

[Busher Jackson]

Ceci and Muzzin are off the books at the end of the season.. That's even easier to check. So $24.5 million before any cap increase. Most contracts coming off the books are at or near league minimum. And will be replaced by more league minimum contracts or ELCs.

Plenty of space.

Maybe another way will help you understand $54.3 mil on forwards with Marner at $10 mil. Freddie and Rielly $10 mil. $1.2 mil on Kessel. That is $65.5 mil leaving $16 mil in cap space for 20-21 if cap stays at $81.5 mil.

 

[Legion34]

Why not?

He's playing second line centre for the Avs..

Did you see last year? He was horrific

 

[Legion34]

Cap Friendly numbers. They have $26 mil for the 20-21 season without Marner signed and 11 signed. Assuming Marner gets $10 mil. that makes 12 signed and 16 mil cap space. Easy to check the numbers.

You need to look again.

 

[DarkKnight]

Honestly, if your counter "argument" is "if you dont agree with me you're biased" you need to ask yourself if you're equipped to be a part of the discussion.

Whether you look at things in terms of net value or yearly surplus/deficit we at worst break even.

Equipped. Good one! Man.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

So we've created instability on the blue line..... Got rid of the last bit of sandpaper on the team....to go all in on a year where well likely have another hold out from a top forward. Genius I tell you.

We bought development time for lilly possibly and gained a very well rounded multi tool utility winger/center in Kerfoot and he is at a lesser cap hit than kadri. Kerfoot is a premier defensive forward that kills penalties and scores at a very respectable rate to boot.

Barrie is only half his cap hit for a defenseman that is top ten in scoring in his position and he is a need for the right side. Great trade for both teams as Kadri will get to be the second line center in Colorado.

Marner might and might not get signed right away. I believe he will. I like the changes. You have issue with them. I see a better defense actually and very little instability created.

He’s a rental and all teams do it. If that’s instability then its common place is all i can say.

 

[kb]

Cap Friendly numbers. They have $26 mil for the 20-21 season without Marner signed and 11 signed. Assuming Marner gets $10 mil. that makes 12 signed and 16 mil cap space. Easy to check the numbers.

Apologies. You are correct. My mistake. I was looking at this year's numbers as next year's. I still believe they will make room for him if he plays well. They will trade a Johnsson or Kapanen to get more room. Sandin and Liljegren will most likely be on the team next year.

 

[DarkKnight]

One for one I agree. But a 25 year old 45 pt C at 3.5 x 4 is still value.

Kadri is 29 and can’t play 3 C.

I like the trade, I’m just saying I’ve assumed Barrie re-signing as part of the deal. I don’t recall anyone giving it a thumbs up otherwise at the time of the trade. I agree Kadri is under utilized on the third line here, so the swap out is less a negative than at face value...but we’re trading a second line C, so how he fit here is a secondary consideration for me trade wise.

 

[Legion34]

I like the trade, I’m just saying I’ve assumed Barrie re-signing as part of the deal. I don’t recall anyone giving it a thumbs up otherwise at the time of the trade. I agree Kadri is under utilized on the third line here, so the swap out is less a negative than at face value...but we’re trading a second line C, so how he fit here is a secondary consideration for me trade wise.

I think he could be.
We will have 12 million for 2 D.
I think we end up losing mango and sign 2 D. Unless we are worried about the expansion draft.

If it were me I would sign say muzzin but give all bonuses loaded right up for the Vegas draft so no one takes him.

 

[DarkKnight]

I think he could be.
We will have 12 million for 2 D.
I think we end up losing mango and sign 2 D. Unless we are worried about the expansion draft.

If it were me I would sign say muzzin but give all bonuses loaded right up for the Vegas draft so no one takes him.

Agreed,I’d hate to lose Muzzin...he brings an element we need back there.

 

[kb]

Agreed,I’d hate to lose Muzzin...he brings an element we need back there.

They could move a Johnsson or Kapanen for a prospect or picks, and potentially sign both.

 

[DarkKnight]

They could move a Johnsson or Kapanen for a prospect or picks, and potentially sign both.

That might be an option. We know we have two D coming, so we can replace internally...I just wonder who brings what a Muzzin does, in terms of D balance he’s kind of unique with Zaits and Hainsey gone.

 

[kb]

That might be an option. We know we have two D coming, so we can replace internally...I just wonder who brings what a Muzzin does, in terms of D balance he’s kind of unique with Zaits and Hainsey gone.

I like what Muzzin brings too. It's desperately needed with this current lineup.

More Cap acrobatics coming next summer.

 

[The Iceman]

If we do nothing this year and Barrie walks then we lose.

Congrats Dubas, you just traded Kadri for Kerfoot and some loose change.

So it appears you are counting one year of Barrie as zero value? Why??

 

[Bomber0104]

So it appears you are counting one year of Barrie as zero value? Why??

I never said that.

I said if he walks and we don't make any noise this year then we lose the trade and all that "value" for one year he provided meant nothing

Where in that statement did I say he provides "zero value"?

 

[Busher Jackson]

You need to look again.

Still the same for 20-21. Marner at $10 mil only $16 mil in cap space. Time for you top check.

 

[Busher Jackson]

Apologies. You are correct. My mistake. I was looking at this year's numbers as next year's. I still believe they will make room for him if he plays well. They will trade a Johnsson or Kapanen to get more room. Sandin and Liljegren will most likely be on the team next year.

I expect both Sandin and Liljegren to make the team. That leaves $14 mil in cap space for 5 d-men, 2 forwards and a backup goalie. Good backup costs $1.2 mil and $1.5 mil for two NHL/AHL tweeners at forward that leaves $11.3 for 5 d-men. Even if you trade kappy and Barrie at $8 mil that leaves $6.8 mil for four d-men which means they will be all 6-7 guys. Thats two vets, two rookies and two #6 d-men and two AHL/NHL tweeners.

 

[gabeliscious]

I expect both Sandin and Liljegren to make the team. That leaves $14 mil in cap space for 5 d-men, 2 forwards and a backup goalie. Good backup costs $1.2 mil and $1.5 mil for two NHL/AHL tweeners at forward that leaves $11.3 for 5 d-men. Even if you trade kappy and Barrie at $8 mil that leaves $6.8 mil for four d-men which means they will be all 6-7 guys. Thats two vets, two rookies and two #6 d-men and two AHL/NHL tweeners.

hyman (2.25) matthews (11.634) nylander (6.96)
johnsson (3.4) tavares (11) marner (10.5)
moore (0.775) kerfoot (3.5) xxxxxx
xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxx

rielly (5) barrie (8)
dermott (3.5) xxxxxx
sandin (0.894) lily (0.863)

anderson (5)
xxxxxx

kessel (1.2)

leafs 4th line now is apx. $2.5 million. Backup goalie is $700,000. If leafs trade kapanen for futures they can potentially slot bracco on the 3rd line at less then a million which would leave around $3 million for a second pairing rd. This is assuming the cap doesnt go up, marner signs for $10.5 and barrie is extended at $8 million. I am not convinced that marner will get $10.5 and i am not convinced it will take $8 million to get barrie. I am also not sure dermott will cost $3.5. they could probably bridge him for less if they had to.

the point is that it will be super tight but not completely impossible.

 

[Legion34]

I never said that.

I said if he walks and we don't make any noise this year then we lose the trade and all that "value" for one year he provided meant nothing

Where in that statement did I say he provides "zero value"?

And if the avs don’t win?

 

[Bomber0104]

And if the avs don’t win?

Then they upgraded their centre position at the expense of an expiring D-man they had no intention of re-signing at a UFA price.

You know, something Dubas should have had the stones to do with Gardiner last year instead of letting him walk for nothing...