How many years has Sidney Crosby been the best player?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Jwill8, Dec 7, 2018 at 4:06 AM.

  1. daver

    daver Registered User

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    Crosby was better on a per game basis in the playoffs during OV's peak if one chooses to only compare 1st and 2nd round performances. It's pretty silly to say a 77 point, 1.35 PPG performance against including two series against one of the best teams of the era, is worse than a 40 point, 1.43 PPG.

    OV was great, but he also had the greenlight to disregard any sense of defense or 2-way play. I will give the edge to the player who was solid defensively while playing the more responsible position while matching OV's offense.
     
  2. StrangeVision

    StrangeVision HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    There wasn't a player in the league I'd have taken over Crosby during his career until McDavid arrived.
     
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  3. Midnight Judges

    Midnight Judges Registered User Sponsor

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    OK fair enough. You can argue they were on a similar level.
     
  4. daver

    daver Registered User

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    Anyone could see that OV had no regard for defense in those days. It's not a critique.
     
  5. snipes

    snipes Registered User

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    Not a good analogy
     
  6. chethejet

    chethejet Registered User

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    If you ask the players all will tell you Crosby. Why? They know just how good he is in all aspects of the game. Has he lost a little yes. But watch him play and he is still the guy teams fear the most. The constant comparison to OVI is a joke. OVI is a goal scorer and that is that. Like the Laine, he has that ability to score but he is not better that a center who can take face offs, distribute the puck and set up team mates on a consistent basis. But after seeing Mathews, and all the other younger players of note, no one offers the complete game Crosby offers. Win cups and go to finals before naming anyone better.
     
  7. BackToTheBasics

    BackToTheBasics Registered User

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    It didn't matter because he dominated possession in the offensive zone. He didn't have to worry about playing defense. It's not like Crosby was any good on defense either. Just because he's a center, that doesn't suddenly make him some defensive specialist.
     
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  8. daver

    daver Registered User

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    The old excuse, never gets tired. You just gave the reason why the Caps never won the Cup until last year when he did worry about defense.
     
  9. daver

    daver Registered User

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    OV circa '07 to '10 was an all around offensive threat that a good enough reason to be compared with Crosby at the time. OV was not able to play at that level again as he morphed into mainly a triggerman while Crosby has lost very little offensively while being the prototypical franchise #1C, perhaps only bettered by Beliveau.
     
  10. Habs 4 Life

    Habs 4 Life No Excuses

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    Pretty much this and even then I might have still taken Crosby in McDavid's 1st season
     
  11. FinProspects

    FinProspects Registered User

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    He had 66 in 41, and 73 in 52, Led the scoring in both cases until injury. He was the best player on the ice when played. Or should we completely ignore this and just look at the absolute numbers without any context?

    Last year, yeah, underwhelming, but still a solid season.
     
  12. daver

    daver Registered User

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    If you took McDavid in his 1st and 2nd season, the Pens don't win the Cup.
     
  13. BackToTheBasics

    BackToTheBasics Registered User

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    That's just an easy narrative to create. Written like someone who hasn't watched a single game playoff game prior to last season. You lost credibility in any argument involving Crosby a long time ago. The fact that you still believe he's on McDavid's level just shows how delusional you are.
     
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  14. Sour Shoes

    Sour Shoes 5Cups beats 2Cups

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    The hart trophy isn't awarded to the 'best player'. yet, some attempt to use it as ammo in best player discussions. weird.
     
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  15. steleh

    steleh Registered User

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    Oh give me a break. Im NOT saying OV was the better player, but describing Crosby as some defensive stalwart during those years is just wrong. He was OK, average, perhaps even slightly better than average but that's it.
     
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  16. daver

    daver Registered User

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    If you are referring to the narrative that "both weren't winning Selkes so who cares?", I agree. It became clear as the years went on that Crosby was a much versatile player offensively, and overall. There is nothing he didn't do well. That he can play with any quality of winger and deployment and still produce does not get enough attention.

    You want to see quality objective narrative, check out the HOH Top 100 players project.
     
  17. daver

    daver Registered User

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    You don't have to be a defensive stalwart to be a clearly more effective defensive player than OV until he changed that in 14/15.
     
  18. Sam Spade

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    :thumbu:

    :laugh::laugh:
     
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  19. steleh

    steleh Registered User

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    You are 100% correct. Which makes me wonder why you had to exaggerate Crosby's defensive abilities to make your point when you didn't even have to
     
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  20. bobholly39

    bobholly39 Registered User

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    We're obviously in the minority but that's how I see things too. Of course to argue this you have to be pretty loose with the term "best player in the world" - no question about that, but that's how I generally view it when I talk about best player in the world. Ie in the late 90s, to me it's Jagr/Hasek - not Jagr *or* Hasek.

    If a discussion wants to be had about who had the absolute best performance/season in a given year, different topic with only 1 guy eligible and Crosby looks a lot worst.

    But I don't think if you asked someone in 2015, 2013, 2009 or 2016 who the "best hockey player in the world was" - that Crosby's name wouldn't come up in a large majority of cases.

    I would also argue that:

    - You can probably take that title away from Crosby at some point between this season (18-19) or even last year. I think most people today say McDavid surpassed him, and Crosby hasn't really done anything to warrant being #1 still.

    - You should add McDavid to 2016-2017. Maybe in the moment, you don't add him that year (see if it's sustainable and not just a lucky season) - but since he's now showing consistency, absolutely McDavid as co best in 16-17.

    - MacKinnon in my book is well on his way to working his way into the conversation alongside McDavid this year. If he makes this sustainable - i add his name back retroactively to last year too.
     
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  21. JackSlater

    JackSlater Registered User

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    At least four specific seasons (2007, 2011, 2013, 2014) and outside of that there are several debatable years. I would give Crosby 2015 as well. 2008 he was close to Ovechkin until he hurt his ankle. 2009 and 2010 were relative off years and Ovechkin was at his peak, though 2010 saw Crosby improve defensively so there's that. 2012 had too many missed games and Malkin was great enough that year that he deserves to have the season. 2016 I could honestly see going to Crosby, but I guess you should probably lean Kane. 2017 and 2018 Crosby is in the running but I wouldn't select him.
     
  22. bobholly39

    bobholly39 Registered User

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    Still today - most technically do.

    If you started a poll "pick a player for a playoff run" Crosby usually wins over McDavid. Heck he might even win the "pick a player for this season alone" - assuming it includes playoffs too, though that's probably more debatable.

    I don't think Crosby has regressed in anyway. He's as good as he's ever been - and that's easily comparable (slightly better?) to McDavid's best. But he just can't sustain that rhythm over a full year anymore. He typically steps up in playoffs though
     
  23. drs151

    drs151 Registered User

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    I would call him the best in about 8 out of his 13 seasons
     
  24. drs151

    drs151 Registered User

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    This is exactly right. Players like malkin Ovechkin had some better years but I don’t think one gm that didn’t want to get fired would have started a team with anyone but Crosby until like you said Mcdavid arrived. And the reason for that is because he gives you the best chance to win
     
  25. Sam Spade

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    Eh, as a fan I wouldn't trade a single season of cheering for Ovechkin for any player since he has come into the league.
     
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