How many years has Sidney Crosby been the best player?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Jwill8, Dec 7, 2018 at 4:06 AM.

  1. SpinningEdge

    SpinningEdge Registered User

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    In his last 8 seasons he has ONE 90+ point season.

    He’s a very good player. A franchise player. However, he has ONE regular season award (Rocket in a down year where 44 goals won) in the last four seasons.

    I don’t think he cares though. He knows he can be the best in the world when he wants to be - just like other all-time greats later in their career. Younger guys like Matthews, McDavid, Mackinnon, Kucherov, etc are about establishing themselves right now. Winning is important - and I truly believe when you’re a proven elite guy that winning over getting points/etc mean more. Why? Crosby... ovi... guys like that have nothing left to prove. Individual stuff is second to team success. Just like in a year or two McDavid will only care about winning only.

    If Crosby wanted to win the scoring race, he probably could. If ovi wanted to for sure score 60 goals, he probably could. However, that stuff isn’t as important to them at this point on their careers. It’s about being ready in April - and winning mostly.

    Heck, I’ve seen Crosby on pulled goalie situations just clear it. I’ve also seen Pitt up where he’s just grinding away to Jett’s help win and not care about points at times.Just last week ovi had a open net goal but passed it to Backsttom for an assist instead. It’s jusf where they are in their careers.
     
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  2. TheGuiminator

    TheGuiminator Registered User

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    From 2005 to 2009 :
    Aside of the 06-07 season, it wasn’t clear who was the best in the world, it was back and fourth between Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin.

    From 2010 to 2014 : Was the best in the world.

    From 2015 to 2017 : Was among the best, but was being portrayed as the best especially in the media and by most of the HF but it wasn’t that obvious when you look at his stats. His two Stanley Cup runs during that period outweighed his «disappointing » season stats, but keep in mind that he wasn’t dominating his peers like he did in his peak

    Now : He’s 3rd behind Mackinnon & McDavid, but the gap is close. Right now he’s playing his best hockey since 13-14 IMO
     
  3. Midnight Judges

    Midnight Judges Registered User Sponsor

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    Crosby has been the best player in the NHL precisely twice - both times when he won the Hart (2007 and 2014).

    In every other season there were players who were clearly superior.
     
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  4. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Pretty much this.

    Sure guys can have a better night, week, month and even a season but in 2-3 year stretches Crosby has been the most impactful player in the league from year 2 in the league.

    And he was already pretty close in his rookie year as well.
     
  5. Gold Standard

    Gold Standard Registered User

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    since the day he entered the league. that's how long.
     
  6. FinProspects

    FinProspects Registered User

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    It seemed that the majority of the Crosby-haters were quitened (is that a word) after his b2b Smythes. But its always fun to see a flash from the past, with a posts like that. I'm sure you know this already, but just to be sure: That's a very, very interesting AND ignorant way of putting things for sure:)

    Sid's career will always be with some questions marks on how dominant he has been, thats because of injuries in his peak years. But most likely everyone who have actually watched him play, and not just cherrypick random stats like above, would agree him being the best player in the planet for good amount of the time in the last 10 years.

    How I see it:
    06-07 Sid
    07-08 Ovie
    08-09 Malkin
    09-10 Ovie
    10-11 Sid
    11-12 Malkin
    12-15 Sid
    15-16 Kane
    16-18 McDavid

    So I'd give him 5 seasons being the best,BUT..

    in 07-10, he was basically the 1b/1c with Geno, especially if you consider the playoff being a factor of any kind.
    15-17 he was either the second best behind Kane and 1b with Connor.

    There's no other player who has been year in year out being that good consistently. Is he missing the absolutely and utterly dominant peak, like the all time greats have had? Sure, but thats only because of injuries. If you think about 10-13, that's three peak seasons ruined due injuries. And I think we can all agree that Sid was producing that time well above any other player in the world. The fact that he has 1 Lindsay to show of those three seasons is a pity, but thats life.

    So to answer the question: Looking at single seasons individually, he has been the best for 5 years. Ovie, Malkin, Connor have 2, Kane has 1. Looking at the last 11 years in overall level, he has been the best player.
     
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  7. Midnight Judges

    Midnight Judges Registered User Sponsor

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    I like how when Ovechkin wins the Hart with 128 first place votes to Crosby's 0 (and second place had 2), Crosby fans come away thinking "They're 1a and 1b. Crosby was right there with Ovi!"

    The echo chamber north of the border is hilarious.
     
  8. FinProspects

    FinProspects Registered User

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    Can you remind me who was clearly superior on 12-13? Or doesnt the lockout season count?
     
  9. Midnight Judges

    Midnight Judges Registered User Sponsor

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    So Ovechkin crushes Malkin 115 to 12 for the Hart, and you think Ovechkin scoring 1.5 PPGs and 11 goals and 14 playoff games at + 11 is such a detriment that Malkin passes him?

    That just isn't reasonable.

    Ovechkin was the best player in the world during that stretch and it's not particularly close. If any of you can look at these stats and come away thinking anything else, something is wrong with your brain:

    NHL.com - Stats
     
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  10. Midnight Judges

    Midnight Judges Registered User Sponsor

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    Ovechkin was. He had more than twice as many goals as Crosby and carried his team to the playoffs.
     
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  11. Todd from Leduc

    Todd from Leduc Registered User

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    2005-2014, then McDavid happened
     
  12. FinProspects

    FinProspects Registered User

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    The point being here: Sid has always been, if not at the top, than very, very close to it. We have Ovie and Malkin (who are the only comparables here) who have had medicore seasons for their standard. Sid just hasnt had those. His worst season has probably been in 15-16 where he was only tad above ppg in reg season. That season had to a lot with coaching, with Johnston he was well under ppg, and with Sullivan he scored with over 100p pace.
     
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  13. daver

    daver Registered User

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    Wow, how on earth did you decide that 8 seasons was the cutoff? That must have been a tough decision to make.

    And I am sure equally hard was choosing 4 seasons as the cutoff for regular season awards.
     
  14. FinProspects

    FinProspects Registered User

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    I'm afraid you are quite alone with that opinion.
     
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  15. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    He was the best player in '05-06?
     
  16. Solzhenitsyn

    Solzhenitsyn Registered User

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    How are you not embarrassed to post this ****?
     
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  17. Midnight Judges

    Midnight Judges Registered User Sponsor

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    That is totally false. Sid has seasons of 37 points, 66 points, and 72 points, in addition to not being a top 20 player last season. Sid was nowhere near the top last year. A complete non factor in Hart voting.
     
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  18. Midnight Judges

    Midnight Judges Registered User Sponsor

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    Alone with the Hart voters lol.
     
  19. Midnight Judges

    Midnight Judges Registered User Sponsor

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    Sid has been firmly an 80 something point player under Sullivan.
     
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  20. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    He had a good run from 2010-2016. Was also the best in '07 and in the discussion from '08-'10 (by the end of the '09 playoffs Ovechkin was better, if not Malkin as well, in my opinion). He was still at least on par with McDavid in '17 but not after that.
     
  21. BackToTheBasics

    BackToTheBasics Registered User

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    The only years where he was clearly the best player were 2007, 2013, and 2014. One could make an argument for 2017 as well but McDavid was right there.
     
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  22. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    It doesn't matter that he outscored Ovechkin in the playoffs in 2009 because Ovechkin was clearly better that season and he was more productive in the playoffs on a per game basis as well (I've pointed this out to you in the past and you didn't reply).

    The only argument is, "he won the Cup; therefore, he was better." That's flawed.

    And if you're going to say that, then 2018 Ovechkin > Crosby because they were close in the season (closer than in 2009) and Ovechkin outscored him in the playoffs and won the Cup.
     
  23. daver

    daver Registered User

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    In '08 he was .01 PPG behind OV, granted OV gets a a bigger edge with his goal totals that year, then leads the playoffs in scoring. This was after creating a clear gap after the 06/07 season. Malkin was very good but Crosby was still better.

    In '09, all three are on the same level after than year. Crosby is clearly more effective 2-way player than OV while matching his offensive production.
     
  24. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    Yeah, check the advanced stats and Selke voting for '09.
     
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  25. FinProspects

    FinProspects Registered User

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    I'm still pushing for the _clearly_ word there. How is 1090 vs 1058 hart votes clearly superior? IIRC it was the most close Hart voting in history.
     

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