How many years has Sidney Crosby been the best player?

[Midnight Judges]

Bobby Clarke and Bobby Orr have the same amount of Hart Trophies. Are they equal?

I cited it as evidence. I didn't say it was always proportionately and precisely indicative.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

16-17 season
Crosby was better than Mcdavid in the World Cup (this was a tourney created by the NHL, for NHL players only.

Was 0.3 ppg behind him in the regular season. Came 2nd in hart voting and the won the smythe and Cup.

16-17 was Crosby’s year

 

[Pancakes]

I think he's been the best player since his sophomore year until up to this/last year when Connor took over. There's no question guys like have Ovechkin, Malkin … etc, have had better years (obviously in the injury years and even in some of the healthy years), but despite that, he still was always the best player in the world to me. If that makes sense.

For me, Ovechkin was the best player from 05-6 until around 2010 and then since then Crosby was the best until last year when Mcdavid took over.

Despite that Crosby has always been at least top 5 since he's been in the league though.

 

[Pancakes]

Crosby has been the best player in the NHL precisely twice - both times when he won the Hart (2007 and 2014).

In every other season there were players who were clearly superior.

He had the same amount of points as Ovechkin in 2012-13 and in 12 less games. Pretty confident he wins that Hart if he doesn't get hit in the jaw by Orpik's slapper.

 

[filinski77]

Seasons?
06-07
12-13
13-14
16-17

Best player in the world? 11-17

First reasonable post by a pens fan in the thread so far, I applaud you sir!

 

[Midnight Judges]

He had the same amount of points as Ovechkin in 2012-13 and in 12 less games. Pretty confident he wins that Hart if he doesn't get hit in the jaw by Orpik's slapper.

You could say the same for Ovie in 2010.

But those things didn't happen.

 

[george14]

Hasn't he won the Art Ross like 2 times? He doesn't bring much defensively (despite what some people may think) so i would say that unless he lead the league in scoring he wasn't the best.

This is exactly the type of response I expected.

How many years has LeBron won MVP? Lead in scoring? It's not just about numbers. If I'm not mistaken, Crosby has been top 10 in Selke voting the past few years and still producing at an elite scoring pace. Looking at his seasons where he did not miss significant time, he's won every major award. Last year was his worst healthy season and he finished in the top 10 in points and was producing at an insane rate in the playoffs.

People are so narrow minded it's unreal. Is Tom Brady (maybe not now because he is 41) not the best QB in the game because he didn't win MVP or throw the most TDs? Aside from Aaron Rodgers, the guy has been the best QB for like 15 years.

 

[Varan]

another crosby v ovechkin thread?

 

[Pancakes]

You could say the same for Ovie in 2010.

But those things didn't happen.

Sure. I understand being skeptical about something like say Crosby keeping up his 2010-11 pace since he'd only played half a season. It's a little bit easier to extrapolate that Ovechkin would have comfortably won the Ross in 2010 with 10 more games played, and that Crosby would have comfortably done the same in 2012-13.

That they didn't was bad luck, nothing more.

Trophies that are voted on aren't the best barometer of player success anyways since those things are necessarily subjective. If you look at career production, and when that production happened, it's fairly obvious Ovechkin was the better player from 05-6 to 2010, and that Crosby was better from 2010-2016. And that since then, Mcdavid has been king.

 

[StoneHands]

This is exactly the type of response I expected.

How many years has LeBron won MVP? Lead in scoring? It's not just about numbers. If I'm not mistaken, Crosby has been top 10 in Selke voting the past few years and still producing at an elite scoring pace. Looking at his seasons where he did not miss significant time, he's won every major award. Last year was his worst healthy season and he finished in the top 10 in points and was producing at an insane rate in the playoffs.

People are so narrow minded it's unreal. Is Tom Brady (maybe not now because he is 41) not the best QB in the game because he didn't win MVP or throw the most TDs? Aside from Aaron Rodgers, the guy has been the best QB for like 15 years.

Crosby is the best player of this generation but to say he wins awards any time he's healthy isn't true. He's been more likely to win no awards when healthy as he is to win an award. He's had 9 seasons where he's played 75+ games and in 5 of those 9 seasons he didn't win a single regular season award. It's hard to factor in the Smythe because it's really limited to a handful of players that make the SCF and 99% of the time it's someone from the Cup winning team but even if you factor it in that's 4 out of 9 seasons with nothing.

 

[kladorf2005]

Of course not.

But those are down years. Those are crappy seasons, especially for ~$9M cap hit. Being injured, as a professional athlete, is not a neutral event. It is a negative event.

Being durable avoiding blindside headshots from David f***ing Steckel is a virtue in all professional sports.

FTFY

 

[DrewGl]

A decade later the crosby/ovi/possibly malkin threads go on....

 

[North Cole]

Best player (s) in the league when taking more than one regular season into consiseration in the Crosby era:

05/06 - Jagr/Thornton/Lidstrom maybe
06/07 - Crosby/Thornton
07/08 - Crosby/OV
08/09 - Crosby/Malkin/OV
09/10 - Crosby/OV
10/11 - Crosby/OV
11/12 - Crosby/Malkin
12/13- Crosby
13/14 - Crosby
14/15 - Crosby
15/16 - Crosby/Kane
16/17 - Crosby
17/18 -Crosby/McDavid

Crosby was no where in sight last year. How long is this damn grace period going to last? Until his name comes off the cup??

 

[Beukeboom]

Best player (s) in the league when taking more than one regular season into consiseration in the Crosby era:

05/06 - Jagr/Thornton/Lidstrom maybe
06/07 - Crosby/Thornton
07/08 - Crosby/OV
08/09 - Crosby/Malkin/OV
09/10 - Crosby/OV
10/11 - Crosby/OV
11/12 - Crosby/Malkin
12/13- Crosby
13/14 - Crosby
14/15 - Crosby
15/16 - Crosby/Kane
16/17 - Crosby
17/18 -Crosby/McDavid

I agree with many but have to question;

10/11 and 11/12. Calling him the best player when he only played half the season one year and 22 games the second. You have to understand particularly the second one is insane, especially since his playoff stats weren't good. You're way too biased. "What ifs" can't be extrapolated on 22 games. Malkin had 109 points in 75 games and Stamkos scored 60 goals but Crosby was better or tied based of 22 games?

Also why was he better than Ovechkin 14/15? A draw seems a tad more reasonable?

And finally last year you can't say it was a draw with McDavid just because Pittsburgh had a better team and made the play offs. McDavid got 19 points more in a way worse team. That is enough to be considered better in my books. And also following your own standards. I mean you can't say Crosby had more points than McDavid counting the play offs since Mcdavid wasn't in it and at the same time award Crosby the best player a season he only played 22 games. That is the very definition of double standard.

Edit: Actually even 09/10 is debatable using your own extrapolating skills. Ovechkin and Crosby in a tie with Ovechkin having 9 games in hand and beeing at a 124 point pace. That season has to go to Ovie too.

 

[GlitchMarner]

If Crosby wasn't close to Thornton in '06 how was OV close enough to Crosby in '07 to vault ahead the next year? Crosby outscored him by 30%.

If you don't think playing two back to back Cup finals needs to be considered then I don't know what to tell you. Nice cherrypicking of one series to try to diminish Crosby's playoff resume BTW.

I said that Ovechkin was good enough in '08 that '09 vaulted him ahead. It's right there. I don't know how you missed that.

I also think it's funny you put Crosby up there with Thornton in '07 after Thornton was a lot better the previous season, but you don't put McDavid with Crosby in '16-'17.

If you add playoff points to regular season points (like you did for Ovechkin and Crosby in '09), Thornton had as many as Crosby (125 each in 2007) - how did Crosby do enough to put himself on Thornton's level if McDavid didn't do enough in '17 to put himself on Crosby's?

 

[daver]

I agree with many but have to question;

10/11 and 11/12. Calling him the best player when he only played half the season one year and 22 games the second. You have to understand particularly the second one is insane, especially since his playoff stats weren't good. You're way too biased. "What ifs" can't be extrapolated on 22 games. Malkin had 109 points in 75 games and Stamkos scored 60 goals but Crosby was better or tied based of 22 games?

Also why was he better than Ovechkin 14/15? A draw seems a tad more reasonable?

And finally last year you can't say it was a draw with McDavid just because Pittsburgh had a better team and made the play offs. McDavid got 19 points more in a way worse team. That is enough to be considered better in my books. And also following your own standards. I mean you can't say Crosby had more points than McDavid counting the play offs since Mcdavid wasn't in it and at the same time award Crosby the best player a season he only played 22 games. That is the very definition of double standard.

Edit: Actually even 09/10 is debatable using your own extrapolating skills. Ovechkin and Crosby in a tie with Ovechkin having 9 games in hand and beeing at a 124 point pace. That season has to go to Ovie too.

It's not meant to reflect just individual regular seasons. OV wouldn't be there in 10/11 or maybe McDavid after this season if that was the case.

 

[daver]

Crosby was no where in sight last year. How long is this damn grace period going to last? Until his name comes off the cup??

Do we really have to go through why Crosby was still the best player after the 16/17 season again? One regular season below his standards is not enough to knock him off.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Best player (s) in the league when taking more than one regular season into consiseration in the Crosby era:

05/06 - Jagr/Thornton/Lidstrom maybe
06/07 - Crosby/Thornton
07/08 - Crosby/OV
08/09 - Crosby/Malkin/OV
09/10 - Crosby/OV
10/11 - Crosby/OV
11/12 - Crosby/Malkin
12/13- Crosby
13/14 - Crosby
14/15 - Crosby
15/16 - Crosby/Kane
16/17 - Crosby
17/18 -Crosby/McDavid

Crosby shouldn't be awarded best player status in years he missed alot of games

 

[Novak Djokovic]

I hate Crosby threads. Both sides are so irrational.

Only thing I will say is that, there should be no hesitation to call him the best player in 2010/11 even though he only played half the season. That was just ridiculous. He was also easily the best player in the 12-13 lockout season.

 

[412 Others]

As far as 'best seasons' go, I'm puzzled that some give the 08-09 season to Ovechkin (the middle year in what i'm told is the greatest 3 year peak in history). Malkin took the scoring title, a cup, and put up the best conn smythe performance in the salary cap era. To me, it's not even debatable.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

Crosby shouldn't be awarded best player status in years he missed alot of games

Why is that? No one is giving him the Art Ross trophy or Hart Memorial, and fairly so. But we can see how far ahead he was of everyone in those two seasons. Everyone knew who the best player was.

We probably disagree on how perceive "best player".

 

[filinski77]

As far as 'best seasons' go, I'm puzzled that some give the 08-09 season to Ovechkin (the middle year in what i'm told is the greatest 3 year peak in history). Malkin took the scoring title, a cup, and put up the best conn smythe performance in the salary cap era. To me, it's not even debatable.

Ovi lead the league in goals and points per game. Had 10 more goals than #2 in the league (21 more than malkin).

Tied with malkin in points/gp in the playoffs, lead the playoffs in goals/gp.

In the WSH-PIT series: Malkin had 2-8-10 in 7 games and Ovi had 8-6-14 in 7 games.

Not to mention he CRUSHED malkin in Hart voting, and won the Lindsay as the leagues most outstanding player. It's not ovi's fault that the caps didn't win that 2nd round series, but cmon man, it's clear Ovi was the best player that year.

 

[Midnight Judges]

FTFY

Yes, of course Crosby's injuries are super duper special, so he once again deserves super duper special treatment that applies to no other player.

 

[Plural]

As far as 'best seasons' go, I'm puzzled that some give the 08-09 season to Ovechkin (the middle year in what i'm told is the greatest 3 year peak in history). Malkin took the scoring title, a cup, and put up the best conn smythe performance in the salary cap era. To me, it's not even debatable.

Most do believe it was better season by OV but I can see an argument for Geno. The reason why I pick Ovechkin is because I think his difference in the RS is greater than Malkin's difference in playoffs. I'm not going to war with someone who picks Malkin for that year. It's a tad harder to justify but it's not like it's completely unrealistic.

 

[kladorf2005]

Yes, of course Crosby's injuries are super duper special, so he once again deserves super duper special treatment that applies to no other player.

GTFO - you said avoiding injuries is part of being good. You even went as far as to call them, "crappy seasons". I merely refuted that. The injury that cost him 2+ prime seasons of his career was due to a wreckless/careless/cheap shot. It has no bearing on making him not the best in the world.

And I never downgraded anyone else due to their injuries, either. So no, not special treatment. If you have an example of someone else who was at the top of the league, then got hurt, then came back and was still at the top of the league, I would say they were the best for that stretch too. McDavid is a good example of this missing half of his rookie season.