Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
- 51,167
- 9,909
How does Pittsburgh do it?
- Thread starter Kronwalled8*
- Start date
PullHard
☂
- Jul 18, 2007
- 28,409
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Hossa and Iginla were rentals that were had for a bunch of quantity at trade deadlines, followed by the two players leaving the following offseason.
In fact, Pittsburgh management (I guess mostly Shero since the new crew hasn't been around very long) has long been criticized for not finding a long term solution on the wings. Kunitz and Dupuis have been two of their longest lasting and best options, and I think we can all agree that while they are good NHLers, they aren't the ideal "star" winger.
The Kessel trade is not like the others.
Jules Winnfield
Fleurymanbad
- Mar 19, 2010
- 8,919
- 1,963
close to 40 m tied up in 5 guys
good times
Herp Derp Derp.
Someone needs to go back to school and learn how to do math. It's 38 million not 40. The Pens aren't even #1 in the league for cap hit on their top 5 players.
Thanks for trying tho.
dumoulin, DP, and Maataa seem to be the only assets with any type of value left in the organization outside their big 4 players... Lets see how this plays out
Montreal is not elite, NYR is pretty good but a tier below elite and Tampa is definitely elite. But the original claim of terrible bottom 6 is pretty ignorant - Sutter, Bennett, Dupuis, Sundqvist, Plotnikov and some other young guys or depth signing. Plus the top 6 is as good as anyone in the league. The D core is definitely a big question mark. But sooner or later Pens have to put their trust in the young guys they drafted in blueline.
Kristopher Letang
RIP Nipsey
We aren't bad because we get big names, it's more because we pay premium for average players. Scuderi, Kunitz, Sutter = 10.5M most Pens fans are ready to trade for anything. The problem is that most of our average players have NTC because of the Shero era.
2010 - Coming of two consecutive cup final appearance and depth dried out.
2011 - Staal as top line center with both Geno and Sid out. That is all
2012 - Choke. I won't argue that but the blame primarily falls on Fluery.
2013 - Another choke. I won't argue that. This exit was hard to take.
2014 - Choke? It could be argued that Rangers were the superior team and once they got rest, they came back strong and took the series.
2015 - Letang, Maatta, Ehroff injured; that is 3/4th of the top 4 D man.
ChiTownCode
Natural Perm
Why rain on the Pens fun? They know very well their teams problems, no point in dredging it up on a day where they landed a large prize and should be celebrating.
Grats, Pens fans.
Grats, Pens fans.
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Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
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You imagine wrong. But please, continue, it seems like Hawks fans are really bitter about the Pens getting Kessel, not even sure why or how, are you guys adopting some weird hatred for us like Wings fans? Not even sure if I should be offended or not, laughing it off of course, but still.
Pens have some how made it out with giving up assets that come back to haunt them. Weird, since I thought quite a few could, but it hasn't happened yet. But you have to give to get, Kessel was the best player on a crap team, maintained solid numbers without any real #1 center for 90% of his NHL career.
He goes to a team where he might get the odd moronic Rossi comment, but for the most part, he won't be answering to like a couple dozen Rossi's like there were in Toronto.
I'm still waiting for Joe Morrow to haunt us, or Hanowski, or Agostino...or Leveille, or...yeah.
But Despres has the potential to, so does Kapanen and Harrington if Kessel fails to score more than 30 all of a sudden with 2 of the best centers in the game as his options...yeah even I laughed at the thought of Phil no being able to hit 30...
Kristopher Letang
RIP Nipsey
close to 40 m tied up in 5 guys
good times
Crosby + Malkin + Kessel + Letang + Fleury = 38M
Toews + Kane + Hossa + Keith + Crawford = 37.8M
But hey man, have fun with your 10M tied up in 5 guys, you must have a **** ton of depth!
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Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
Thanks.
But problems?
Pens also added a solid 25yr old Russian winger that is likely to crack the Pens top 9. Thank god they didn't do a package deal.
Pens also added some intriguing prospects with the few picks they had and next year, there's more picks to be had with the Pens definitely getting their 2nd back, the two 3rd rounders and etc.
Sure, it's not ideal but hey, with how the Pens just added to their top 6 and had the Leafs retain salary, they got a top 5 winger for a bargain deal really.
Adding prospects, it can be done through free agents from college and europe and also with trading to get picks. Not even remotely worried.
Very happy right now with getting what the Pens got for the deal and also adding Plotnikov.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
The only good thing about those 3 is that only one has a Limited NMC and that's Scuderi, same for Dupuis.
So of the 4 that most of us want gone, Kunitz + Sutter can be traded anywhere, the other 2 the team has to be creative.
Also, why are so many hawks fans hating in this thread?
Kristopher Letang
RIP Nipsey
Kunitz has a NTC too. Apparently Scuderi & Kunitz declined to get traded to Toronto in the Kessel deal. http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...ves-maple-leafs-picks-assets-for-rebuild.html
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
- Jan 29, 2004
- 34,312
- 19,389
Pens haven't had much depth in their bottom six in yrs past, but their current third line would be:
Kunitz Sutter Dupuis
They also have a hell of a good, big bodied prospect in Sundqvist to play as their fourth pivot or he can swing out to wing if need be.
I'd prefer to see Kunitz and Sutter moved and free up about 7m, but if they aren't moved, that's still one of the better looking third lines you will find around the league.
Kunitz Sutter Dupuis
They also have a hell of a good, big bodied prospect in Sundqvist to play as their fourth pivot or he can swing out to wing if need be.
I'd prefer to see Kunitz and Sutter moved and free up about 7m, but if they aren't moved, that's still one of the better looking third lines you will find around the league.
lastcupever75
Phive cups PA.
- May 14, 2009
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?????
in each of those deals (plus the neal and perron deals) wingers were their weakest position
Except the Pens offensive trio, while offensive wizards, are nowhere near the two-way players the Hawks trio are (at least Toews and Hossa, which form probably the best two-way duo in the league).
Keith is head and shoulders above Letang.
The Hawks quintet is much more versatile, and playoff hockey suits them much better.
...
Right now, unless they got some upgrades on D and bottom 6, the Pens team look like a regular season juggernaut, for sure.
I'm just not sure their game will transition well to the playoffs.
lastcupever75
Phive cups PA.
- May 14, 2009
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jarry, murray, sundquist (checking center) , sprong.
not elite, but how many top spots do they need to fill with the top 6 looking pretty much set for the next few years
stardog
Been on HF so long my Myspace link is part of my p
The main board...where logic and reasoning are replaced by immaturity and hypocrisy.
The amount of ******** in this thread is on par with what it usually is when I venture over here every few months. Which is sad as this board far and away had a much higher ratio of solid, insightful people who could argue a point and carry on a discussion regardless of whatteam they cheered for. And sure, even then there was a modicum of homerism involved as expected, but it wasn't blind and so ignorant that it became obnoxious.
How do I know some of these posts are fueled by a certain amount of ********?
A) If your team hasn't made the playoffs in years (say 3 or more, or sporadically over the past 7 or so) yet you come in here and make the ever so clever and snarky comments about The Penguins recent playoff woes. Because hey, you want to prove what a smart, valuable and clever poster you are by saying something snarky that is meant to BURN any opposing viewpoint that isn't said 10 times already in the first few pages (but you refused to read because you felt your remark needed to be shared with the hockey world, and shared with the quickness).
B) In response to a valid comment or question (which you then refuse to answer but decide to change the argument slighly...over and over mind you), you show everybody that you mean business and post one of two emoticons...a laughing smiley face or a head scratching smiley face. Both great choices of course, but the brain power used to decide the proper one for the scenario used so much of your thought process that there was little to no room left to come up with anything which resembles logic or validity. And honestly, why should you when a little smiley man conveys your thoughts perfectly.
3) Excessive use of said emoticons. It takes quite a bit of talent to come up with a sentence of emoticons which is understood and accepted as a valid point.
4) When you only look at the affect and therefore blissfully ignore the cause. I'd say more on this one but there are no smiley men to help me illustrate. And I fear that without it, my point would fall on deaf ears of those whom this list refes to.
5) When you throw veiled insults yet the second one comes back your way, you immediately take offense, ask why you're being insulted and inform a mod.
6) Ryder, Halak and a 2nd.
7) When you fail to recognize that any or all of the above apply to you.
With that out of the way, this question has been answered fairly. They have made some runs at rentals and some have been very good deals with good returns, (Hossa, Guerin) while some have been downright AWFUL.
And having said that, just because the Penguins didn't win the cup with some of these deals doesn't make them bad deals. I feel it necessary to point that out because some people have an extremely difficult time grasping what is absolutely obvious. Obvious being so hard a concept to grasp and such.
I also would like to point out that exactly ONE team every year actually WINS the cup. The fact that the Penguins haven't won two, yet have had varying degrees of success (more so than the vast majority of the rest of the league...including the favorite teams of many posters who mock the Penguins as playoff disasters) is not indicative of them being poor ayoff performers. That is NOT an absolute. If so, they would never had gone to 2 cup finals or 2 conference championship series. They might have lucked there way into one of those scenarios but not 4.
I know, obvious points are difficult.
This year the team limped into the playoffs missing 3 of it's top 4 defensemen, a top line forward etc yet when it is pointed out it is either ignored, or said to be an excuse. And if we are going to use the word "excuse", let's use it correctly. Since when does an excuse become an absute negative...as in it is a bad thing to point out reasoning? Yes, it is an excuse for this year (as well as the Tampa series a few years ago), and it's a damn valid one at that. I have a difficult time believing that any team with The Penguins injury woes could have fared much better. As for the other times that they were either swept or bounced in the 1st, there were reasons as well. Valid and logical ones rather than some mystical phantom "playoff choke artists" that some choose to always fall back on despite facts contradicting such notions.
The same valid and logical reasons as any other team has when bounced from the playoffs each year.
So the Pens have been fortunate in getting high end players to come here for certain. But there are valid reasons which have been answered (and ignored by some because why have an intelligent conversation when you can post emoticons which express your opinions for you?). I would guess the main reason is that for the most part players want to play with other good players and go to a team that has solid intangibles (arena, support, chance at winning, atmosphere etc). And despite the butt hurt, to some, the Pens are still considered a solid destination which is why players with limited trade clauses put them on the list.
The other big factor is that players like Crosby and Geno don't come along very often and rarely are on the same team. There is more of an urgency in management to win by mortgaging the future. The problem was the previous GM was probably the worst GM in terms of draft and draft strategy in recent memory. You are seeing Chicago now have to do the same thing. They have their identified core and they are keeping it together. They have also drafted well and traded for the right depth, or trained the right depth while again, Pittsburgh has done a pitiful job at such.
And speaking of which I love the guy who laughs at the Penguins having 38 million tied up in 5 players as if they are supposed to cut one of their core. The money that thise 5 are getting isn't the issue. It's the money given to the support that is the issue. Or what, would you have refused to pay Geno? Or Crosby? Or balked at a 27 year old Kessel at 6.8 million with an escalating salary cap? But hey, the laughing emoticon really made me think. It nearly changed my opinion. If only you'd have followed it up with the head scratching guy.
The amount of ******** in this thread is on par with what it usually is when I venture over here every few months. Which is sad as this board far and away had a much higher ratio of solid, insightful people who could argue a point and carry on a discussion regardless of whatteam they cheered for. And sure, even then there was a modicum of homerism involved as expected, but it wasn't blind and so ignorant that it became obnoxious.
How do I know some of these posts are fueled by a certain amount of ********?
A) If your team hasn't made the playoffs in years (say 3 or more, or sporadically over the past 7 or so) yet you come in here and make the ever so clever and snarky comments about The Penguins recent playoff woes. Because hey, you want to prove what a smart, valuable and clever poster you are by saying something snarky that is meant to BURN any opposing viewpoint that isn't said 10 times already in the first few pages (but you refused to read because you felt your remark needed to be shared with the hockey world, and shared with the quickness).
B) In response to a valid comment or question (which you then refuse to answer but decide to change the argument slighly...over and over mind you), you show everybody that you mean business and post one of two emoticons...a laughing smiley face or a head scratching smiley face. Both great choices of course, but the brain power used to decide the proper one for the scenario used so much of your thought process that there was little to no room left to come up with anything which resembles logic or validity. And honestly, why should you when a little smiley man conveys your thoughts perfectly.
3) Excessive use of said emoticons. It takes quite a bit of talent to come up with a sentence of emoticons which is understood and accepted as a valid point.
4) When you only look at the affect and therefore blissfully ignore the cause. I'd say more on this one but there are no smiley men to help me illustrate. And I fear that without it, my point would fall on deaf ears of those whom this list refes to.
5) When you throw veiled insults yet the second one comes back your way, you immediately take offense, ask why you're being insulted and inform a mod.
6) Ryder, Halak and a 2nd.
7) When you fail to recognize that any or all of the above apply to you.
With that out of the way, this question has been answered fairly. They have made some runs at rentals and some have been very good deals with good returns, (Hossa, Guerin) while some have been downright AWFUL.
And having said that, just because the Penguins didn't win the cup with some of these deals doesn't make them bad deals. I feel it necessary to point that out because some people have an extremely difficult time grasping what is absolutely obvious. Obvious being so hard a concept to grasp and such.
I also would like to point out that exactly ONE team every year actually WINS the cup. The fact that the Penguins haven't won two, yet have had varying degrees of success (more so than the vast majority of the rest of the league...including the favorite teams of many posters who mock the Penguins as playoff disasters) is not indicative of them being poor ayoff performers. That is NOT an absolute. If so, they would never had gone to 2 cup finals or 2 conference championship series. They might have lucked there way into one of those scenarios but not 4.
I know, obvious points are difficult.
This year the team limped into the playoffs missing 3 of it's top 4 defensemen, a top line forward etc yet when it is pointed out it is either ignored, or said to be an excuse. And if we are going to use the word "excuse", let's use it correctly. Since when does an excuse become an absute negative...as in it is a bad thing to point out reasoning? Yes, it is an excuse for this year (as well as the Tampa series a few years ago), and it's a damn valid one at that. I have a difficult time believing that any team with The Penguins injury woes could have fared much better. As for the other times that they were either swept or bounced in the 1st, there were reasons as well. Valid and logical ones rather than some mystical phantom "playoff choke artists" that some choose to always fall back on despite facts contradicting such notions.
The same valid and logical reasons as any other team has when bounced from the playoffs each year.
So the Pens have been fortunate in getting high end players to come here for certain. But there are valid reasons which have been answered (and ignored by some because why have an intelligent conversation when you can post emoticons which express your opinions for you?). I would guess the main reason is that for the most part players want to play with other good players and go to a team that has solid intangibles (arena, support, chance at winning, atmosphere etc). And despite the butt hurt, to some, the Pens are still considered a solid destination which is why players with limited trade clauses put them on the list.
The other big factor is that players like Crosby and Geno don't come along very often and rarely are on the same team. There is more of an urgency in management to win by mortgaging the future. The problem was the previous GM was probably the worst GM in terms of draft and draft strategy in recent memory. You are seeing Chicago now have to do the same thing. They have their identified core and they are keeping it together. They have also drafted well and traded for the right depth, or trained the right depth while again, Pittsburgh has done a pitiful job at such.
And speaking of which I love the guy who laughs at the Penguins having 38 million tied up in 5 players as if they are supposed to cut one of their core. The money that thise 5 are getting isn't the issue. It's the money given to the support that is the issue. Or what, would you have refused to pay Geno? Or Crosby? Or balked at a 27 year old Kessel at 6.8 million with an escalating salary cap? But hey, the laughing emoticon really made me think. It nearly changed my opinion. If only you'd have followed it up with the head scratching guy.
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lastcupever75
Phive cups PA.
- May 14, 2009
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stardog
Been on HF so long my Myspace link is part of my p
And this is the point I was making.
A) Soooo there is NO value outside of 7 people you just named huh?
Teams play the game in an attempt to win, not in an attempt to garner trade value.
Furthermore, how are you defining value and how do you know that every GM defines it the same way?
And even further, you missed several other players wbo have obvious value around the league. It's like you would rather win the point that be corrected. Or have your dislike validated by others who have the same dislike so if all of you ignore fact then you can s congratulate each other on some meaningless accomplishment
Yes, it will play out. And the team has now added it's most prominent and obvious missing component. One hole it has had for YEARS. And which it has had tried to fill for YEARS...illustrating how difficult it is to come by players of that caliber and we are complaining about the cupboards being bare.
Guess what. People STOCK those cupboards to be in the position that the Pens are currently in. That is absolutely the entire point of every franchise.
And it might not work either. But I would much rather be in this position than that of almost every other team in the league at the moment.
mja
Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
we need to draft like the flyers.
they know how to win
I must say, I always enjoy your predictable and completely random shot at the Flyers.
Johnnybegood13
Registered User
- Jul 11, 2003
- 8,719
- 982
When Crosby/Malkin are gone they'll suck and then luck out on another generational player or two.
