How Do We Fix The Defense?

[F A N]

A player like Coburn could be an experiment as well. Fast, big and not a total liability in his own end (and if he too bombs I'm blaming the coaching staff this time).

It's 2019 not 2009. I liked Coburn when he is in his prime.

The problem is that is screws up the pairings and lack of cohesion on the squad. Stecher is forced to play as a #1 which he's not. Every year Edler and Tanev go down and imagine if we're actually having a good season and in a playoff race when they do. It's like playing roulette with two bullets. Need younger more healthy guys who can bounce back after injury and play through pain.

Edler, outside of the freak injury he suffered this year, has actually been decently durable the past 3 years. He actually does "bounce back after injury and play through pain."

Back when we signed Hamhuis and traded for Ballard I too made the durability argument. But through the years I have learned that you can never predict durability for Canucks players. Hamhuis averaged less than 60 games in his last two years then goes to Dallas and plays 79 and 80 games. Bieksa too played 71 and then matched his career high of 81 games after leaving here. So much for players whose bodies have already broken down and not getting any younger.

 

[bossram]

We'll just turn out like the Sens after the Duchene trade, a bad team giving up an unprotected 1st.

I don't know if we should do it, but if we were to pursue Trouba, I think an offer sheet is the only way. We don't have any tradeable assets.

 

[Peter10]

I don't know if we should do it, but if we were to pursue Trouba, I think an offer sheet is the only way. We don't have any tradeable assets.

Dont think an offer sheet would be a smart option for the Canucks, they are not in a position to give up up to 4 1st round picks. One of which would be the 2020 1st, a potential lottery pick in what seems to be a fantastic draft year with Lafreniere, Byfield, Holtz, Raymond, etc.

 

[Cogburn]

It's 2019 not 2009. I liked Coburn when he is in his prime.



Edler, outside of the freak injury he suffered this year, has actually been decently durable the past 3 years. He actually does "bounce back after injury and play through pain."

Back when we signed Hamhuis and traded for Ballard I too made the durability argument. But through the years I have learned that you can never predict durability for Canucks players. Hamhuis averaged less than 60 games in his last two years then goes to Dallas and plays 79 and 80 games. Bieksa too played 71 and then matched his career high of 81 games after leaving here. So much for players whose bodies have already broken down and not getting any younger.

Past his prime Coburn is still a lot better then some of the other possible candidates. He's better as a bottom pairing/spare over Sautner or Brisebois, beats the pants off of Pouliot, and my idea has 8 D cycling, so he won't have to play every game.

I know it wasn't a reply to what I said, but I agree with the second half of your post entirely.

 

[member 290103]

There is one sure fire way to give the team the best shot at a better d-corp. Fire Benning.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

There is one sure fire way to give the team the best shot at a better d-corp. Fire Benning.

Ok... How does the new GM fix the defense?

 

[polarbearcub]

If we draft byram , honestly it makes the outlook of the d much better. Still need more but it’s a big step. Hughes byram can be the core of the backend.

 

[me2]

Ok... How does the new GM fix the defense?

Step 1: draft a 1st pairing Dman.
Step 2: suck for another year while we burn more years off of benning's junk contracts
Step 3: Goto step 1.

 

[Kryten]

Drafting Hague instead of Lind wouldve helped a whole hell of a lot. Not like many of us were vocal about that though...

 

[Elvs]

Editing the Canucks on EA right now and I am curious, why is Hutton playing 22:33 minutes per night compared to Tanev's 20:10?

Stecher +10
Tanev +3
Edler 0
Pouliot 0
Biega -1
Hutton -20 (!)

I'm not much for +/- but what's the context here? Those -20 stands out in an odd way. I've been reading through the last pages and there seems to be no question that Tanev is the Canucks #2, yet Hutton is eating all these minutes. Where do you rank Hutton, #3 or #4 behind Stecher?

 

[Canucks1096]

Editing the Canucks on EA right now and I am curious, why is Hutton playing 22:33 minutes per night compared to Tanev's 20:10?

Stecher +10
Tanev +3
Edler 0
Pouliot 0
Biega -1
Hutton -20 (!)

I'm not much for +/- but what's the context here? Those -20 stands out in an odd way. I've been reading through the last pages and there seems to be no question that Tanev is the Canucks #2, yet Hutton is eating all these minutes. Where do you rank Hutton, #3 or #4 behind Stecher?

Hutton is -20 because he played with Gudbranson for 557 mins this year. Most out of every D.

Hutton is a LS D. Edler only played 47 games this year. When Edler is out of the lineup Hutton is other LS D That can play all those mins. Also Hutton and Edler are the only two D That play regularly on both PP and PK

For me it's

1 Edler
2 Tanev
3 Hutton
4 Stecher

 

[Elvs]

I forgot about Gudbranson. Minus 27... Now it all makes sense Thanks!

 

[F A N]

Past his prime Coburn is still a lot better then some of the other possible candidates. He's better as a bottom pairing/spare over Sautner or Brisebois, beats the pants off of Pouliot, and my idea has 8 D cycling, so he won't have to play every game.

I know it wasn't a reply to what I said, but I agree with the second half of your post entirely.

I'm obviously not suggesting we don't try to improve the defense but realistically Coburn isn't signing here to be a spare part guy that you rotate in and out of the lineup. So you then have a guy who is 34 who turns 35 during the season. Is he signing here on a one year deal? Term aside, if you don't re-sign Edler and you bring Coburn in then that makes some sense. If you trade Hutton and need a stop gap that makes sense. Heck, if we end up drafting Bowen Byram then ya the team might be better off in the long run to bandaid the left side for now.

 

[me2]

Editing the Canucks on EA right now and I am curious, why is Hutton playing 22:33 minutes per night compared to Tanev's 20:10?

Probably injuries. Green was riding Stecher hard at times too. When Tanev and Edler are healthy Hutton and Stecher have also been healthy to share the load with them so none are getting flogged. Without the top guys out Hutton and Stecher play more.

 

[VanJack]

Been impressed with Schenn so far....not the swiftest guy out there, but plays a safe, controlled game. What gets me is that he's the kind of depth d-man Benning could easily have acquired in the off-season.

Instead he brings the same awful group back, and then is basically forced to deal both Gudbranson and Del Zotto in-season because they were so poor. Meantime, Pouliot is now buried in the press-box

Hard to figure why, instead of addressing the blueline in the offseason, he overpays for three, third and fourth line grinders in Beagle, Roussel and Schaller.

 

[dwarf]

Best way to fix our D, is to stop trading our draft picks, and draft some Dmen.

 

[Cogburn]

I'm obviously not suggesting we don't try to improve the defense but realistically Coburn isn't signing here to be a spare part guy that you rotate in and out of the lineup. So you then have a guy who is 34 who turns 35 during the season. Is he signing here on a one year deal? Term aside, if you don't re-sign Edler and you bring Coburn in then that makes some sense. If you trade Hutton and need a stop gap that makes sense. Heck, if we end up drafting Bowen Byram then ya the team might be better off in the long run to bandaid the left side for now.

Well I am hoping we sign Edler and Hutton and keep Hughes in the rotation as well. Spare wouldn't be the operative word, I'd want a continuous cycle of 8 D to give more frequent games off to try to curb injuries. I know you've said that Edler wouldn't go for this, but playing 60 plus games due to injury is sort of what I'm counting him in for anyway. I still want to see this implemented, 8 top 6 like the bad old days of 2011.

 

[StreetHawk]

Best way to fix our D, is to stop trading our draft picks, and draft some Dmen.

There’s an old expression of Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. Benning did that with 3 consecutive 2nd round picks from 2014-2016 to get Vey, Bear, Gudbranson and dealt for Clendenning.

Now those picks would range from turning 21-23 in 2019 which as Elliotte Friedman writes in his 31 thoughts is what he think the Canucks are looking for.

LA took McKeown a rhd whomwould be in year 3 of his elc.
Cal took Andersson who is on year 2 due to the elc slide another .
At 33, guys like Sam girard were on the board.

But when you borrow from the Pettersson group to help the Sedin group sooner or later you have to pay for him. And when you compound that with letting vets like Hamhuis and Edler just play out their contracts and get nothing this is where you are.

NTC complicated things but really in terms of when you have to make moves. You are not afforded the luxury to make them in your timeline since you don’t have final say. Guys like Hammer and Eddie would only ok a dea on their timeline which really would be the summer prior to their contract expiring but the Canucks didn’t want to be without them.

 

[VanJack]

Actually, when the Canucks go searching for d-men in later rounds, they've come up with some decent prospects. Rathbone, Brisebois, Tryamkin and Woo all drafted after this first round. And even free agent signings like Chatfield, Teves, Sautner and maybe Eliot could be depth guys at least.

But the trades for Pedan (third rounder); Baertschi (2nd rounder); Prust (a fifth rounder); Sutter (second rounder); Gudbranson (second rounder); Dorsett (third rounder); Pouliot (4th rounder) and Larsen (5th rounder); are all picks basically flushed down the old toilet bowl.

Who knows.....maybe they come up with the d-man equivalent of Gaudette, Madden or Lockwood with those squandered picks?

 

[Gaunce4gm]

Hutton-Stecher
Hughes-Tanev
Sautner-Schenn
Brisebois-Biega

You try your best to draft Bowen Byram, Ville Heinola, Phillip Broberg, Victor Söderstrom etc in the first round, grab high upside D like Anttoni Honka in the 2nd and 3rd round

Edler walks cause he wants 5 years or more and the Canucks amicably part ways is my guess

You let Olli Juolevi spend at least half the season in Utica, and getting his career trajectory back on path.

Our D next year should be better just by swapping out Guddy and Poo for Schenn and Hughes.

Edler missed a lot of time this year, and he will be missed greatly, but overall the D is improved and the future would be a lot brighter having a top 10 pick D man to add to Hughes and hopefully Juolevi, Woo, Rathbone, and dare I hope Tryamkin...?

 

[Get North]

Hutton-Stecher
Hughes-Tanev
Sautner-Schenn
Brisebois-Biega

You try your best to draft Bowen Byram, Ville Heinola, Phillip Broberg, Victor Söderstrom etc in the first round, grab high upside D like Anttoni Honka in the 2nd and 3rd round

Edler walks cause he wants 5 years or more and the Canucks amicably part ways is my guess

You let Olli Juolevi spend at least half the season in Utica, and getting his career trajectory back on path.

Our D next year should be better just by swapping out Guddy and Poo for Schenn and Hughes.

Edler missed a lot of time this year, and he will be missed greatly, but overall the D is improved and the future would be a lot brighter having a top 10 pick D man to add to Hughes and hopefully Juolevi, Woo, Rathbone, and dare I hope Tryamkin...?

I like that line-up and thinking, but we should re-sign Edler. Here's why, he's a top 4 LHD that can play PK/PP, that will cost a lot in free agency. He should come back at a reasonable cap hit considering he was making 5M in his prime, and he would rather stay in Vancouver than win a Cup. We have all the leverage, we won't find a quality Dman like Edler for below 5M.

It also prevents Hughes from being thrown into the deep end and having Sautner has his depth chart replacement who is still young and adjusting himself to the NHL. Don't get me wrong, I want Sautner and Brisebois to battle for the #7/8 spot with Biega. We don't need to sign any veterans, our young kids should get a full season at it.

Juolevi is a bonus if he pushes for a spot, otherwise start in Utica with Chatfield, Elliot, Teves, maybe Brassard and let's see them battle and develop like Sautner and Brisebois.

 

[M2Beezy]

Edler Stecher
Hutton Briesy
Hughes Tanev
Biega Schenn

Possibly 3 decent pairings and we know Tanev will be injured for half the season so Biega or Schenn are easy fill ins. Let Juolevi and Sautner FORCE their way into the lineup

 

[Snatcher Demko]

I think the defense isn't that far off, but needs one more legitimate top 4 player - which could still be Juolevi.

By 2020-21 without any acquisitions, we could have:

Edler-Stecher
Hughes-Tanev
Hutton-Woo
Juolevi

I'd be inclined to let that run and see what we have. Of course Edler and Tanev could decline considerably by that year, so we had better have something good in the pipeline by then.

 

[iceburg]

19/20
Edler-Stecher
Hughes-Tanev
Hutton-Myers
Juolevi

20/21
Edler-Stecher
Hughes-Myers
Hutton-Woo
Juolevi

21/22
Hughes-Myers
Hutton-Woo
Juolevi-Stecher
New Guy

 

[passive voice]

Hutton-Myers
...
Hughes-Myers
...
Hughes-Myers

[looks around nervously]