How Do We Fix The Defense?

[wetcoast]

The time to trade Tanev was years ago. His value is only decreasing as months go by. We will never get he full value for him in the trade market, for the value he provides to this team. That is largely due to his injuries and lack of production.

I sure wouldn’t be paying big assets to get Tanev, and then have him miss 20+ games a year and playoff games.

Us getting Nylander or whoever fans wanted was the biggest pipe dream I’ve seen in a long while.

Agree 10% with this.

 

[wetcoast]

Hutton will most certainly be qualified. He's playing top four minutes, on pace for 25-30 points, and he'll still be only 26 at season's end. The debacle of last year is firmly in the past now, IMO.

Del Zotto and Pouliot should both be gone. I get the feeling Edler will be as well; whether the Canucks are able to convince him to accept a trade at the deadline, or we just let him walk in free agency, I think Benning has telegraphed his intentions to part ways - just has he has telegraphed his intentions to retain Tanev going forward.

Agree with this although I think that even if Edler is traded at the deadline he will still come back and resign with the Canucks in the offseason for family reasons.

And that might be in the best interests of the Canucks getting another assest in a high draft pick.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think people are dreaming if they think Edler will sign a cheap two year deal. I’d expect at least 4 years at a pretty high price. This is probably his last chance for that type of deal. He has a desire to stay here but he’s still going to want to get paid imo.

 

[PG Canuck]

Agree 10% with this.

What do I have to say for you to agree with the other 90%?

 

[wetcoast]

What do I have to say for you to agree with the other 90%?

Man my bad 2 days in a row posting before fully caffeinated.

 

[givemeda411]

How to fix our defense? No one on this current roster should be here in 3yrs.....maybe Tanev.
We currently have the following in our pipeline.
Woo reminds me of Bieska, who also played on the top pair with Hamhuis.

Hughes - W00
Juolevi -

We need to trade:
- Edler for a 1st. Used to draft Broberg or Robertson
- Guddy for a 2nd(FLA)? Used to draft Korczak or Thompson
- I'd make an effort to trade for Dante Fabbro...I'd trade anything minus our 1st. Goldobin/Stecher + 2nd pick
-I didn't even mention trading Tanev, I'd ask for a 1st otherwise keep him.

Hughes - Woo
Juolevi - Fabbro
Robertson - Korczak

 

[VanJack]

The situation with the Canuck blueline really hasn't changed much since the current regime was put in place. Edler and Tanev are a legit top-two pairing. As for the rest of the flotsam and jetsam Benning has acquired, they'd be no better than 6-7 depth guys on most teams.

So predictably when one or both of Tanev and Edler go down and the Canucks are forced to move guys up in the lineup, they just start to bleed goals and scoring chances. It happened earlier this year and my predication, it'll happen again before the end of this season and probably costs them a legitimate shot at the playoffs.

No real quick fixes unfortunately. Quinn Hughes will make his appearance in March. And with Juolevi, who really knows? As far as the UFA and trade market, the Canucks track record of acquiring d-men is nothing short of abysmal.

Hate to harp on it, but they should be moving heaven and earth to re-acquire Tryamkin from the KHL and pair him with Hughes. They could be a legitimate 3-4 pairing. And then just keep drafting d-men like Woo and keep your fingers crossed I guess.

 

[Horse McHindu]

1) Resign Edler and solidify the left side:

With Edler here for a few more years, it allows for Hutton to be placed in an ideal 3rd pairing role, while also allowing a comfortable amount of time for Hughes to grow and overtake Edler as the teams’ top pairing guy in a year or so. It also allows time for Juolevi to comfortably develop and while forcing him to rise up and overtake Hutton’s spot one day.

2019-2020
Edler
Hughes
Hutton/Juolevi

2020-2021
Hughes
Edler
Hutton/Juolevi

2) Bye Bye Del Zotto and Pouliot.

3) Don’t sign any UFA’s in 2019 offseason. Save money and focus on re-upping Boeser. See how Hughes performs in 2019-2020 and see where Hughes is in his development. Also see where prospects like Woo, Chatfield, etc, are in their development. Don’t forget about Tryamkin on that right side.

Edler-Stecher
Hughes-Tanev
Hutton/Juolevi-Gudbranson

4) See what team needs are at this point and go after the right UFA. Sami Vatanen is a guy I would target (I think he plays the right side?). However - If Quinn Hughes = Pettersson 2.0 on defense, then maybe the Canucks could consider going after a high ticket superstar UFA (defense or up front) and attempting to make a cup run while Pettersson and Hughes are on ELC’s.

 

[mathonwy]

 

[F A N]

I think you should give credit to the author. It does lend support to Green as a coach.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Our D hasn't been very good for years now even when everyone is fully healthy (which is a rarity). I think the D needs to be completely revamped and it's time to change for the sake of change. I think management needs to look beyond the individual players in a vacuum because if you're just looking at individual players, Edler is still a top 4 Dman. Tanev is a 1st pairing Dman at his best and a top 4 Dman when he's not. Advanced stats suggests that Hutton is a top 4 Dman. Stecher was/is too. Yet is the D any good with all 4 of those guys in the lineup? Not at all.

The problem of course is a lack of options. Quinn Hughes should arrive next year and if he doesn't bring immediate returns he is no doubt a building block for the future. But that's not going to be enough. There aren't any Dmen we can draft in the 2019 draft that can or you want stepping in immediately. Unless Juolevi fixes his knee and takes some huge steps in development, he's not a top 4 Dman in the NHL.

Edler will actually be one of the best Dman available on the UFA market if he reaches free agency, do you bring him back? Erik Karlsson is obviously the big name if he reaches free agency but he's unlikely to sign here and even if he does he's unlikely to get less or much less than Doughty money at 29 years of age.

This past summer, I wanted the Canucks to look into signing a guy like De Haan but would he have made a difference? He would have been an upgrade over Del Zotto. Is that the path? Add good 2nd pairing Dmen at an affordable price? If that's the case, do you re-sign Edler?

There's always the trade market. Tyson Barrie will be entering his last year of his contract and if the Avs can't re-sign him they may trade him. Justin Faulk may be available but I'm not sure the Canucks can re-sign him.

What can the Canucks do? Just build the D through the draft?

My solution would be to try and target Jacob Trouba out of Winnipeg.

Assuming that we don’t land the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd OA in this year’s draft, I think we should try and trade for Trouba by using our 1st rounder as part of a packaged deal.

Our left side D isn’t horrible, but our Right Side D needs some significant work.

1) Extend Edler and gradually phase him to a 2nd and even 3rd pairing as Hughes starts to get his feet wet and becomes worthy of a top 4 role. 2 year deal max for Edler with an NTC/NMC and a higher than expected AAV. Edler gets all these benefits IF he agrees to a 2 year deal. Nothing more than two years.

2) Trouba replaces Tanev as the top pairing guy. This will also allow Tanev to be a little less injury prone as his responsibilities become less.

3) Keep Hutton and Stecher as your 2nd or 3rd pairing guys.

4) A developed Juolevi or a returning Tryamkin can replace Edler in the line-up one day.

5) Woo should make the team one day.


Next year:

Edler-Trouba
Hutton-Stecher
Hughes-Tanev

Future:

Hughes-Trouba
Hutton-Woo
[Juolevi or Tryamkin]-Stecher

If Juolevi and a returning Tryamkin really impress, then perhaps moving Hutton for a pick could be an option as well.

Few tidbits:

1) Don’t Sign Myers. Too slow and injury prone, and the money and term he’ll demand won’t be worth it, given his age. He’d be an upgrade over Gudbranson, but the predatory analytics community in Vancouver will curb stomp this guy and he’ll become the new Erik.

2). You can consider Stralman, but I’m not a fan of his age......and the term he’d want. I’d be somewhat wary of Stralman but wouldn’t be too upset if we got him.

If Trouba doesn’t mind being in Canada but simply wants out of Winnipeg, Target this guy big time.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Agree 10% with this.

Only 10%?

 

[strattonius]

I like Gardiner and Karlsson. There is basically no chance we get Karlsson. Gardiner had a bad game in the playoffs and now hes getting run out of town - but i think hes a good 2nd pairing guy that can fill on on the 1st pair and power play when our injuries rack up.

Myers scares me.

 

[bossram]

I like Gardiner and Karlsson. There is basically no chance we get Karlsson. Gardiner had a bad game in the playoffs and now hes getting run out of town - but i think hes a good 2nd pairing guy that can fill on on the 1st pair and power play when our injuries rack up.

Myers scares me.

Aside from EK, Gardiner is really the only useful defenseman out there. His age is a concern though. By the time we can actually contend, he'll be past his prime. For that reason, I'd shy away.

Myers is a huge no-no, but he's definitely the kind of guy Jim-John would target, so I won't be surprised (but still horrified) when they offer him 5.5x5 in the summer.

I like the Trouba idea above. After the draft, I think the best route might just be an offer sheet though.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Aside from EK, Gardiner is really the only useful defenseman out there. His age is a concern though. By the time we can actually contend, he'll be past his prime. For that reason, I'd shy away.

Myers is a huge no-no, but he's definitely the kind of guy Jim-John would target, so I won't be surprised (but still horrified) when they offer him 5.5x5 in the summer.

I like the Trouba idea above. After the draft, I think the best route might just be an offer sheet though.

Offer sheets rarely work and more times than not, just leads to a GM developing a bad rep around the league. The cast of NHL GM’s operate like an old boys club often times. Make a predatory RFA offer sheet and you risk being blackballed by the rest of the old boys club. 50-70 year old men acting like 15 year olds is still a thing. :/

 

[wetcoast]

My solution would be to try and target Jacob Trouba out of Winnipeg.

Assuming that we don’t land the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd OA in this year’s draft, I think we should try and trade for Trouba by using our 1st rounder as part of a packaged deal.

Our left side D isn’t horrible, but our Right Side D needs some significant work.

1) Extend Edler and gradually phase him to a 2nd and even 3rd pairing as Hughes starts to get his feet wet and becomes worthy of a top 4 role. 2 year deal max for Edler with an NTC/NMC and a higher than expected AAV. Edler gets all these benefits IF he agrees to a 2 year deal. Nothing more than two years.

2) Trouba replaces Tanev as the top pairing guy. This will also allow Tanev to be a little less injury prone as his responsibilities become less.

3) Keep Hutton and Stecher as your 2nd or 3rd pairing guys.

4) A developed Juolevi or a returning Tryamkin can replace Edler in the line-up one day.

5) Woo should make the team one day.


Next year:

Edler-Trouba
Hutton-Stecher
Hughes-Tanev

Future:

Hughes-Trouba
Hutton-Woo
[Juolevi or Tryamkin]-Stecher

If Juolevi and a returning Tryamkin really impress, then perhaps moving Hutton for a pick could be an option as well.

Few tidbits:

1) Don’t Sign Myers. Too slow and injury prone, and the money and term he’ll demand won’t be worth it, given his age. He’d be an upgrade over Gudbranson, but the predatory analytics community in Vancouver will curb stomp this guy and he’ll become the new Erik.

2). You can consider Stralman, but I’m not a fan of his age......and the term he’d want. I’d be somewhat wary of Stralman but wouldn’t be too upset if we got him.

If Trouba doesn’t mind being in Canada but simply wants out of Winnipeg, Target this guy big time.

Trouba isn't really the direction the Canucks should go.

Even if we don't have a top 3 pick we could get a guy like Bryam or Turcotte and have 6 years of control and a better cap situation.

In 2 or 3 years we might be in a better situation to add the "final piece" for a SC run.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Aside from EK, Gardiner is really the only useful defenseman out there. His age is a concern though. By the time we can actually contend, he'll be past his prime. For that reason, I'd shy away.

Myers is a huge no-no, but he's definitely the kind of guy Jim-John would target, so I won't be surprised (but still horrified) when they offer him 5.5x5 in the summer.

I like the Trouba idea above. After the draft, I think the best route might just be an offer sheet though.

That wont get it done.

Im sure it would take north of 6mil.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Trouba isn't really the direction the Canucks should go.

Even if we don't have a top 3 pick we could get a guy like Bryam or Turcotte and have 6 years of control and a better cap situation.

In 2 or 3 years we might be in a better situation to add the "final piece" for a SC run.

Fair enough.

I had Byram slated to go #3 but honestly havent analyzed the draft very deeply yet (I usually don’t care about the draft until about late May/early June).

I definitely see your point with regards to having a cost controlled asset (1st round pick), but my biggest concern with Vancouver is that their defense really is TERRIBLE and needs IMMEDIATE attention.

As we saw this year, our terrible zone possession numbers basically leads to guys running around in our own end, having to block an inordinate number of shots, and ultimately, getting injured.

When you have a prized asset like Hughes, I would argue that you need to find a way to protect him from that......and insulate him as much as possible. If the Canucks are going to commit to Edler, and also take less stress off of Tanev, then I also think that a more immediate piece would be beneficial.

The other factor to consider is Demko. Ideally, we want to give Demko enough starts so that he can grow his game. Do we really want Demko to be “welcomed” to the NHL by playing in front of such a weak defense? (And risk being lit up?.....especially if there are inevitable injuries to the defense?). I’m not so sure.

I think an addition of a guy like Trouba would kill many birds with one stone.

1) You’d take a lot of pressure off of Tanev.
2) You add some toughness on the back end.
3) You’d still be getting a young asset.
4) We wouldn’t be as sensitive to the injury bug as we have been in recent years.
5) Our young prized assets (Hughes and Demko) are insulated a little more.

My biggest concern is that Benning is going to look at Tyler Myers for the above. Or even the aging Anton Stralman. I really hope that this isn’t the case (Stralman wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world I guess), and I hope that we do make a serious pitch for one of Trouba or Karlsson.

 

[Horse McHindu]

And yes - Tyler Myers will cost more than 6 million, no question (atleast if he was to consider Vancouver).

I would stay the hell away from Myers.

 

[Cupless44]

And yes - Tyler Myers will cost more than 6 million, no question (atleast if he was to consider Vancouver).

I would stay the hell away from Myers.

Problem is that our incompetent GM should have stayed away from pretty well every single UFA he has signed with the exception of maybe Roussel....Eriksson, Beagle, Del Zotto, Gagner, Schaller, Burmistrov etc

What makes you think his pro scouting and grasp on not locking a rebuilding team into bad long term contracts will improve this summer? He is not very bright with a poor understanding of the salary cap, now he will be desperate to keep his job.

 

[TruGr1t]

You won't fix the defense until you somehow get a top pairing. Edler and Tanev are an unacceptable top pair due to the fact they are now made of glass.

 

[wetcoast]

And yes - Tyler Myers will cost more than 6 million, no question (atleast if he was to consider Vancouver).

I would stay the hell away from Myers.

Agree that I would stay away from Meyers and I hope they stay away from big cap and term guys on the back end.

I have confidence in Hughes and Woo.

 

[Horse McHindu]

You won't fix the defense until you somehow get a top pairing. Edler and Tanev are an unacceptable top pair due to the fact they are now made of glass.

Agreed that Edler and Tanev are no longer a top pairing.

I think the durability of both Edler and Tanev will increase IF they are freed up from so many responsibilities. Both guys simply have too much on them right now.

That’s why I like the idea of getting someone like Trouba. Trouba is a tough physical defenseman that can allow Tanev to take a lesser role on a 2nd pairing. In the meantime, perhaps it won’t take too long for Hughes to “get up to speed” and be worthy of top pairing duty. You can then have Hughes and a guy like Trouba as your top pair.

Hughes-Trouba
Edler-Tanev
Hutton-Stecher

Which could then become

Hughes-Trouba
Hutton-Stecher
[Juolevi or Tryamkin]-Woo

In the future.

Anyways - that’s how I’d try and address the defense.

This team needs a top pairing Right-sides defenseman IMMEDIATELY and I think Trouba fits that bill. Hughes and Trouba would allow Edler and Tanev to fade into the sunset, take on lesser roles, and preserve their health.

 

[BROCK HUGHES]

You won't fix the defense until you somehow get a top pairing. Edler and Tanev are an unacceptable top pair due to the fact they are now made of glass.

Totally agree with this.But Jimbo will sign Edler to a contract .,but I have no idea why we are holding onto Tanev.
Delusional GM.

 

[swedehollow]

Hope they do something about the PP. Put EP on the point, Goblin to the right, Boeser to the left, Leivo in front and Horvat behind the net. Yes - no defencemen on the ice! And, put Horvat and EP out on the PK. Edit: Wrong thread, sorry!