How Do We Fix The Defense?

[F A N]

Our D hasn't been very good for years now even when everyone is fully healthy (which is a rarity). I think the D needs to be completely revamped and it's time to change for the sake of change. I think management needs to look beyond the individual players in a vacuum because if you're just looking at individual players, Edler is still a top 4 Dman. Tanev is a 1st pairing Dman at his best and a top 4 Dman when he's not. Advanced stats suggests that Hutton is a top 4 Dman. Stecher was/is too. Yet is the D any good with all 4 of those guys in the lineup? Not at all.

The problem of course is a lack of options. Quinn Hughes should arrive next year and if he doesn't bring immediate returns he is no doubt a building block for the future. But that's not going to be enough. There aren't any Dmen we can draft in the 2019 draft that can or you want stepping in immediately. Unless Juolevi fixes his knee and takes some huge steps in development, he's not a top 4 Dman in the NHL.

Edler will actually be one of the best Dman available on the UFA market if he reaches free agency, do you bring him back? Erik Karlsson is obviously the big name if he reaches free agency but he's unlikely to sign here and even if he does he's unlikely to get less or much less than Doughty money at 29 years of age.

This past summer, I wanted the Canucks to look into signing a guy like De Haan but would he have made a difference? He would have been an upgrade over Del Zotto. Is that the path? Add good 2nd pairing Dmen at an affordable price? If that's the case, do you re-sign Edler?

There's always the trade market. Tyson Barrie will be entering his last year of his contract and if the Avs can't re-sign him they may trade him. Justin Faulk may be available but I'm not sure the Canucks can re-sign him.

What can the Canucks do? Just build the D through the draft?

Click to read more...

 

[PredsForPresidents]

Cutting a ton of dead weight would help. Biggest problem is that they came back with the exact same defence as we did last year.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Cutting a ton of dead weight would help. Biggest problem is that they came back with the exact same defence as we did last year.

They did..looks like they bolstered the bottom 6 than try to acquire a D...

 

[Scumbag Frank]

List of some studs the Canucks could use going forward, and how their team got them (Bold = 1st round pick):

Anaheim: Fowler, Lindholm, Manson (6th rd)
Arizona: OEL
Boston: McAvoy
Buffalo: Dahlin, mayyybe Ristolainen
Calgary: Giordano (Undrafted FA), Brodie (4th rd), Hamonic (Trade), Hanifin (Trade)
Carolina: Hamilton (Trade), Slavvin (4th rd), Pesce (3rd rd), Faulk (2nd rd)
Colorado: Girard (Trade), Barrie (3rd rd)
Columbus: Jones (Trade), Werenski
Chicago: Jokiharju
Dallas: Heiskanen, Klingberg (5th rd), Lindell (3rd rd)
Detroit: Cholowski
Edmonton: Klefbom
Florida: Ekblad, Yandle (UFA)
LA: Doughty
Minnesota: Suter (UFA), Dumba
Nashville: Josi (2nd rd), Subban (Trade), Ekholm (4th rd), Ellis
New Jersey: Vatanen (Trade)
Islanders: Leddy (Trade)
Ottawa: Chabot
Philadelphia: Provorov, Gostisbehere (3rd rd)
Pittsburgh: Letang (2nd rd)
San Jose: Karlsson (Trade), Burns (Trade), Vlasic (2nd rd)
St. Louis: Pietrangelo, Parayko (3rd rd)
Tampa Bay: Hedman, McDonagh (Trade)
Toronto: Rielly
Vegas: Theodore, Miller, Schmidt (Expansion)
Washington: Carlson
Winnipeg: Trouba, Morrisey, Byfuglien (Trade)

So teams mostly get them through the draft, and usually 1st round picks. Seems like that's the way to go. Top D can step in at 19 or 20 and be top pair right away.

 

[Javaman]

Our D hasn't been very good for years now even when everyone is fully healthy (which is a rarity). I think the D needs to be completely revamped and it's time to change for the sake of change. I think management needs to look beyond the individual players in a vacuum because if you're just looking at individual players, Edler is still a top 4 Dman. Tanev is a 1st pairing Dman at his best and a top 4 Dman when he's not. Advanced stats suggests that Hutton is a top 4 Dman. Stecher was/is too. Yet is the D any good with all 4 of those guys in the lineup? Not at all.

The problem of course is a lack of options. Quinn Hughes should arrive next year and if he doesn't bring immediate returns he is no doubt a building block for the future. But that's not going to be enough. There aren't any Dmen we can draft in the 2019 draft that can or you want stepping in immediately. Unless Juolevi fixes his knee and takes some huge steps in development, he's not a top 4 Dman in the NHL.

Edler will actually be one of the best Dman available on the UFA market if he reaches free agency, do you bring him back? Erik Karlsson is obviously the big name if he reaches free agency but he's unlikely to sign here and even if he does he's unlikely to get less or much less than Doughty money at 29 years of age.

This past summer, I wanted the Canucks to look into signing a guy like De Haan but would he have made a difference? He would have been an upgrade over Del Zotto. Is that the path? Add good 2nd pairing Dmen at an affordable price? If that's the case, do you re-sign Edler?

There's always the trade market. Tyson Barrie will be entering his last year of his contract and if the Avs can't re-sign him they may trade him. Justin Faulk may be available but I'm not sure the Canucks can re-sign him.

What can the Canucks do? Just build the D through the draft?

Better question would be... which of the current Canucks defense corps is worth keeping versus their value in picks/prospects?

I honestly can't think of a defenseman that is untradeable.

In contrast, I think Horvat, Boeser, and Petterson untouchable in trade talks.

 

[HelloCookie]

This is a quick train of thought from someone who doesn't believe in blowing things completely up. I don't think Karlsson has any urge to sign in Vancouver so I've not included him, or his massive contract.

I suppose Edler is staying put this season and hopefully signs to a reasonable 1-3 year contract afterwards. I don't think Tanev will be traded either, even though he could bring in some useful pieces, but I'm not having high hopes. With this in mind, I'd keep them with Hutton and maybe stecher. Gudbranson is going to be around no matter what, so he's in the mix too. If Hughes jumps in, the top six would be:

Edler - Stecher
Hutton - Gudbranson
Hughes - Tanev

In order to get rid of the throbbing headache, we trade stecher or Gudbranson for Wingers or picks, so that we won't begin to form a migraine. Then we sign Strålman or Barrie for a reasonable 2 year contract.

Edler - Stecher
Hutton - Strålman/Barrie
Hughes - Tanev

Then we keep developing our current prospects, and pick new ones to develop. We keep sending gifts, and telling nice things to Tryamkin. If Strålman is not available for us, (we do NOT sign someone like Petrovic instead) maybe get someone from the KHL or european leagues to work as a stopgap, and/or an injury fill in. And there we have a bunch of top2-5 defensemen with one top2 prospct for sheltered usage.

 

[Grub]

How do we fix our defense? The first step is to cut the head of the snake, and bring in a competent GM. I still shake my head how management decided to bring back one of the worst D’s from last year and gave them raises. Lunacy.

 

[sting101]

If we had any foresight they would have stockpiled 2nd 3rd and 4th round picks and walked away every draft with 5 defenseman taken. 3 in the first 5 rounds at least.

Easily should have had a bunch of shots to land Montour Dunn Carlo Clague Girard etc and had Tkachuk and Theodore on our team with some smarts.

Oh well...as is we have to get doing this and fast before they waste Horvat and Petterssons best years.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

How do we fix our defense? The first step is to cut the head of the snake, and bring in a competent GM. I still shake my head how management decided to bring back one of the worst D’s from last year and gave them raises. Lunacy.

Right ......Fire the GM,Fire the Coach..You are the ultimate 'kneejerk" poster..we get it.

 

[Cancuks]

Trade Tanev & Edler & Badbranson (with salary retained) for as many draft picks as possible and start drafting more defensemen. To get better, we have to get much worse. Benning's flawed logic is that we need vets to ensure our youth doesn't learn how to lose. How is that working? I'd rather lose 7-5 every night than 1-0 or 2-1. At least the forwards are learning how to score. Also our goaltending is terrible, we need a legit starter who can inspire confidence in our dmen.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Patience.

Hughes, Juolevi, Woo, Rathbone, Brassard, are all developing nicely.

Trading for a defender is not worth what we will have to give up.

Signing a good one will require a big overpay.

Best to just stay the course unless you can land a Karlsson in free agency.

 

[tantalum]

Right ......Fire the GM,Fire the Coach..You are the ultimate 'kneejerk" poster..we get it.

The poster is correct in this case though. This GM has demonstrated a clear inability to assess and acquire quality D-men. He has doubled down on poor players. Such a person is unlikely to be able rebuild the biggest weakness on the team. A weakness that has been apparent for a significant amount of time. A weakness one part ignored and one part botched fixes.

 

[Ori]

Cutting a ton of dead weight would help. Biggest problem is that they came back with the exact same defence as we did last year.

Yes, and draft some good D prospects - they should try to move Lui contract among other things in an attempt to get more draft picks, or move some players with value who consider "not helping" category concerning the defense.

 

[Fire Benning]

And the problem is, it’s likely going to get even worse. Edler is pending UFA and even if he re-signs he’s injury prone and on the wrong side of 30, Tanev is a UFA after next year.

And there’s no cavalry coming up as the saviours, Juolevi isn’t trending towards becoming a top 4 guy, he might be decent on the power play but has questions defensively. Hughes projects to be better but is also more of a power play guy with the caveat of defensive shortcomings, shouldn’t be expecting him to be stalwart.

It’s unreasonable to pin all our hopes on Woo, Rathbone, Brassard etc. We’d be lucky if one of those becomes a full time NHLer. And Utica isn’t exactly plentiful right now.

You could trade or sign for a defenseman as a short term solution but you don’t want to break the bank. There are cheaper options but you’re likely not finding a true difference maker that way, and I don’t have a ton of faith in this management group’s ability to scout out quality bargain deals on the trade/free agent market given their track record in that department.

The answer is probably good drafting year in year out, doesn’t help if you constantly have less than a pick per round though, especially when some of those picks get traded for defensemen who end up worsening the problem.

 

[Pip]

Juolevi-Tanev
Olson-Forsling
Candella-Stewart
Sautner

 

[Ryp37]

If we had any foresight they would have stockpiled 2nd 3rd and 4th round picks and walked away every draft with 5 defenseman taken. 3 in the first 5 rounds at least.

Easily should have had a bunch of shots to land Montour Dunn Carlo Clague Girard etc and had Tkachuk and Theodore on our team with some smarts.

Oh well...as is we have to get doing this and fast before they waste Horvat and Petterssons best years.

Basically.

Not to mention we acquired 0 useful D or D prospects with our best trade chips.

They need to jettison the junk like Gudbranson, Pouliot etc and bring back Tryamkin to start.

 

[Grub]

Right ......Fire the GM,Fire the Coach..You are the ultimate 'kneejerk" poster..we get it.

Instead of calling posters out all the time, respond to me why you don't agree child.

 

[TruGr1t]

As noted above, you ain't seen nothing yet. The pipeline is basically empty and the only players holding this mess together (Edler and Tanev) are near the end of the road. It's basically impossible to address the problem via free agency (even if you had competent pro scouting), and the organization doesn't particularly have depth anywhere to attempt to trade for top-four defensemen (even if management was capable of identifying defensive talent and negotiating trades). That means you're left with the draft, which has been hit or miss. Plus what's the turn around time on defensive draft picks? 4-5 years minimum?

Yeah, it's going to get ugly really fast. Every time I hear someone say the Canucks could be competitive in 2-3 years I can't believe it. There is literally nothing on the blue line.

 

[Fire Benning]

As noted above, you ain't seen nothing yet. The pipeline is basically empty and the only players holding this mess together (Edler and Tanev) are near the end of the road. It's basically impossible to address the problem via free agency (even if you had competent pro scouting), and the organization doesn't particularly have depth anywhere to attempt to trade for top-four defensemen (even if management was capable of identifying defensive talent and negotiating trades). That means you're left with the draft, which has been hit or miss. Plus what's the turn around time on defensive draft picks? 4-5 years minimum?

Yeah, it's going to get ugly really fast. Every time I hear someone say the Canucks could be competitive in 2-3 years I can't believe it. There is literally nothing on the blue line.

The fact that we're in this position after almost 5 years of this management group shows how insane it is that they've somehow managed to have a deficit of picks in two drafts.

 

[BROCK HUGHES]

How do we fix our defense? The first step is to cut the head of the snake, and bring in a competent GM. I still shake my head how management decided to bring back one of the worst D’s from last year and gave them raises. Lunacy.

Agree..said at the beginning of the season..this teams defence should have been a priority fix.But bring back the same core.Beyond mind boggling.
But leaving Jim Benning in charge to fix this mess is scary enough.Need some one who is smart enough to realize that this core sucks and stop giving them chance after chance in hopes they get better..

 

[ErrantShepherd]

What can the Canucks do?

Toss the entire D Core into the sun.

...but seriously, we know what we have with Edler and Tanev. Two good, but not great Ds that are quite injury prone but settle things down when healthy.

Hutton seems like the only possible legit top four defensemen after that. Maybe Gudbranson pulls a Bieksa and turns out more valuable than his mistakes suggest with the right partner? Hutton could be that? Otherwise he doesn't play well enough to be any long term solution.

After that, I like Biega and Stecher, but they're also not solutions. They're 6-7th Dmen in a better organization... actually maybe not even that level on some nights?

MDZ is bottom pairing at best, Pouliot is playing himself off the team.

So... yeah, it's a mess right now. Hughes doesn't change that. We need at least 2-3 more players to fill these spots either at the end of this season or the next.

If the draft seems to be the most likely way to fill in these spots competently, we are in major trouble in the next few years... especially if we lose Edler and Tanev soon.

 

[bossram]

How do we fix our defense? The first step is to cut the head of the snake, and bring in a competent GM. I still shake my head how management decided to bring back one of the worst D’s from last year and gave them raises. Lunacy.

Exactly this. Benning has shown time and again he has no idea how to evaluate defensemen. The list of guys he's acquired on the blueline is...amazing in some ways: Sbisa, Larsen, Gudbranson, Pouliot, Clendening, Biega, Del Zotto, etc.

Our three best defensemen are STILL Gillis holdovers: Edler, Tanev, Hutton. The only credible defenseman Benning has ever acquired was Stecher. And it was an absolute gimme he was going to sign here.

Good call Grub. Cut the snake.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

Lol. Thread asks how we can fix the Defence.


Pessimistic posters read it as :how can we complain about the past.


My vote is for patience.

Hughes - Juolevi on the way

Woo, Brassard, Rathbone, Brisbois developing

Tanev and Edler - Hutton are fine.

Trade Guddy for picks
Trade Stecher for picks

Dont re sign MDZ or Pouliot

Sign 1 maybe 2 solid Dman.

Karlsson ? Myers? Gardiner? Stralman?

Then keep drafting and Developimg Dmen.

 

[swedehollow]

List of some studs the Canucks could use going forward, and how their team got them (Bold = 1st round pick):

Anaheim: Fowler, Lindholm, Manson (6th rd)
Arizona: OEL
Boston: McAvoy
Buffalo: Dahlin, mayyybe Ristolainen
Calgary: Giordano (Undrafted FA), Brodie (4th rd), Hamonic (Trade), Hanifin (Trade)
Carolina: Hamilton (Trade), Slavvin (4th rd), Pesce (3rd rd), Faulk (2nd rd)
Colorado: Girard (Trade), Barrie (3rd rd)
Columbus: Jones (Trade), Werenski
Chicago: Jokiharju
Dallas: Heiskanen, Klingberg (5th rd), Lindell (3rd rd)
Detroit: Cholowski
Edmonton: Klefbom
Florida: Ekblad, Yandle (UFA)
LA: Doughty
Minnesota: Suter (UFA), Dumba
Nashville: Josi (2nd rd), Subban (Trade), Ekholm (4th rd), Ellis
New Jersey: Vatanen (Trade)
Islanders: Leddy (Trade)
Ottawa: Chabot
Philadelphia: Provorov, Gostisbehere (3rd rd)
Pittsburgh: Letang (2nd rd)
San Jose: Karlsson (Trade), Burns (Trade), Vlasic (2nd rd)
St. Louis: Pietrangelo, Parayko (3rd rd)
Tampa Bay: Hedman, McDonagh (Trade)
Toronto: Rielly
Vegas: Theodore, Miller, Schmidt (Expansion)
Washington: Carlson
Winnipeg: Trouba, Morrisey, Byfuglien (Trade)

So teams mostly get them through the draft, and usually 1st round picks. Seems like that's the way to go. Top D can step in at 19 or 20 and be top pair right away.

Nashville: Josi, Subban, Ekholm and Ellis. Could that have something to do with Rinne leading the goalies in save percentage? Good luck getting those numbers on a Canucks team!

 

[Canucks1096]

Gone

Edler late 1st
MDZ 6th
Pouliot won't be resigned
Gudbranson traded but not sure for what. Jason B did say he had teams calling for him.

Signs Myers and Stralman in the off season. Hughes and Juolevi make the team

Hutton Myers
Hughes Tanev
Juolevi Stralman
Biega Stecher