How crazy is it that Ovechkin may tie Gretkzy and Bossy for most 50-goal seasons this year?

[Dessert Nights]

This makes you wonder if Gretzky could have scored 1000 goals without injuries? At least 950+ seems possible.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

I missed the thread when he passed Rick Vaive

 

[innitfam]

1 goal in 2018 and he's already there. Too bad.

 

[tapi]

It's insane. Ovechkin is the GOAT goal scorer.

Lol no, Mario was a better scorer (if you don't believe me just look a the stats) ,despite being the way more versatile player.

 

[Sam Spade]

Lol no, Mario was a better scorer (if you don't believe me just look a the stats) ,despite being the way more versatile player.

692 > 690. Those are the stats.

 

[tapi]

692 > 690. Those are the stats.

In way less games, my friend.

 

[Sam Spade]

In way less games, my friend.

Who cares?

On every list from now until the end of time Alex Ovechkin will have scored more goals during his NHL career than Mario Lemieux.

 

[RageQuit77]

Rookie goal scoring guy coming to the league needs 15 consecutive seasons of 40G to make it to the tails of Jari Kurri. Then that same guy needs two more full 40G seasons and about 2 extra months to get close Mario and OV (currently). If he started as 20yo, he would be 37yo guy to get to the same layers of stratosphere with them.

With OV his stats make it easy to forget how incredibly hard it is (and always been) score 40G in a season, and how ridiculously hard it is to maintain such level consistently (even if ignoring possible shortened seasons).

And OV flies far above such base level consistency for a goal scorer, not being 37 years old yet.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

I still think Pavel Bure was the GOAT for goal scoring, he doesn't need to have the record imo to be called the best goal scorer ever, and that doesn't mean he's the GOAT of hockey now either, but if injuries didn't ruin his career I swear he would of held the record for most goals scored right now.

Just for the record Mario was better then Gretzky, but they were both elite players no question, way ahead of their peers, which stats show.

As for Ovi, he's a pretty special player, again was a player ahead of his peers like Crosby, but the era they're playing in now is tougher imo due to the rest of the players in their league being much better all around, then back in the day. What Ovi may do is actually pretty impressive, it's a record not many thought would probably ever be broken seeing how the game was evolving to lower scoring back when he came in. It definitely easily puts him near the top as one of the GOATS of goal scoring no doubt.

 

[Randyne]

Adjusted goals:
Ovechkin 797
Lemieux 616
NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[King Mapes]

Bossy retired at 30

Yes with 2 goal scoring titles

 

[tapi]

Adjusted goals:
Ovechkin 797
Lemieux 616
NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

Even according to these fantasy "adjusted" stats:
Mario g/gp: 0,75
Ovi g/gp 0,61

It does not exactly take a rocket scientist to figure out who is the better goal scorer.

Also keep in mind, Mario lost at least four years of his prime due to injury&illness. If Ovi lost 4 prime years, even passin the 600 goals mark would have been difficult for him.

 

[Randyne]

Even according to these fantasy "adjusted" stats,
Mario g/gp: 0,75
Ovi g/gp 0,61
So it does not exactly take a rocket scientist to figure out who is the better goal scorer.

According to adjusted stats:
Ovechkin 797/1133=0.70
Lemieux 616/915=0.67

upd.

Also keep in mind, Mario lost at least four years of his prime due to injury&illness. If Ovi lost 4 prime years, even passin the 600 goals mark would have been difficult for him.

If Ovi wasn't born the 1 goal mark would have been difficult for him.

 

[Strangle]

According to adjusted stats:
Ovechkin 797/1133=0.70
Lemieux 616/915=0.67

adjusted stats are totally fantasy

 

[Midnight Judges]

I mean Gretzky scored 92 goals, Lemieux has a bunch of seasons where he scored close to 1 GPG or more. I agree it's not as simple as Gretzky deciding to "playmake" one day, and "score" another.

This poster just explained how Caps setup their powerplay around Ovechking scoring. I assume in many seasons, Gretzky was doing the opposite, he was the setup guy, vs the goal-scorer. Hence - he scored less. Because he was more valuable that way.

It doesn't take anything away from Ovechkin. But to claim Lemieux and especially Gretzky couldn't have scored more goals if they weren't relied on so heavily as playmakers is just arguing in bad faith.

Gretzky’s shot was not nearly good enough for him to do what Ovie does.

 

[Randyne]

adjusted stats are totally fantasy

They are based on one simple concept: all NHL seasons are equal. Of course it's simplify things, because today's NHL would crash NHL from the 80s with modern technology and worldwide talents. That's why these adjusted stats hurt more modern super athletes than athletes from the past.

 

[Windy River]

I’d say moderately crazy. Like crazier than the Leafs blowing a 3 goal 3rd period lead to the Bruins but not Trump being President level of crazy.

 

[Strangle]

They are based on one simple concept: all NHL seasons are equal. Of course it's simplify things, because today's NHL would crash NHL from the 80s with modern technology and worldwide talents. That's why these adjusted stats hurt more modern super athletes than athletes from the past.

They are designed to normalize outliers.

The only reason adjusted stats are even a thing is to try to normalize Gretzky and, to a lesser extent, Lemieux's mind boggling (for any era) stats.

They begin with the premise of “Crosby can’t be that far behind Gretzky, he’s so good at hockey. Must be something we can adjust for to make them look how I imagine they should look. We will just make Crosby’s points equal 1.37 points each and Gretzky’s 0.62 each and that should line them up better”

Outliers don’t need to be normalized because they were outliers then just as much as they are now. Adjusted stats fans just can’t wrap their heads around a 200 point season in the nhl, so they weight it as a 140 point season instead.

 

[Hivemind]

Bossy retired at 30

And Ovie lost 1.5 seasons to lockouts.

 

[5 Minute Major]

How crazy is it that Ovechkin has already taken 400 plus more shots than Wayne Gretzky took in Gretzky’s entire career yet is still more than 200 goals behind the Great One?

 

[Madifer]

How crazy is it that Ovechkin has already taken 400 plus more shots than Wayne Gretzky took in Gretzky’s entire career yet is still more than 200 goals behind the Great One?

Successful spammers are successful :я

 

[Randyne]

They begin with the premise of “Crosby can’t be that far behind Gretzky, he’s so good at hockey. Must be something we can adjust for to make them look how I imagine they should look. We will just make Crosby’s points equal 1.37 points each and Gretzky’s 0.62 each and that should line them up better”

What? Where did you get it from? That's your fantasy. No one gets special benefit.
All the seasons were equalized on 6 goals per game:
Adjusted Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

In order to account for different schedule lengths, roster sizes, and scoring environments, some statistics have been adjusted. All statistics have been adjusted to an 82-game schedule with a maximum roster size of 18 skaters and league averages of 6 goals per game and 1.67 assists per goal.
Adjusted Goals
We will use Gordie Howe's 1952-53 season as an example, a season in which Howe scored a career-high 49 goals.
The first step in this process is to calculate a schedule adjustment for each player. In order to do this, divide 82 by the number of scheduled games per team. In 1952-53 the NHL played a 70-game schedule, so the schedule adjustment is 82 / 70 = 1.17.
The roster size adjustment is computed by dividing the maximum roster size for the season in question by 18. Teams were allowed to carry a maximum of 16 skaters at home and 15 skaters on the road during the 1952-53 season, so the roster size adjustment is 15.5 / 18 = 0.86.
Next calculate the era adjustment, which we will do by dividing 6 by the league average goals per game without the player in question. In 1952-53 a total of 1006 goals were scored in 210 games. Without Howe this works out to (1006 - 49) / 210 = 4.56 goals per game, so our era adjustment is 6 / 4.56 = 1.32.
Finally, we put everything together. Take the player's actual goals and multiply by the adjustments we computed above. For Howe in 1952-53 this is 49 * 1.17 * 0.86 * 1.32 = 65 adjusted goals.

Adjusted Assists
Once again we will use Howe's 1952-53 season, when Howe had 46 assists, as an example.
First compute the schedule and roster size adjustments as above. The era adjustment is found by dividing 10 (which is the product of 6 goals per game and 1.67 assists per goal) by the league average assists per game without the player in question. In 1952-53 a total of 1513 assists were awarded in 210 games. Without Howe this works out to (1513 - 46) / 210 = 6.99 assists per game, so our era adjustment is 10 / 6.99 = 1.43.
Adjusted assists are then computed by multiplying the player's actual assists by the three adjustments. For Howe we get 46 * 1.17 * 0.86 * 1.43 = 66 adjusted assists.
Adjusted Points

Adjusted points are simply the sum of adjusted goals and adjusted assists.

 

[JerseyMike34]

Sure...and then you factor in Bossy-era cardboard figure goalies, small goalie equipment, lack of systematic shot blocking and undeveloped team defensive systems in general....

I know right! It's almost like it's really stupid to try and compare eras!

 

[Hivemind]

How crazy is it that Ovechkin has already taken 400 plus more shots than Wayne Gretzky took in Gretzky’s entire career yet is still more than 200 goals behind the Great One?

Being able to generate shots is a good thing. If we were judging goal scoring purely on shooting%, Andrew Brunette would be one of the greatest goal scorers of all time.

 

[JerseyMike34]

Press play.

This proves one thing to me....

Vanek doesn't get enough love.