How crazy is it that Ovechkin may tie Gretkzy and Bossy for most 50-goal seasons this year?

[Cobra Commander]

It’s not that crazy at all. Go look at Gretzky’s goal highlights reel, complete garbage that would never work today.

 

[Strangle]

To put this in perspective, Auston Matthews (pretty good goal scorer) would need to score 50 goals in each of the next 15 seasons to get to 892.

what Ovechkin has a chance to accomplish is absolutely insane.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

It’s not that crazy at all. Go look at Gretzky’s goal highlights reel, complete garbage that would never work today.

And Citizen Kane was totally old and black and white and boring. The cinematography aged poorly and its like totally not modern. Worst movie ever.

 

[bobholly39]

Uh, yeah, you are, mate.

I don't know if that's fair. Gretzky and Lemieux are such unique talents that you have to account for their capabilities. I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe that they both had the ability to score more goals if they "playmaked" less. Moreso than Ovechkin (since they're both much better playmakers).

It doesn't mean you have to give them credit for unscored goals. Ovechkin is, or will be the GOAT goal-scorers based on all his rockets, career totals, etc. Fully warranted and earned.

But in a separate discussion about the "best" goal scorer - I think taking the above into consideration for Lemieux/Gretzky makes sense. Whether it's enough to deem them as "better goal-scorers" than Ovi is up to you. I still take Lemieux as the best ever.

 

[bobholly39]

And Citizen Kane was totally old and black and white and boring. The cinematography aged poorly and its like totally not modern. Worst movie ever.

I actually agree with this statement, literally.

Somehow - I don't think that's the point you were trying to make though...

 

[kingsholygrail]

How many of those goals are somewhere other than the left circle?

 

[AaronTrieu]

I’m not surprised. He is a prolific scorer

 

[Paperbagofglory]

I actually agree with this statement, literally.

Somehow - I don't think that's the point you were trying to make though...

I am sure you can read between the lines if you are smart enough.

Hmm on second thought i should just tell you. Something that's older and out of date and seems of lower quality does not diminish its accomplishments and accolades in the past. Sports have advanced, equipment is lighter, therefore skilled players thrive.

If you look at something through today's lens and judge it by 2020 standards then those people are idiots.

 

[RageQuit77]

How many of those goals are somewhere other than the left circle?

Good comment and charts about that here: Ovechkin passes Selanne for career goals then Super Mario. Now tied with Yzerman. 2 behind Messier by @Kugelbahn

Original source of charts here: IcyData » Alex Ovechkin Stats

So answer to your question is about 15-20% or less depending on how strick you want to be with that "the left circle". Most of his goals are scored nowhere near from his office.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I don't know if that's fair. Gretzky and Lemieux are such unique talents that you have to account for their capabilities. I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe that they both had the ability to score more goals if they "playmaked" less. Moreso than Ovechkin (since they're both much better playmakers).

It doesn't mean you have to give them credit for unscored goals. Ovechkin is, or will be the GOAT goal-scorers based on all his rockets, career totals, etc. Fully warranted and earned.

But in a separate discussion about the "best" goal scorer - I think taking the above into consideration for Lemieux/Gretzky makes sense. Whether it's enough to deem them as "better goal-scorers" than Ovi is up to you. I still take Lemieux as the best ever.

I think why i consider Gretzky/Lemieux better goal scorers is they were they the #1 goal scorer in their prime while also being the #1 playmaker. Their primary focus wasn't even being a goal scorer and they are right there with Ovechkin. A similar contemporary player would be someone with Ovechkin's peak goal scoring and Thornton's peak playmaking.

 

[Cobra Commander]

And Citizen Kane was totally old and black and white and boring. The cinematography aged poorly and its like totally not modern. Worst movie ever.

Dude come on. Ever heard of rule #99 ? Sure you have, it’s the rule where nobody was allowed to touch Gretzky, when he got hit too hard he would cry to the refs and leave the game, players have been throw out of the league for hitting him. He was also the weakest player in the league, he could barely bench 150. Greatest perimeter lollipop dangler of all time. Go look at Lemieux’s highlights, he could power his way threw 3 players hacking/hooking/slashing him and score a highlight reel goal by himself. In today’s game Lemieux could get 200 points.

Put Gretzky in today’s hockey and last decade:

Crosby > Gretzky
McDavid > Gretzky

Easily, and the list can go on. There’s no way Gretzky would have been able to take the kind of abuse Crosby did.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

I think why i consider Gretzky/Lemieux better goal scorers is they were they the #1 goal scorer in their prime while also being the #1 playmaker. Their primary focus wasn't even being a goal scorer and they are right there with Ovechkin. A similar contemporary player would be someone with Ovechkin's peak goal scoring and Thornton's peak playmaking.

As much as i complain about the NHL, a player like that is eventually going to surface and its going to be glorious to watch. We are due for another Gretzky, and no i don't think its Mcdavid, great as he is.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Dude come on. Ever heard of rule #99 ? Sure you have, it’s the rule where nobody was allowed to touch Gretzky, when he got hit too hard he would cry to the refs and leave the game, players have been throw out of the league for hitting him. He was also the weakest player in the league, he could barely bench 150. Greatest perimeter lollipop dangler of all time. Go look at Lemieux’s highlights, he could power his way threw 3 players hacking/hooking/slashing him and score a highlight reel goal by himself. In today’s game Lemieux could get 200 points.

Put Gretzky in today’s hockey and last decade:

Crosby > Gretzky
McDavid > Gretzky

Easily, and the list can go on. There’s no way Gretzky would have been able to take the kind of abuse Crosby did.

It's absolutely surreal to see this argument set up so that Crosby is the tough guy who played through everything without crying to the refs or drawing phantom penalties.

MAN do times ever change.

 

[al secord]

Records were made to be said that they'll never be broken .

 

[tarheelhockey]

Anyway, I do think we're going to appreciate what Ovi's doing a LOT more after he's gone. When Gretzky retired and Lemieux was hanging on by a thread, everyone thought it would just roll right into Lindros or Jagr as the next record-shattering GOAT contender, and some prospect like Lecavalier or Thornton would come along after that and do them one better, and it would just keep going.

Turns out it doesn't work that way. The next time we even got a sniff of a sense that a player was on the Gretzky/Lemieux level was when Crosby came into the league, and that led right into 5 years of injury troubles.

Here we are, it's over 20 years later, and we're just starting to see Ovechkin finally gaining consensus as a top-tier all time goal scorer (not overall player, but goal scorer). And this phase will be over soon enough, leaving us looking around again. Enjoy it while it lasts, this is one of those rare generational experiences.

 

[txpd]

I don't know if that's fair. Gretzky and Lemieux are such unique talents that you have to account for their capabilities. I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe that they both had the ability to score more goals if they "playmaked" less. Moreso than Ovechkin (since they're both much better playmakers).

This is a crock. CROCK. Ovechkin isn't a unique talent? Amazing the shit people can convince themselves of. Ovechkin is a brilliant playmaker. He doesn't use the skill as much as a center because his job is different. The team's power play is designed to get him the shot. No one else on that unit is positioned to shoot from Ovechkin's pass. None of them are allowed to screen the goalie and deflect his shot because a clean beat is more likely. They are there to pass him the puck and retrieve his shots so he can shoot it again.

This is as good a play made as can be done

 

[bobbyking]

Pretty crazy, if you ask me.

He'll also take sole possession of 2nd place for most 40 goals seasons (1 season behind Gretzky) and 2nd place for most 30-goal seasons (1 season behind Mike Gartner).

He's on pace for 57 goals this year, btw.

One goal record Ovechkin may not break is Gretzky's career short-handed goals record:

Gretzky: 74

Ovechkin: 4

74 shortys? WTF who is 2nd?

 

[bobholly39]

This is a crock. CROCK. Ovechkin isn't a unique talent? Amazing the **** people can convince themselves of. Ovechkin is a brilliant playmaker. He doesn't use the skill as much as a center because his job is different. The team's power play is designed to get him the shot. No one else on that unit is positioned to shoot from Ovechkin's pass. None of them are allowed to screen the goalie and deflect his shot because a clean beat is more likely. They are there to pass him the puck and retrieve his shots so he can shoot it again.

This is as good a play made as can be done

You're getting all bent out of shape for no reason.

Yes - Gretzky/Lemieux are unique talents. The 2 most talented forwards in the history of the NHL, very easily so. Do you actually disagree? Ovechkin is special too - but nothing wrong with labeling Gretzky/Lemieux as more unique, which they are

I never claimed Ovi wasn't a good playmaker. I just said the other 2 are much better (and they are).

 

[BackToTheBasics]

I normally don't like what-if scenarios but it's pretty amazing to think had he scored one more goal in 2018 and had the opportunity to play a full season in 2013, this would likely be his 11th 50 goal season.

 

[bobholly39]

74 shortys? WTF who is 2nd?

According to this list he only has 73, not 74. Messier is second with 63, than Yzerman with 50, followed by Lemieux at 49. Everyone else below 40

 

[Paperbagofglory]

74 shortys? WTF who is 2nd?

Messier at 63. Because of the Oilers penalty kill and powerplay proficiency the NHL changed the rules regarding coincidental minors. They were too good at 4 on 4 so offsetting minors led to 5 on 5 instead.

I have to wonder how many of their insane PP stats were on 4 on 3 situations in the early days of the dynasty.

 

[shtorm2005]

So unfair to compare Ovy stats to past time star players when they wouldn't score as much in modern hockey. They're great playmakers that will allow them to win art ross every season, but at scoring goals, best is Ovy.

 

[Strangle]

Dude come on. Ever heard of rule #99 ? Sure you have, it’s the rule where nobody was allowed to touch Gretzky, when he got hit too hard he would cry to the refs and leave the game, players have been throw out of the league for hitting him. He was also the weakest player in the league, he could barely bench 150. Greatest perimeter lollipop dangler of all time. Go look at Lemieux’s highlights, he could power his way threw 3 players hacking/hooking/slashing him and score a highlight reel goal by himself. In today’s game Lemieux could get 200 points.

Put Gretzky in today’s hockey and last decade:

Crosby > Gretzky
McDavid > Gretzky

Easily, and the list can go on. There’s no way Gretzky would have been able to take the kind of abuse Crosby did.

great players change how the entire league operates.

Pre-Gretzky NHL goals per game were mostly around 3.0 and peaked at 3.5 before Gretzky entered the league. Once Gretzky arrived, goals per game hovered a lot closer to 4.0, surpassing that even.

As Gretzky declined, and eventually retired, goals per game came back down to 3.0 then below.

Those of us who got to watch him knew that Gretzky stirred the drink of the entire league, changed how teams prepared and played and still his stats cannot be adjusted to come back down to earth no matter how many limitations or adjustments are made.

Crosby didn’t change the league, mcdavid hasn’t changed the league, but Gretzky and lemieux and Orr certainly did.

saying Gretzky is a result of a changing league conveniently ignores that Gretzky is basically the reason the league changed in the first place. Without Gretzky, you don’t see 4.0 goals per game averages

 

[Paperbagofglory]

great players change how the entire league operates.

Pre-Gretzky NHL goals per game were mostly around 3.0 and peaked at 3.5 before Gretzky entered the league. Once Gretzky arrived, goals per game hovered a lot closer to 4.0, surpassing that even.

As Gretzky declined, and eventually retired, goals per game came back down to 3.0 then below.

Those of us who got to watch him knew that Gretzky stirred the drink of the entire league, changed how teams prepared and played and still his stats cannot be adjusted to come back down to earth no matter how many limitations or adjustments are made.

Crosby didn’t change the league, mcdavid hasn’t changed the league, but Gretzky and lemieux and Orr certainly did.

saying Gretzky is a result of a changing league conveniently ignores that Gretzky is basically the reason the league changed in the first place. Without Gretzky, you don’t see 4.0 goals per game averages

While Gretzky was a big reason for the change, not enough credit goes to Glen Sather and the Oilers for how they approached drafting. They went with mostly all skill and speed and they left the 70's behind where clubs were still trying to emulate the broad street bullies. The Jets passed on Gretzky because they said he was too small, a lot of teams would have passed on him based on how insanely rough and violent 70's hockey was.

Glen Sather was the real architect, Gretzky was the foundation. The Oilers brought full on European hockey to the NHL and a lot of owners were hesitant and actually hated the Oilers for being the cause of a huge influx of drafting European talent. The so called Don Cherry opinion that they would ruin the game of hockey unlike those good Canadian kids.

 

[Cobra Commander]

great players change how the entire league operates.

Pre-Gretzky NHL goals per game were mostly around 3.0 and peaked at 3.5 before Gretzky entered the league. Once Gretzky arrived, goals per game hovered a lot closer to 4.0, surpassing that even.

As Gretzky declined, and eventually retired, goals per game came back down to 3.0 then below.

Those of us who got to watch him knew that Gretzky stirred the drink of the entire league, changed how teams prepared and played and still his stats cannot be adjusted to come back down to earth no matter how many limitations or adjustments are made.

Crosby didn’t change the league, mcdavid hasn’t changed the league, but Gretzky and lemieux and Orr certainly did.

saying Gretzky is a result of a changing league conveniently ignores that Gretzky is basically the reason the league changed in the first place. Without Gretzky, you don’t see 4.0 goals per game averages

Look man, his numbers and records are garbage. That’s the truth. You can add a huge * to all of them. He was a great passer that’s it. He couldn’t hold Lemieux or Ovechkin’s jock strap when it comes to goal scoring. Go look at his highlights, it’s not good.