How Confident Are You In Babcock?

How Confident Are You in Babcock? (Read)


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FabledKnight

Registered User
Feb 20, 2008
642
126
so.... who coached team canada, and the world cup team?
Babcock did.

so obviously he can coach higher end players and let the skill play. geeze.

blaming the coach because the players on the ice can't start on time is so dumb.

Babs also had great coaches with him on those teams.
Players constantly starting slow and a poor power play is on the coach, the coaching staff and management as well.

If this was the first season where after losses he came out saying we didnt start then I'll think players are at fault for various reason. But it's been more than a season and more than a handful of losses.

Just my opinion. I'm optimistic that this team will figure it out, but I'm not as optimistic then I was at the start of the season.
 

GoonieFace

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
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I'll say no confidence.

It seems in every game the Leafs aren't ready to play. Slow starts. Then there is the stretch pass. Poor defensive systems. No change to the pp after 3 months of low production.

Babs is good with mid to low tier players. Gets the best out of them (see his first year here) but with talent, he cant seem to adjust and let the skill play.


Also I'll throw a bit of shade to Dubas. We need a Power forward.

Yeah he got nothing out of Lidstrom, Datsyuk and Zetterberg., guys a bum
 

FabledKnight

Registered User
Feb 20, 2008
642
126
One can argue he didnt get the best. Once Lidstrom retired they couldn't get past the first round.

I also never called Babs a bum or think he is a bum. I was very very on board with his hire. Loved the move. But we have to look at the team and how they play at face value.
 

PromisedLand

I need more FOOD
Dec 3, 2016
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Just out of curiosity

when Crosby and Malkin and co. make 2 SCF appearances and win a cup with Bylsma;

and the Leafs have recorded two first round exits with Babcock;

does that mean Bylsma >>>> Babcock?

Can Bylsma lead Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri, Tavares, Rielly etcc.... to the promised land because it is up to the coach and not the players to really show up and compete?
 

RLF

Registered User
May 5, 2014
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I have noticed a move away from the stretch pass a bit lately. It is not gone, but we are coming back in support more and hitting the neutral zone with speed instead. We seem to be relying on the stretch pass less. Hope they keep up the more balanced breakouts and not head back to solely stretch passing again. Too much stretch pass had a lot to do with our bad ``stretch`` in Dec and Jan. imo
 

GodEmperor

Registered User
Oct 12, 2017
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Muzzin seems to think the Leafs have good coaching, but Zeke knows better :rolleyes: lol



A player says a coach is good?

Damn, he must be legit!

NHL players are usually known for their blistering honesty and desire to call out coaches.

Babcock's doing real good tonight, outplayed by 2/3 of the worst teams in the league, a 500 team in the last two and a half months and getting owned by garbage like Arizona, Florida, Ottawa, Detroit, St Louis and other teams we should crush 6-1.
 

kfox

Registered User
Dec 23, 2011
241
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A player says a coach is good?

Damn, he must be legit!

NHL players are usually known for their blistering honesty and desire to call out coaches.

Babcock's doing real good tonight, outplayed by 2/3 of the worst teams in the league, a 500 team in the last two and a half months and getting owned by garbage like Arizona, Florida, Ottawa, Detroit, St Louis and other teams we should crush 6-1.
Vs. Ottawa, how is it you allow 44 shots against at home to the worst team in the league? Watch Babs post game news conference, you can see he was embarrassed-- likely for how badly he has this team prepared
 

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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One can argue he didnt get the best. Once Lidstrom retired they couldn't get past the first round.
Once Lidström retired, Detroit had a really bad roster. He still managed to get them to the playoffs year after year. Some of those last years should have been Buffalo bad considering the roster.

And I don't understand the idea that Babcock hasn't gotten the most out of high talent players. Let's ignore how well the team is doing, and look at the highly talented players he's had to coach so far:
Kadri - Excelling to a completely different level compared to pre-Babcock.
Rielly - Same
Matthews - Lived up to all his potential.
Marner - Lived up to all his potential.
Nylander - Has excelled except for his self-inflicted struggles this season.
Kapanen - Excelling now as well.

Babcock's doing real good tonight, outplayed by 2/3 of the worst teams in the league, a 500 team in the last two and a half months and getting owned by garbage like Arizona, Florida, Ottawa, Detroit, St Louis and other teams we should crush 6-1.
Thinking that any team in this league should be a rout just shows how out of sync you are with how the league is nowadays. Even the bad teams take more than a few scalps. There are no easy, obvious wins anymore.

Vs. Ottawa, how is it you allow 44 shots against at home to the worst team in the league? Watch Babs post game news conference, you can see he was embarrassed-- likely for how badly he has this team prepared
Getting shots on net and creating offense hasn't been Ottawa's problem. Defense has, and it showed.
 

GodEmperor

Registered User
Oct 12, 2017
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Once Lidström retired, Detroit had a really bad roster. He still managed to get them to the playoffs year after year. Some of those last years should have been Buffalo bad considering the roster.

And I don't understand the idea that Babcock hasn't gotten the most out of high talent players. Let's ignore how well the team is doing, and look at the highly talented players he's had to coach so far:
Kadri - Excelling to a completely different level compared to pre-Babcock.
Rielly - Same
Matthews - Lived up to all his potential.
Marner - Lived up to all his potential.
Nylander - Has excelled except for his self-inflicted struggles this season.
Kapanen - Excelling now as well.


Thinking that any team in this league should be a rout just shows how out of sync you are with how the league is nowadays. Even the bad teams take more than a few scalps. There are no easy, obvious wins anymore.


Getting shots on net and creating offense hasn't been Ottawa's problem. Defense has, and it showed.

No, this team has vastly underperformed relative to expectations, that is a fact, it shows how out of sync with reality you are if you refuse to acknowledge this.

And just LMFAO @ your player analysis, Marner and Matthews are immediately removed because everyone knew they were gonna be superstars. The fact you include Kadri is not right either when Kadri put up 44 in 48 long before Babcock and since then he has had two good years and one meh year, hardly some massive step forward all things considered.

Kapanen was literally cast off by Babcock and he was playing Komarov on the first line and in the lineup over him, it took Komarov injuring himself for him to get into the lineup. The only player there that has taken a massive step forward that wasn't really obvious is Rielly, so basically 1/6 of your list.

Why don't we talk about Brown, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Bozak and Komarov who declined under Babcock? Inb4 this magically becomes not his fault now.
 

Hockeyholic

Registered User
Apr 20, 2017
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No I don't think he's fired if they lose in round 1. If they lose in round 1 next season, then the conversation may heat up.

If you fire Babs, who is the replacement? Who out there has a resume like him? Quenneville will likely be taken by the start of the season.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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Kapanen was literally cast off by Babcock and he was playing Komarov on the first line and in the lineup over him, it took Komarov injuring himself for him to get into the lineup.

This happened and people were still in complete denial about Babcock favoring useless plugs over far superior player. This coach is a problem, and it seems like a lot more people have woken up to that this year. We were better on literally every metric when Komarov was not in the lineup yet Babcock still couldn't bring himself to go without him.
 
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Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
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This happened and people were still in complete denial about Babcock favoring useless plugs over far superior player. This coach is a problem, and it seems like a lot more people have woken up to that this year. We were better on literally every metric when Komarov was not in the lineup yet Babcock still couldn't bring himself to go without him.


Ya know what I blame Babcock too, his constant desire to coach the way he has, has resulted in these terrible metrics:
  • 33 wins - tied for 4th most in the league.
  • 17 losses - tied for 5th least in the league.
  • .651 points % 4th best in the league.
  • 0.73 SRS - 3rd best in the league.
  • 160 even strength goals - the best team in the league.
  • The least amount of penalty minutes per game at 6.1 - this can be used as a proxy to determine if players are in good defensive positioning.
  • 4th best in GF and 5th best in goals against,
2018-19 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com

He is such a problem this team is in the top five in almost EVERY team metric, shame on you Babcock for not sucking. Every possible stat would say Babcock has done an incredible job with this team but I say lets go with the always angry anonymous guy who never has anything positive to say.

Why is he a problem?
 

Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
12,349
4,559
Once Lidström retired, Detroit had a really bad roster. He still managed to get them to the playoffs year after year. Some of those last years should have been Buffalo bad considering the roster.

And I don't understand the idea that Babcock hasn't gotten the most out of high talent players. Let's ignore how well the team is doing, and look at the highly talented players he's had to coach so far:
Kadri - Excelling to a completely different level compared to pre-Babcock.
Rielly - Same
Matthews - Lived up to all his potential.
Marner - Lived up to all his potential.
Nylander - Has excelled except for his self-inflicted struggles this season.
Kapanen - Excelling now as well.


Thinking that any team in this league should be a rout just shows how out of sync you are with how the league is nowadays. Even the bad teams take more than a few scalps. There are no easy, obvious wins anymore.


Getting shots on net and creating offense hasn't been Ottawa's problem. Defense has, and it showed.


I vote Nith has to proof read everyone's post before they are allowed to post, this forum would be a much better place if people posted with the thoughtful accuracy of Nith and stop pulling opinions out of their backsides.
 

GoonieFace

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
7,293
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The Matrix
Ya know what I blame Babcock too, his constant desire to coach the way he has, has resulted in these terrible metrics:
  • 33 wins - tied for 4th most in the league.
  • 17 losses - tied for 5th least in the league.
  • .651 points % 4th best in the league.
  • 0.73 SRS - 3rd best in the league.
  • 160 even strength goals - the best team in the league.
  • The least amount of penalty minutes per game at 6.1 - this can be used as a proxy to determine if players are in good defensive positioning.
  • 4th best in GF and 5th best in goals against,
2018-19 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com

He is such a problem this team is in the top five in almost EVERY team metric, shame on you Babcock for not sucking. Every possible stat would say Babcock has done an incredible job with this team but I say lets go with the always angry anonymous guy who never has anything positive to say.

Why is he a problem?

Because a bunch of blowhards on their computers want to think they know better

Funny how all our young players have flourished under Babcock as well
 

Dough72

Registered User
Sep 3, 2008
1,937
742
a lot of the criticism on here is so illogical and so blatantly opposite of the actual type of coach he is that I suspect it's based on nothing more than his looks.
 
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Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
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Skövde, Sweden
No, this team has vastly underperformed relative to expectations, that is a fact, it shows how out of sync with reality you are if you refuse to acknowledge this.
No, that's not a fact. It's your opinion.

And what were those expectations? Because if they are vastly higher than being one of the best teams in the league at this point, then they are completely unreasonable.

And just LMFAO @ your player analysis, Marner and Matthews are immediately removed because everyone knew they were gonna be superstars. The fact you include Kadri is not right either when Kadri put up 44 in 48 long before Babcock and since then he has had two good years and one meh year, hardly some massive step forward all things considered.

Kapanen was literally cast off by Babcock and he was playing Komarov on the first line and in the lineup over him, it took Komarov injuring himself for him to get into the lineup. The only player there that has taken a massive step forward that wasn't really obvious is Rielly, so basically 1/6 of your list.
So basically Babcock can't get a lot out of highly talented players because the ones we have only became just as good as we expected? Oh, and the least talented guy on the list didn't break through to become a high-end player until 22. Yeah, that's horrible development.

Why don't we talk about Brown, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Bozak and Komarov who declined under Babcock? Inb4 this magically becomes not his fault now.
Gardiner has had his best years under Babcock.
Brown hasn't had any other coach.
Bozak performed just as always.
Zaitsev was never good to begin with.
Komarov is old and has continued his decline under the best coach in the league, which hardly is Babcock's fault.

Oh, and the argument made was that Babcock was great with everybody but high-end talent. The names you mentioned are not that, except maybe Gardiner. I find it hilarious that you come here with your LMFAO and then use Komarov of all people as an example of Babcock failing to get the most out of highly talented players.
 
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Leafsdude7

Stand-Up Philosopher
Mar 26, 2011
23,135
1,213
Ontario
Babushka is good with big egos who are already established and really good.

This is his first big test with kids. I give him passing grades so far.


And frankly we don’t know how good any of them would be without Babs. They might all have been a bust. It’s unknown. He’s the only NHL coach they have had.

Actually, he had a really good WHL/World Juniors career 20 years ago with kids. He knows how to handle them.

ETA:

To note:

1994-95 2nd round playoff exit
1995-96 lost the finals
1996-97 Won World Juniors gold, 2nd round exit
1997-98 3rd round exit
1998-99 missed playoffs
1999-00 lost the finals
 
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